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Thread: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

  1. #81
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    Icon2 Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    What? Can you read GREEK? ...
    Yes, I can, studied ancient Greek for several years. But after the long time gone it's a bit inconvenient to translate. And I don't know why this has anything to do with the topic. International language of science is mostly English. Do you intent that only persons who speak Greek are allowed to discuss with you?


    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post


    ​...
    This dagger was found in a grave in Mycene and is usually dated to the 16th century BC.

    Several of your other sources also predate the assumed period of the Troyan War, 13th to 12th century BC, for several hundreds of years. The beautiful panel of Akrotiri for example is dated to about 1600 BC. That does not tell us a lot about the Troyan War.

    BTW I like the appearance of the earlier warriors to which you mostly refer, from Middle Helladic III to Late Helladic II, much more than the ugly late Bronze Age guys who possibly fought at Troy. Let alone the stupid movie based fantasy items partly used. I'm sure many of the more humble warriors looked still similar than in earlier times, nearly naked with helmets, shield and spear, bows and slings. Or javelins and short swords, like pictures from Pylos dated around 1300 BC show.

    But some troops had seemingly changed to being armored, using round shields and throwing multi-use spears. I don't agree with Drews that such warriors defeated the armies based on chariots (which always used bows, also in Greece), shield walls and lots of archers. I think the breakdown of the old order came first, then the new tactics. What happened at Troy (Wilusa?, perhaps Troy VI, or Troy VIIa, the current favorite, destroyed around 1180 BC?) we don't know because the Iliad mixes several methods of fighting from several time periods.
    Last edited by geala; September 25, 2019 at 03:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Intriguing. loved Trojan campaigns in old RTS such as Empire Earth or Age of Mythology but mostly for the long narrative missions.

    However I am not sure if the setting could translate well in the TW sandbox formula.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    I agree. A game based on the Greco-Persian Wars (499 - 449 BC) would have suited better for the TW serie and would have offered much more options IMO.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    I agree. A game based on the Greco-Persian Wars (499 - 449 BC) would have suited better for the TW serie and would have offered much more options IMO.
    Still not enough for a proper historical TW game. It was going to be another hoplite spam scenario.

    The use of WoS's map by DEI for their Macedonian Wars is by far the best idea I've seen.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Greeks and no naval battles? A feeble excuse of not being enough data about the naval battles at the time???? Just man up and come clean you won't ever do naval battles again.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Greeks and no naval battles? A feeble excuse of not being enough data about the naval battles at the time???? Just man up and come clean you won't ever do naval battles again.
    +1

    I can understand that in three kingdoms, even though china of that time had navies and that be an awesome addition to the game, but ok 90% of the map is land, so fine.
    But here half the map is water and nothing happens on this half the map.

    I am waiting to see how they butcher the diplomacy. If it's as dumb as in Warhammer then why bother it'll just be warhammer without monsters and magic.

    And most probably there will be no family trees.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    New article from pcgamesn:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-s...ames-interview

    Lesson from ToB
    -resource system
    -endgame

    -minor settlements now providing different resources instead of different income
    -recruitment system will be abandoned, it is back to older/WH style not like ToB/3K with units started at partial health

    -6 agent types. 3 common like Spy, Priestess (gods and favour system), Envoy and then 3 not leveling epic ones like Seer - important for quests which will affect conflict between gods and favour system for all factions, (two more epic agents)

    -certain number of points of interest around the map, control will get different gameplay affects
    -for example Aeneas can speak with dead (or can he?) So holding region with Tomb of Hercules -> bestow his wisdom upon his troops (he is leading Dardania faction near Troy)

    -Achilles, Odysseus, and the two brothers Agamemnon and Menelaus as the most vital to the story
    -Ajax might be DLC, discussion about...

    -three theories about Trojan horse so the game has three representations for it. One is Earthquake as Posioden is god for god of sea and lord earthquakes. There will be events like this leaving Troy with damaged buildings, walls for period of time..

    -Sandbox game. Acheans are supposed to band together and attack but it is possible to be renegade as Achilles or turn on family like Hector

    -endgame mechanics will appoint suitable faction to be endgame boss depending on player campaign. Faction will receive buffs and more unpredictable AI. Special interface hinting on what the rival might do.

    -no hero duel system. It is just more flashy animations. But they got certain abilities to use. For example "challange" to lock characters in combat for certain period of time...
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  8. #88

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    This is sounding more and more retarded with each sharing. It doesn't even sound like a TW game anymore.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Hopefully they're just getting all the mythical hero stuff out of their system while they are coming out of the three kingdoms era and warhamner.

