My Apology About The Recent Events

**Caius Britannicus** · January 21, 2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Aristophanes

It's generally true that when those who have power use it arbitrarily, without moderation and without justice, those who don't have power are no longer willing to accept the state of affairs. Rules, such as they are, begin to lose their lustre and their sway when those tasked with upholding them become keen to violate them. The general rule with rules is a quid pro quo: you uphold your end, I'll uphold mine. At the end of the day, moral superiority is a less worthy goal than survival and success.

I think you need to wake up and realize this is the Interent. The moderators and the staff of this forum at least while it was under ON have the only say in what is allowed and not allowed. It should be pointed out that the riot was not based on any of H&G's actions seeing as they were all reversed by that time and it was nothing but a board invasion to try and promote the new website and disrupt posting on the TWC as much as possible. There was no vaunted higher cause and great injustice that needed to righted at that time. Please, continue to sit on your high horse and pretend that an internet forum is a place of injustices and wrongs that require revolutions and trials and elections. Meanwhile I'll go back to reality and try to participate in the community without trying to tear it all down because I didn't get my way.

**Perikles** · January 21, 2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Caius Britannicus

Does all that suddenly excuse you of acting maturely and following the rules of the forum.... I don't think so.

I am glad you thought we acted maturely.

[/amensty]Caius, I thought we'd given up this petty bickering, please give it a rest. It is YOU who is moaning because YOU did not get your way.[amnesty]

**Virgil** · January 21, 2007, 10:37 AM

excellent post padre and apology accepted. I'm glad this is all sorted out and people are letting bygons be bygons. I would hate for people to hold grudges. I'm glad you are sticking around and hope to see you around. Thanks again for all the hard work in the past.

**Lusted** · January 21, 2007, 10:40 AM

Everyone that was banned or put on global ignore was participating in the riot.

That is just not true. Fabolous, Mimirswell, Imb39, Simetrical(for a time), tactical withdrawal are just some of the names that come to mind of people who were banned/put on global ignore/deleted who were not taking part in the riots.

**Caius Britannicus** · January 21, 2007, 10:44 AM

no jp, I don't care one way or another. What I am 'bickering' about is that not only does the conduct of yesterday seem to be condoned it is being hailed as a glorious fight. It should be neither and I wish sim had been around earlier. Ask Fab or Simetrical. They know me, they know my motives. I don't care one way or another about the politics of the site or who's running it. I just want it to run smoothly. Yesterday it did not, and it wasn't because of my actions or the actions of the staff, but of yours and your so called army of spam. I'm even more disappointed because the curia members claimed to be intelligent and mature, yesterday I did not see that. From rioting to being called all sorts of things... for what... nothing thats what. You placed a MASSIVE scar on the twc, I just pray it heals.

**spirit_of_rob** · January 21, 2007, 10:44 AM

i would hardly call asking why someone was able to delete threads after having his powers removed a riot

**imb39** · January 21, 2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Caius Britannicus

I think you need to wake up and realize this is the Interent. The moderators and the staff of this forum at least while it was under ON have the only say in what is allowed and not allowed. It should be pointed out that the riot was not based on any of H&G's actions seeing as they were all reversed by that time and it was nothing but a board invasion to try and promote the new website and disrupt posting on the TWC as much as possible. There was no vaunted higher cause and great injustice that needed to righted at that time. Please, continue to sit on your high horse and pretend that an internet forum is a place of injustices and wrongs that require revolutions and trials and elections. Meanwhile I'll go back to reality and try to participate in the community without trying to tear it all down because I didn't get my way.

Can I defend everyone's actions, or mine for that matter, no. Was it approparite - no, it was not at the end of the day. However I was summarily banned for nothing - an abuse of power. UI was warned for making a duplicate account - the only one I may add even though I had not broken the ToS. This is allowed. My account was even deleted. All I am trying to illustrate is that both sides have erred. Many on both sides acted with credit. You for example. Spirix too. I can name a host, I am sure. For that I thank you.

