Are armored camels possible in R2/DEI?

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

Is an armored camel model similar to these guys from Attila possible in DEI? The question is two parts: 1) would such a model fit the period and 2) is it even possible to get an armored camel model into Rome 2 ? I've always liked camels, they're silly animals and the more variants of them there are, the happier I am.

[KAM 2150]

There already are few armoured camel models in tye game but they do not fit the timeframe.

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

I was afraid that would be the case, thank you for confirming.

[KAM 2150]

Outside of that, there are no good sources for armoured camels to ever exist in history. At battle of Nisbis they were fighting as mounted javelin throwers while their riders were described as "Cataphracts", which despite popular misconception, confirms that only rider is clad in armour, barded mount is not required.

Camels are just not very good for shock combat and even Arabian tribes, which had plenty of camels, used horses for proper warfare.

If someone would be able to provide good, solid sources for armoured camels I would be happy to add them though.

[Dumanthis]

Intuition would say that camels being slower than horses would be more vulnerable to missile attacks, especially if they are being used as a mounts/platforms for javelin throwers or archers. Camels are also more capable of carrying heavier burdens, so they would be more capable to carry armour, not necessary plate or chain but linen (not unlike linokataphractoi) or something similar mainly for missile protection. However no such armour made of linen would have survived to present day. This is now a mystery to us indeed Maybe CA has some secret sources where they come up with this unit?

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

CA has the most reliable source of all: "We think these look cool." I agree, I do very much.

[Dumanthis]

However, I think we can safely assume that armor clad warriors on UNARMOURED camels would be a plausible late game unit for Parthians at least (fighting with long spears) Made a quick search https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/1...phract-camels/

[KAM 2150]

That was an interesting read, thanks for that Dumanthis!

As I thought, it all boils down to how broad ones understanding of specific terms is, like in the case of Cataphract meaning armoured rider, not necessarily armoured mount. One thing that was not mentioned is, were this Camel troops at Nisbis actually Parthian in origin or were they Arabian allies or mercs like it was the case with Persians.

As for armoured riders, at the moment I think only Romans have them.

Similar unit could be added for late game Parthians but I just wonder if it was their core unit or a foreign unit, in which case they would be more likely an AOR in some region.

[Dago Red]

Their name is Grivpanvar, I believe their enemies (at least the Romans) chronicled them. Pretty sure I've seen them in other researched mods like EBII or RTR or something. I think we're on the right forums to find out!

[KAM 2150]

That is not their name, that is Persian name for cataphracts.

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

Grivpanvar are already in game, there are three versions of them: early and late factional shock cavalry for Parthia, and an AOR version for everyone in Parthava. I wouldn't mind someone sneaking in some camel Grivpanvar though.

[Dago Red]

Just a general name I guess yes, but I have read Grivpanvar referred to as either mounted on horse or camel. especially where it concerns that particular battle against the Romans already mentioned at Nisibis in 217 AD.

[KAM 2150]

Go and read link that Dumanthis posted, it contains pretty much all existing sources we have on them, which are inconclusive.


I went into AK to check out few stuff. At least from the sources we know that heavily armoured camel riders are not fantasy, I think we could have a sort of inbetween units. This means that most of camels will not have any armour, some with have partial light armour and all riders will be in cataphract gear.

Here is camel set I have assembled:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Btw, this armour looks sweet:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

Yessss, yes, these are camels that I want to use in DEI! Both look perfect. These are Persian camel units geographically? If a source could be found for it, a unit like this would be great as AOR for Arabia, as it would make that place more desirable to conquer considering its otherwise low income and annoying attrition that always make me avoid it if I can.

[Dumanthis]

Looking good, love the second one especially I think that giving some of camels different levels of armour is an intuitive and a plausible choice when taking into account the nature of the sources. About the Arabian origin I think we cannot say a thing or two, I am not familiar with cataphract usage among the arabians nor cataphract style armoured warriors either in the period at least. Probably Arabians brought the animals and Parthians the armour, but who actually rode them into battle in fact? Well, the camels at least (or dromedaries) might have been "Arabans" themselves .

[colonel klinck]

to have and ride armored camels is possible but beware of the accident great general (strategos ?)! . It's really hard to move on sandy ground and through dunes with a rolling chair !

[Dumanthis]

Found some related-ish videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhBXQT9UFKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k0_9Y1XaC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqYLGFDZq9M

Almost forgot how big animal the camel is Seems like it has some advantages over horses at least, one being that the rider is more elevated and that the mass of the animal can just plough through masses of people

[KAM 2150]

There is no average weight of a horse due to amount of horse breeds but horse weight and camel weight are similar with horses having much higher top weight.

[Dumanthis]

There is no average weight of a horse due to amount of horse breeds but horse weight and camel weight are similar with horses having much higher top weight.

Indeed, it seems like the horses in the Tahrir are of the arabian horse breed (400kg~) while the dromedary can weight up to 600kg~. But the heaviest draft horses can weight up to 850kg so they would indeed pack a punch

[Artannis Wolfrunner]

Hello, my camels have been looking curiously at me, wondering if they are going to get some armor to rival their horse buddies. Is there a chance either of those excellent armored models above or others may make it in game?

The Desert Kingdoms DLC added them in for Saba in Rome 2. I know CA isn't that big on history in their history games these days, but is there any basis for this in DEI or is this purely an asset copy from Attila to produce low cost content? Arabia is such an undesirable province to conquer due to its unavoidable desert and summer attrition, and AOR armored camels would make the province much more attractive.