    Also gib bronze age. Where my Egyptians and Babylonians at.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    The sad thing is Troy is going to "count" as a "Bronze Era" game and they are not going to develop a truly historical title. Unfortunately, it would have been interesting what an end game that would be with the Bronze Age Dark age looming. We are stuck with a battle that probably never happened anything close to what the story says.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Well with those info the campaign map will be probably very similar to Wrath of the Sparta. Egypt, Hittite empire, Babylon and Dark Age Collapse would require whole Middle East map and that would be a lot resources. On opposite side, CA already release a few DLCs/games in very similar time frame (ToB/ Attila DLC) so who knows. Definitely I would not be expecting Egyptians here at all...
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    There's a bit of contradiction between sandbox game and three ways to occupy Troy/late-game boss. I find the latter especially alien to the essential concepts of strategy video-games, in general, and the Total War franchise, in particular. A bit weird they removed the recruitment system of Throb, as it was one of the few (perhaps the only) feature that was actually praised for adding realism. The number of agents also seems rather excessive, although I hope that the introduction of envoys means that the old diplomatic system of Rome I and Medieval II is back, instead of its absurd current iteration, which reminds me of Skype chatting. Pretty doubtful, but you never know. Anyway, judging from the 2d art, it is confirmed that Penthesilea will not be playable in the beginning (most probably, she will be part of the first DLC together with Ajax) and that Paris will be separate from Hector. Not sure, however, whether Troy will be divided into two or three (Hector, Paris, Priam) different groups. So, the 8 starting factions will be composed of Agamemnon, Achilles, Odysseus, Menelaus, Hector, Paris, Aeneas and an eighth gentleman, who will be either Memnon or, most likely, Sarpedon of Lycia.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The sad thing is Troy is going to "count" as a "Bronze Era" game and they are not going to develop a truly historical title. Unfortunately, it would have been interesting what an end game that would be with the Bronze Age Dark age looming. We are stuck with a battle that probably never happened anything close to what the story says.
    Maybe Total War just isn't for you anymore.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The sad thing is Troy is going to "count" as a "Bronze Era" game and they are not going to develop a truly historical title. Unfortunately, it would have been interesting what an end game that would be with the Bronze Age Dark age looming. We are stuck with a battle that probably never happened anything close to what the story says.
    And if there's another Bronze Age game, it'll probably be based on the Bible or some other BS myth.
    Honestly I wouldn't count on ever getting a semi-accurate TW game on any historical era. There are glaring issues that have plagued every TW title since at least Rome I (the earliest one I've played), and probably before. Well at least "3K" and "Troy" are a break from the boring Warhammer scenario.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    The number of agents also seems rather excessive, although I hope that the introduction of envoys means that the old diplomatic system of Rome I and Medieval II is back, instead of its absurd current iteration, which reminds me of Skype chatting...
    The diplomatic system of Rome I and Med II was unrealistic nonsense with journeys from several years from Rome to Antiochia, while in reality the journey would only last 18 days via ship.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    There are only three common agent types. And the last three are epic variants in my eyes. Or special characters for game related stuff like quests. So the amount is not excessive in that term.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The sad thing is Troy is going to "count" as a "Bronze Era" game and they are not going to develop a truly historical title. Unfortunately, it would have been interesting what an end game that would be with the Bronze Age Dark age looming. We are stuck with a battle that probably never happened anything close to what the story says.
    True enough, I would love a "real" bronze era game, similar to that of Chariots of War.


    -no hero duel system. It is just more flashy animations. But they got certain abilities to use. For example "challange" to lock characters in combat for certain period of time...
    edit:
    I should preface this by explaining I never played Three Kingdoms as the time period doesn't interest me.

    I'm not really sure what the duel system was like in the first place, but one thing I truly want to see is heroes with equipment you can modify, change, upgrade and have their stats affected by.

    A great loot system done correctly would add some more "personality" to the heroes and let you modify or make up your own stories as you go along about them. Seeing their battle model change would be great, according to the type of equipment they receive (this is easily doable by CA, the technology has been there for that since M2TW, they just never used it.)

    In fact I am somewhat puzzled as to why they haven't done this, it'd be a feature they could talk about, as everyone would be interested in adding a bit of personality to their heroes via loot on the battle model of the hero itself.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    I read two other articles or sub-articles i missed them originally..