I have offered my apologies to Gaius Baltar - though I was in truth highly offended at the time. I genuinely was. There were other issues that came into play, which he is fully aware of and I suggest, you might not be. Also, to be fair to you, it is clear that you were acting under some serious misinformation - as can be seen by last night's turn of events.

**Perikles** · January 21, 2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Caius Britannicus

no jp, I don't care one way or another. What I am 'bickering' about is that not only does the conduct of yesterday seem to be condoned it is being hailed as a glorious fight. It should be neither and I wish sim had been around earlier. Ask Fab or Simetrical. They know me, they know my motives. I don't care one way or another about the politics of the site or who's running it. I just want it to run smoothly. Yesterday it did not, and it wasn't because of my actions or the actions of the staff, but of yours and your so called army of spam. I'm even more disappointed because the curia members claimed to be intelligent and mature, yesterday I did not see that. From rioting to being called all sorts of things... for what... nothing thats what. You placed a MASSIVE scar on the twc, I just pray it heals.

And of course it was running smoothly with HG in charge or people on a Global ignore list so all the FAQ's and mod previews they had made disappeared. :hmmm:

Do you think we'd spam the hell out of this place for no reason? We had a reason and the reason was we had had our right to post on the forum removed for nothing more than disagreeing with the banning of a few members who were banned for no reason.

Now just give it a rest for heaven's sake...I want to get on with moderating the forum...

**Caius Britannicus** · January 21, 2007, 10:50 AM

JP... why do you think you have a right to post on a privately owned forum? Thats an honest question. If the admins don't want you posting they are fully within their right to ban you without explanation. And if you come back with duplicate accounts and spam the forums, they are again within their rights to get rid of you. If you don't understand how the interent really works... well I'll just leave it at that.

IMB, I must say that I you are right about the misinformation. I would assume archer was working under the same misinformation. We were told Ogre had no intention to sell. 7 new moderators were put in place last evening and a ranks system was being set up. We were preparing to go back to normal once the riots stopped the offending members left to their own forum. To see the turn of events certainly has me a little upset at Orge, and it makes me feel like I was used in a dubious way.

**DARTH VADER** · January 21, 2007, 10:51 AM

I devote minimum time to read other threads except my own forum.
I did not understand what happened only received about 10-12 messages saying
about a general problem without reasoning and a lot of spam links.

I still do not know what happened and honestly I do not like to see people responsible for a forum and thousands of fans to quarrel every 2-3 months about virtual benefits.

Therefore I honestly declare my bad temper about this new incident and not to someone specifically but it seems it goes to all the team responsible for the forum.

This forum is about a game and its mods. So it should stay like this.

**Perikles** · January 21, 2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Caius Britannicus

JP... why do you think you have a right to post on a privately owned forum? Thats an honest question. If the admins don't want you posting they are fully within their right to ban you without explanation. And if you come back with duplicate accounts and spam the forums, they are again within their rights to get rid of you. If you don't understand how the interent really works... well I'll just leave it at that.

Because we didn't break the ToS. If I banned you now I'm sure you'd complain, and don't say you wouldn't. The admins tried to ban the majority of active members, that is out of order, or did they not want an active forum?

This is my last post on the matter

**dragases1453** · January 21, 2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by DARTH VADER

This forum is about a game and its mods. So it should stay like this.

I'm with you 100%

**Ragabash** · January 21, 2007, 10:56 AM

Caius Britannicus.

Members like me were banned first, then unbanned, then put into blobal ignore list, it was this time when people started to create dublicate accounts, not when people were banned, and far as I know ToS does not deny creating dublicate accounts unless being suspended.

But were our actions right or wrong at the current time, I don't know, should we be ashamed of the results, definetly not.

Let's start rebuilding the town, we need all the hands to rebuild what we had, and to make the town even more magnificent then before, no need to argue about this longer, now we just have to make it sure it won't happen again.

