View Poll Results: Who do you believe is the perpetrator?

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  • Houthis

    4 13.33%
  • Iran

    10 33.33%
  • Other (please, specify)

    5 16.67%
  • Don't know.

    11 36.67%
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Thread: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

  1. #121
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    I just don't see what Iran would really gain in such an attack. It might drive the price of oil up, which might benefit Iran slightly, but I still don't see it worth the potential fallout from the attack.
    I can see a lot of gain.

    OK so Trump is actually sticking with maximum pressure - for sanctions and brow beating allies and anyone else to fall in line. But he is just as obviously whiffed on the military option. His demands are sort of abject surrender as even a modest regional power to even talk. So why not push buttons. Driving up the price of oil and or provoking Trump to unplanned military reaction likely involves Iran (or rather its leaders) not in any cost of blood or treasure too high to pay, and opens the question about what price Trump will pay. So far I think they have him pegged correctly he talks loudly and left his stick in his garish penthouse apartment (big or otherwise).

    Were I them I'd wait about week or so more and start depositing mines in shipping lanes. Personally a little classical history is always useful. As Cato showed repetition is nice. Every Iranian leader should start their talks - any talk (or ending) with mentioning the nuclear non proliferation treaty does demand the declared powers have a plan to achieve no nukes as part of the deal for nobody else to have them...
    Last edited by conon394; September 24, 2019 at 01:44 PM.
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  2. #122

    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Given that you can barely make it through a post without talking about the “globalist elite propaganda,” and the fact that the article doesn’t state anything close to what you’re claiming, it’s pretty obvious you’re the one doing any implying.
    Like I said, I wasn't the one who made claim that Houthis are able to make more of such strikes and being pressed by Iran to do so.
    Because if journalists burn their sources, they won’t have any who are willing to divulge anything more controversial than a cake recipe. Welcome to political reporting 101. The article frames the allegations in the appropriate context. You’re the one who hasn’t presented any evidence for your assertions.
    Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I haven't made any assertions, just questioning article's narrative and lack of sources.

  3. #123
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I haven't made any assertions, just questioning article's narrative and lack of sources.
    You asserted that
    1. The article has some kind of ulterior “narrative” which you described as “globalist propaganda.”
    2. This “narrative” is apparently telling the reader “we need to go to war on behalf of a violent theocratic dictatorship”

    Having projected your own extraordinary claims onto the article, you then say the article’s apparently extraordinary claims aren’t allowed to rely on anonymous sources. I may lend more credence to your dismissal of news you don’t like as “globalist propaganda” when you at least attempt to hold yourself to your own standards. Until then, your objections are based purely on your own narrative, not anything in the article.

  4. #124
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    The scenario you envision is not possible under rhe US Constitution. US elections are held at fixed dates, unlike a prime minister the President cannot dissolve Congress and call a new election The President would gave to perform a coup himself to dissolved Congress. Or declare Martial Law, but that would be challenged in the Supreme Court, and his martial law declaration would be overturned.
    Yeah that's the point of the hypothetical, CS.

  5. #125
    Miles
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Back to the claim that people keep reiterating that Yemenis weren't capable of such an attack.

    Well how about we ask the Saudis about that? Not their words, but their actions?

    Turns out they had a Patriot missile complex on the Abqaiq. Given that the Patriot radar doesn't provide 360° coverage, what direction do you think they had pointed it at? Obviously where they expected the most danger. So northeast towards Iran?

    Nope. SouthSouthWest towards Yemen.
    Speaking of Yemen's military capabilities, here's an article from July in which the Houthis have an exhibition showing off all their drones.

    https://maps.southfront.org/missiles...s-new-weapons/

    These drones look shiny enough (and familiar enough) to be the ones that took part in the refinery, especially the Samad-3 and the Qasef-1 (the latter is suposedly identical to an Iranian drone called Ababil-2, which might explain why there was some confusion over the drones' origins).

  6. #126
    B. W.'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiss Army Cheese View Post
    Speaking of Yemen's military capabilities, here's an article from July in which the Houthis have an exhibition showing off all their drones.

    https://maps.southfront.org/missiles...s-new-weapons/

    These drones look shiny enough (and familiar enough) to be the ones that took part in the refinery, especially the Samad-3 and the Qasef-1 (the latter is suposedly identical to an Iranian drone called Ababil-2, which might explain why there was some confusion over the drones' origins).
    And where, oh where, are all those high tech manufacturing facilities that produced those drones. Oh yeah, they don't exist in Yeman. If they did , they would have been destroyed already.