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-saga-troy/endgame

    Nikolov says “obviously we wanted an endgame challenge that keeps the game interesting rather than it becoming a grind, and we took a look at every solution in Total War so far, including the map invasion in Warhammer and the realm divide in Shogun 2.” Troy’s system “sort of resembles the realm divide,” except that the focal point of your opposition will be a single character.
    To me this is mostly resembling FotS Realm Divided. There are two power blocks - Shogunate vs Emperor and once player reach certain treshold, he is nominated as Vanguard for his side while opposite most powerful clan is changed into Vanguard faction for his side. Or player can try to break free and fight all...

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-saga-troy/gameplay

    Nowhere is this approach more clear than in the game’s interpretations of the gods. Yes, they will ‘exist’ – specifically, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Poseidon, Aphrodite, Hera, and Zeus – and you’ll gain or lose their approval through your actions, but they won’t have a material impact on the game. Instead, they will affect people, like your troops and other faction leaders. If you’re favoured by Ares, for instance, your units will gain morale, believing that the god of war himself is on their side. It’s an entirely credible representation of phenomena which didn’t physically exist, yet had a very real impact, and will do in the game.

    Nikolov says a number of innovations from Three Kingdoms will be carried over to Troy: “for example, we have recreated some diplomacy-related features which the players really liked. Some quality-of-life stuff.”

    But leave diplomacy to megalomaniac wimps like Agamemnon, as Achilles might say. For most of those characters, their reason for being is to fight. In more elegant extensions of sensibilities developed in Three Kingdoms, expect these legendary heroes to have unique units, battlefield abilities, and wide-ranging campaign mechanics.


    Achilles, for instance, can recruit the widest variety of elite attacking units, including his uniques: the Myrmidons. His thirst for glory grants character loyalty, cheaper units, and greater diplomatic influence as he slays other characters who might challenge his supremacy, while his ‘hot blooded’ mechanic mechanises his infamous mood swings: if he’s ever insulted, expect penalties in diplomacy and trade while he sulks.

    Armies are dominated by infantry, and accordingly CA promises a more granular focus on infantry tactics and troop types. Both mud and long grass have been added as battlefield terrain types as part of this, with the former impeding movement especially for heavy troops, and the latter enabling certain light troops to hide.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    This is sounding more and more retarded with each sharing. It doesn't even sound like a TW game anymore.
    So, what is a Total War game?

    Which game is a Total War game?

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    Maybe Total War just isn't for you anymore.
    That's certainly the case for me, miss me with the attempts to be accurate to fantastical sources and a broad lack of innovation for the historically rooted gameplay systems of the series, particularly in a supposedly historical based game.

    Even the historical games aren't particularly historical by any stretch of their 'authenticity vs accuracy' excuse from Rome 2. When that's the case, it's time for me to close up shop. But given I lost steam at Empire going onwards, that's hardly news.

    Felt like replying to one person, ended up going to page 1 and just cherry picking the entire thread. So, more to read edited in below, or not, I don't really care, I just wanted to word soup.
    Spoiler for Assorted replies

    Quote Originally Posted by fightermedic View Post
    I wish they would have gone full on mythological with this one... As is it is, it seems to sit in a slightly weird spot between realistic and fantasy, even more so, than Total War games always seem to do
    I can sort of excuse this given it's not their main line cup of tea, and a Saga, in my view, is an opportunity to explore and innovate. I dunno how or if that will really occur here, but that inherent split I don't have a true bone with. I do think it's more ado for a series that is very heavily interested in using fantasy to make the history appetizing when the history could well do that on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire -WONDERBOLT! View Post
    This is the most redundant sentence ever. It's just repeating the question.
    The post has a lot of lines like this. The FAQ overall hurt my impressions with its writing and statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Somehow those news bits have not been in my radar. I have no idea how.
    Don't feel bad, it was early in the month where off-hand conversation on discord made my privy to the possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytaninc View Post
    This looks like it's going to be an even more boring version of Thrones of Britannia. I'm going to pass.
    On the contrary, it seems like it wants to integrate substantially more systems and push a fantasy side amidst the historical premise. I imagine it will have more raw things to do and involve a great deal more scripting and campaign tidbits than ToB hoped to achieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by izzi View Post
    Boring as hell. Getting tiered of all those melee specific games. ETW2 when? Pike and Shot when? Victoria TW when? With Naval battles, when? Jeezes! Just don't care CA! Give the gunpowder boys something. The melee and fantasy boys had enough for now.
    If this board is any indication, while the gunpowder boys certainly have a voice, it isn't an especially large one, and I think you will find people hard pressed to agree that historical contexts and a good melee are an expended resource for a good total war game. My total disinterest in those periods aside, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boicote View Post
    For the first time since Attila, I'm interested in a TW games (Warhammer, Thrones of Britannia and 3K are not my thing). However, I'm a little disappointed with the naval battles. I would prefer to autoresolve them (just like in Rome 1 and Med 2), rather than see both armies disembarking to fight on land.
    I quite agree, this isn't even a naval battle. It's a disappointment that after 10+ years of actual naval battles existing in the series, the design has boiled to "I give up, just make them disembark and call it a land battle".

