Immigration to the US and Europe in Historical and Social Context

[Aexodus]

You surely can’t deny that there’s an ethnic element to national identity in Europe, unlike the USA.

[gaztop]

Most countries, can not survive without an influx of immigrants. Without this cornerstone of society, economies would sink.
However, culture, traditions, religion and bigotry help fuel the fire of racism and hatred.
The United States, United Kingdom and most European countries, were built on the broken backs of slaves and immigrants.
Our lives, what we eat, entertainment, family, have all been shaped by immigrants.
No one, has a clean heritage, we are made from so many different cultures.
I'm an Englishman, I can trace my family, back to the court of Queen Elizabeth the first. But, in my DNA there are Vikings, Normans and Celts.
Throughout history the flux, and influx of immigrants has shaped history, it still does, it always will.

Aperi corda vestra et intelligentias verstras in quibus eritis. In deo speramus.

[Aexodus]

The United States, United Kingdom and most European countries, were built on the broken backs of slaves and immigrants.

That’s simply not true, and slavery is irrelevant.

Current migration levels are unheard of since the Bronze Age.

[Cope]

You surely can’t deny that there’s an ethnic element to national identity in Europe, unlike the USA.

Traditional national identities no longer exist in Western Europe. If you ask someone what it means to be English, let's say, they'll give you a bunch of trivial rubbish about eating fish and chips, drinking tea, "queueing" and cheering Harry Kane at the World Cup. Now that doesn't mean that people are without a sense of attachment to their countries, but it certainly doesn't take the form of "blood and soil" nationalism.

[Mithradates]

You surely can’t deny that there’s an ethnic element to national identity in Europe, unlike the USA.

Just to make sure,

"blood and soil" was an ideology in Nazi Germany, Blut und Boden, it was one of the foundations of the Lebensraum concept.

Jus sanguinis, "right of blood", your citizenship is determined by your parents nationality/citizenship (most of Europe)

Jus soli, "right of the soil", your citizenship is determined by where you were born (US)

[gaztop]

Read your history me old china. Entire countries were enslaved by Romans Greeks Nazi's ect.
And it continues today. Without Mexican immigrants, the US would not have a harvest.
Likewise nor would the UK, and most countries around the world.
Immigrant labour, is slave labour. And has always been the same.

[Aexodus]

What are you talking about The situation in the Americas and Europe are completely different.

Traditional national identities no longer exist in Western Europe.

Umm excuse me? And what about the rest of Europe? Are you seriously gonna tell me that in Ireland say, identity is purely and only civic?

[Heathen Hammer]

Read your history me old china. Entire countries were enslaved by Romans Greeks Nazi's ect.
And it continues today. Without Mexican immigrants, the US would not have a harvest.
Likewise nor would the UK, and most countries around the world.
Immigrant labour, is slave labour. And has always been the same.

Nah, Europe and North America were perfectly fine for centuries without mass immigration. Its just greedy corporations and corrupt politicians who benefit from it.

[Cope]

Umm excuse me? And what about the rest of Europe? Are you seriously gonna tell me that in Ireland say, identity is purely and only civic?

Find me the mainstream Irish politician claiming that Celtic genetics are part of Irish national identity. I'll wait.

[Aexodus]

Why does it have to be a politician who says so?

[Cope]

Why does it have to be a politician who says so?

How the political class chooses to frame the idea of nationhood is usually a pretty decedent barometer for how the idea of nationhood is generally framed. What you want me to believe is that Irish people think that Varadkar is outside of the Irish nation because he is of Indian and Anglo-Saxon origin. It simply isn't true.

[Aexodus]

What you want me to believe is that Irish people think that Varadkar is outside of the Irish nation because he is of Indian and Anglo-Saxon origin.

For pete’s sake stop strawmanning me. I said it was an element of it, it’s not like it’s the only aspect of being Irish/German/bloody Chinese.

[Cope]

For pete’s sake stop strawmanning me. I said it was an element of it, it’s not like it’s the only aspect of being Irish/German/bloody Chinese.

And as I said to you, not anymore its not. There isn't anyone in the mainstream - not journalists, not politicians, not commentators - arguing that genetics are part of national identity. The idea simply has no institutional relevance outside of the Balkans and the east.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I wonder, if "blood and soil" have a renaissance in UK:

Oxford professor’s children refused visas to join her in UK

...
The Wellcome Trust, a health research charity, has evidence of around 100 cases in which academics, especially from African countries, have been refused visas to come to the UK for conferences, often for spurious reasons.

The African Studies Association UK found that at least 17 delegates were refused entry for its biennial academic conference at Birmingham University last year.
...

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...box=1569911972

Although canadian academics have been refused visas too.

Perhaps their names were too french.^^

[Squiggle]

blacks in america got the kicked out of them at various points in history, and the resulting impact of that has been generations of drug use, poverty, poor child rearing, an uneducated culture. Basically, we can see pretty clearly the effects of culture when we look at north america, and trauma. Generations matter, you cant just make a black kid a white kid. Of course over time you can, but it might take generations-- alcoholics often produce alcoholic children, ignorant parents ignorant children etc.

So the idea that a civilization is going to continue based on importing someone elses babies is frankly laughable. Your talking about bringing in a servant class of culturally distinct people, in a continent that cant get along even if the only difference is language, and think its going to work out? Its a recipe for ethnic conflict, state collapse...genocide.

If your immigration policy doesnt jive with how the human animal-- on the larger social scale-- works, its idiotic and should be thrown out. There is no tenable way to keep europe going as is. There will be blood-- and a lot of it-- because the solution to the demographic problem was frankly idiotic and never workable. You can increase native birth rates with social programs, they had decades to work on it, tinker on the policy, figure out how to make it work. They chose short term solutions that will result in blood/chaos. Liberal capitalism ahoy!

[sumskilz]

blacks in america got the kicked out of them at various points in history, and the resulting impact of that has been generations of drug use, poverty, poor child rearing, an uneducated culture. Basically, we can see pretty clearly the effects of culture when we look at north america, and trauma. Generations matter, you cant just make a black kid a white kid. Of course over time you can, but it might take generations-- alcoholics often produce alcoholic children, ignorant parents ignorant children etc.

If only there were some good white people to save them...

[Love Mountain]

If only there were some good white people to save them...

If only Sowell ever learned to stop blaming the victim.