  7. #127
    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    the saudis are more trouble than they are worth; kill the family, expropriate the oil and wealth from the people at large. Leave the country a wasteland when we no longer need the oil.
    Man will never be free until the last King is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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  8. #128

    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    And where, oh where, are all those high tech manufacturing facilities that produced those drones. Oh yeah, they don't exist in Yeman. If they did , they would have been destroyed already.
    You can't tell if you need a high-tech facility to finish assembling these drones and missiles. It's just about as credible as someone claiming that these were made with a welding gun. The parts can easily be smuggled in from Iran, the paint job itself is simple and can be done in any garage. The actual assembly is most likely the easiest part of the process.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    You asserted that
    1. The article has some kind of ulterior “narrative” which you described as “globalist propaganda.”
    2. This “narrative” is apparently telling the reader “we need to go to war on behalf of a violent theocratic dictatorship”

    Having projected your own extraordinary claims onto the article, you then say the article’s apparently extraordinary claims aren’t allowed to rely on anonymous sources. I may lend more credence to your dismissal of news you don’t like as “globalist propaganda” when you at least attempt to hold yourself to your own standards. Until then, your objections are based purely on your own narrative, not anything in the article.
    I haven't made any assertions. I was commenting on the content of the article you yourself posted - which made a number of extraordinary claims without any verifiable sources. Given the history of of American mainstream media making blatantly false statements before, and its low credibility among its own audience, it only makes sense to treat "anonymous sources" with skepticism.

  10. #130
    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    In my opinion the Houthi Rebells are more military capable than some western governments think:

    Yemen: Houthi rebels claim capture of 'thousands' of Saudi troops

    Iran-aligned Houthi rebels have claimed their largest operation yet, reportedly capturing "thousands" of Saudi troops in the border region. There has been no immediate confirmation from Saudi authorities.

    Yemen's Houthi fighters have claimed a major raid resulting in the capture of "thousands" of enemy troops, including many officers and soldiers of the Saudi army, as well as hundreds of armored vehicles and weapons.

    Houthi military spokesman Yahia Sarie told the Houthi-run al-Masirah broadcaster on Saturday that three "enemy military brigades had fallen" in the operation. He said the offensive was supported by drone, missile and air defense units.
    "This is the largest operation since aggression started on our country," he said.
    The operation, reportedly near the southern Saudi region of Najran, has not been confirmed by the Saudi-led coalition leading the fight against the Houthis. The Houthis have offered no visual evidence for their claims.

    https://www.dw.com/en/yemen-houthi-r...ops/a-50627382

    If this news should be confirmed, than its even more credible, that the Houthi are behind the Drone Attack.
    Last edited by Carmen Sylva; September 28, 2019 at 08:01 PM.
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  11. #131
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I haven't made any assertions. I was commenting on the content of the article you yourself posted - which made a number of extraordinary claims without any verifiable sources. Given the history of of American mainstream media making blatantly false statements before, and its low credibility among its own audience, it only makes sense to treat "anonymous sources" with skepticism.
    You’re not treating anything with “skepticism.” You’re making baseless assertions and then denying having asserted anything. Have fun I guess.

  12. #132
    B. W.'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    You can't tell if you need a high-tech facility to finish assembling these drones and missiles. It's just about as credible as someone claiming that these were made with a welding gun. The parts can easily be smuggled in from Iran, the paint job itself is simple and can be done in any garage. The actual assembly is most likely the easiest part of the process.
    So the Iranians were the source after all?

  13. #133

    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    So the Iranians were the source after all?
    This is like claiming Russians are the masterminds behind violence on the African continent because everybody there uses AK-47s.

  14. #134
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Saudi Arabia: Drone attack against world's largest crude oil refinery

    An Iranian oil tanker was hit and damaged probably by missiles in the Red Sea, near the port of Jeddah. The authorities have blamed the Saudi Royal Navy as at least indirectly responsible for the attack and, in my opinion, their suspicions seem reasonable. It's probably a retaliatory move on behalf of Riyadh for the alleged involvement of Tehran in the refinery affair. It's important to note though, that Iranian commercial shipping is regularly harassed in the Red Sea, by what could be described as borderline piratical activities.

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