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Yeah, why not give us soficated guys a brand new engine in the next game like the 30 years war.
    I think you'd want to be pushing this for a Saga title if anything, as that's a smaller scale opportunity for them to bugger up before applying a new engine to a full scale game. This is what I mean when I say the saga series has some true potential for innovation.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Do people like these quasi-fantasy games now, or is CA losing touch with their old fanbase?
    I'd say a combination of both, really. Portions of the old base don't follow along, but with the new fans and old ones who enjoy the remaining and new elements alike, they just don't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Literally everyone that liked Greek history wanted a Total War game that covered Troy.
    In context of the preceding comment, sure. However, lets make an example. Advocates for medieval 3 may not necessarily be thinking of 'hero' mechanics (substantive characters do not need to have the total war approach to heros to be decent, just to head that off) and mechanics built on medieval superstitions, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by izzi View Post
    I do miss the time where game companies actually made art like games. Now it's about how much they earn. For me TW lost it's source. It's now about "what earns the most", so let us mix fantasy with history.
    I wonder, if gunpowder total war games hit off and gunpowder games were repeated ad nausiem, we'd see this comment from the same source today. Not a dig, just curious. We can't really know, but I think it's a fun thing to think about.

    For my part I do think if CA did a better job with splitting teams, there would be merits to having a gunpowder-oriented team or simply an initiative to throw one in every couple of games. I feel gunpowder inherently loses some of the appeal of total war, but that's just what I glomped onto with Shogun and Medieval onwards, and in a wider scope it has full legitimacy to be explored.

    Quote Originally Posted by izzi View Post
    I will make my own masterpiece mod with Fall of the Samurai (Victoria TW with a world map).
    Best of luck with this effort.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Pretty sure that private, profit-seeking companies always aimed at money and not artistic expression. [...] I understand your complaints, but it seems to me more of a case about changing tastes, in comparison to the mainstream approach. Heroic duels sell and the popularity of Brad Pitt films will be guaranteed for our generation, at least. If Troy fails commercially, then there's a great chance that CA will abandon this fusion of fantasy and history, in favour of either keeping them separate or concentrating exclusively on the former.

    I think the impression of games losing 'artistic passion' is rooted in gaming's origins as a nerdy niche, and its evolution into a mainstream, multibillion dollar business. Older games may have felt more authentic and less 'for the money' because what sold certain generations and maximized margins while still being acceptable simply wasn't known. It was safe to stick to expansions and the like, and only after the tentative trying and resounding success of the smaller DLC model did many of the things we see today become standard. In relation to your comment, I think the answer here is 'both'. I do think older games had a fundamentally higher interest for passion and innovation over tweaking and selling what works along thin lines because those lines weren't defined, nor was 'more' standardized. Nowadays with a mainstream audience, those lines are very distinct indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I believe that bolded statement does an injustice to Thrones of Britannia. That game was and is beautiful.
    You think it was beautiful and the broader audience simply doesn't agree, perhaps not visually, but in terms of any degree of mechanical depth and replayability with the rest of the series. Sure, it's pretty, but that clearly doesn't hold people. In the context of what you quoted, there hasn't been a disservice at all. Enjoying the game and finding it beautiful is a perfectly valid opinion. Throb's incredibly muted arrival and subsequent lack of popularity and enjoyment in the wider base compared to every single other thing in the series (we need to go back to shogun here to find an even playing field) is simply a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    So you read Hilliad...So DESCRIBE the duel between Achiles and Hector.
    I am curius if you read that part...I am waiting your description. Remember that in Greece we study Hilliad both in its original text and its modern greek translation ....
    I am waiting your description...
    If you say Troy's portrayal of history is 'raping' greek history, this comment is a blatant molestation of good debate. It's not his job to prove a point for you. Prove a point on your own substance or prove you have none at all, a bark without bite. The latter part of post #57 should have taken this one's place, and even then, clarity would be immensely useful in actually convincing people.

    I can't imagine Troy would be a good representation of history at all, and I think the mechanics in particular are counterthesis to a good historical portrayal in general... but the former's just a derivative of how total war in general works and the latter is on a mechanical level not really entailing the language you utilize on the historical portrayal of an as of yet unreleased game. This comment holds through pages 4 and 5 as of this posting.

    I'm more interested in the mechanical approach than the exact parity of history anyways, so other than this I'm not interested in the given conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Total War: Troy. Good meme CA.

    I wonder if they'll bother fixing their siege AI for a game which is inspired by a siege battle.
    We can only hope. I'd call it a bit little too late, but at least that would be strong innovation for a small scale title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    Total War has never been 100% historically authentic, they've said it numerous times... so all the kids getting upset at everything not being 100%
    I'm not even sure Anthonius is necessarily driving at perfect accuracy, so all encompassing 'everyone on that side shut up' comments aren't very helpful. Calling people kids with overtly sweeping judgements of position is probably not going to have the effect you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    when have naval battles ever been something to do in Total War ?
    When they integrated it into Empire and made multiple attempts to do it across the series. It's about time for them to give a serious go at making it viable, at least, in my line of thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I also not a big fan of hybrid games based on legendary stories of the past. It seems to be lazy development. You will spend a lot less time developing a game if you are not bogged down with historical accuracy.
    Unless you are asserting research is a highly demanding and massive portion of development, I would argue this really just doesn't apply. They have to make models regardless. They have to make/revise (probably more of the latter, but I digress) mechanics regardless. These can be done with sweeping efforts towards historical accuracy regardless of the amount of sourcebooks they pore over in an effort to get particular helm designs or exact details right. That's simply never been the crisis in total war. Medieval 2 for its various deep inaccuracies remains a key entry on its mechanical merits despite the laughably terrible accuracy in some cases that doesn't light a candle to what must have gone into Rome 2, which itself is not working on historical accuracy as the primary contributor of its popularity. Et al. If that entire statement was invalidated by the sarcasm bit, then... sorry? I don't see the point of the comment otherwise.

    Point being, fast and loose or even 'decent but not historian' approaches to historical accuracy are not pointers towards the effort put in actually developing the game. I can gurantee there are many things that they could put together that have nothing to do with the past few page's back and forth on history that would make this game among the top if not the top regarded entry for accurate portrayals, like reworking the basic feel of melee and making a more innovative political system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    I am not sure if the setting could translate well in the TW sandbox formula.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    I agree. A game based on the Greco-Persian Wars (499 - 449 BC) would have suited better for the TW serie and would have offered much more options IMO.
    Would you not agree that since this is a Saga title, the choice of period is not inappropriate? For a main line total war game, certainly, but - and I know success can't be used to call this a viable metric - the precedence so far is limited context and narrative basis, making a fully fledged sandbox oozing diversity of content not required to get by. Surely there's enough to be done, if done right, to make something of a deliberately smaller scope play well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    There's a bit of contradiction between sandbox game and three ways to occupy Troy/late-game boss. I find the latter especially alien to the essential concepts of strategy video-games, in general, and the Total War franchise, in particular.
    Extremely alien. I'm not going to judge too far until release, but this is a key issue for me in where Total War seems to be going, paired with this,
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    A bit weird they removed the recruitment system of Throb, as it was one of the few (perhaps the only) feature that was actually praised for adding realism.
    Seriously? We're adding boss mechanics and we can't so much as paste a mechanic with good reviews from one game to another that wouldn't hurt one lick?

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    There are glaring issues that have plagued every TW title since at least Rome I (the earliest one I've played), and probably before.
    Feel free to say 'evey TW title'; as a player of the originals, there were of course issues, although Medieval 1 came across as remarkably better polished in many regards than Medieval 2. Off the top of my head the faction select system alone had better depth on historical merits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    The diplomatic system of Rome I and Med II was unrealistic nonsense with journeys from several years from Rome to Antiochia, while in reality the journey would only last 18 days via ship.
    Nothing wrong with a new implementation doing it better.

    Not saying this is what you're doing or thinking, but I'd really like the series to approach features as things to improve, rather than things to just remove if they seem meh at a given time or precisely because they have issues like this.

    Last edited by Imperator Majora; September 29, 2019 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Why doublepost, it's all just commodian dribble anyways

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