**Caius Britannicus** · January 21, 2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Perikles

Because we didn't break the ToS. If I banned you now I'm sure you'd complain, and don't say you wouldn't. The admins tried to ban the majority of active members, that is out of order, or did they not want an active forum?

I hate to break it to you, but even at the PEAK of the global ignores the forum was still just as active as it was before archer even resigned. THe forums stats don't lie.

**imb39** · January 21, 2007, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Caius Britannicus

IMB, I must say that I you are right about the misinformation. I would assume archer was working under the same misinformation. We were told Ogre had no intention to sell. 7 new moderators were put in place last evening and a ranks system was being set up. We were preparing to go back to normal once the riots stopped the offending members left to their own forum. To see the turn of events certainly has me a little upset at Orge, and it makes me feel like I was used in a dubious way.

To be honest, from my understanding, I would not blame Ogre. He did not know, for example, that my account ws deleted. I'd also like to point out that I posted for people to remain calm (in the Org) and Sim posted here too. That despite the actions taken out on me and giga. There was so much happening behind the scenes and I was intimidated too.

I have either made peace with others, or offered to. I cannot defend the actions of all and I have already begun to draw up a staff policy based upon the events of last week. It isn't perfect but it's a start.

**Aristophanes** · January 21, 2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Caius Britannicus

JP... why do you think you have a right to post on a privately owned forum? Thats an honest question. If the admins don't want you posting they are fully within their right to ban you without explanation. And if you come back with duplicate accounts and spam the forums, they are again within their rights to get rid of you. If you don't understand how the interent really works... well I'll just leave it at that.

The ToS is a contract. As I said, it's a quid pro quo, and if only one side is willing to honour the bargain, it's time to re-evaluate.
Certain people, by banning/silencing so many great members, and with their determination to remove the modding section from the site, were steadfastly determined to destroy the site.

Originally Posted by Perikles

Because we didn't break the ToS. If I banned you now I'm sure you'd complain, and don't say you wouldn't. The admins tried to ban the majority of active members, that is out of order, or did they not want an active forum?

Which sums things up nicely.

IMB, I must say that I you are right about the misinformation. I would assume archer was working under the same misinformation. We were told Ogre had no intention to sell. 7 new moderators were put in place last evening and a ranks system was being set up. We were preparing to go back to normal once the riots stopped the offending members left to their own forum. To see the turn of events certainly has me a little upset at Orge, and it makes me feel like I was used in a dubious way.

Oh, I'm just tearing up.

BTW If you want a sympathetic audience, you'd better be willing to provide a sympathetic audience.

Originally Posted by CaiusBritannicus

I hate to break it to you, but even at the PEAK of the global ignores the forum was still just as active as it was before archer even resigned. THe forums stats don't lie.

Could that have had something to do with the spammy, spammy? Or was there no real spam problem, or what's your argument again?

**imb39** · January 21, 2007, 11:14 AM

I am surprised you had time to see the stats. At the end of the day, developments were happening. You lies, damned lies and statistics. What would have been interesting would be what happened after the new website was set up (is it still being worked on?)

I don't want to go over the ins and outs of the preparation for our possible departure, but it was never something that was considered the first choice.

**Kscott** · January 21, 2007, 01:24 PM

I know I may be somewhat of a hypocrite saying this, but can we please stop arguing about what was the just side? Im sure we can all agree this whole issue was 100% Bush's fault.

And on another note,

Archer I apologize to you as well, I let myself slip up a little bit in the wave of fury.

**Sinuhet** · January 21, 2007, 01:34 PM

Ave HorseArcher!

Thank you for all your hard work for the site in the previous staff positions... I am looking forward to your other work in modding TW games.

Other things are only important for some moment, but from longer perspective, the one thing is clear 100% - you ahve huge impact on the faith of TWC last year and you were one of the conditions of its success, maybe indirectly in most times, but if ther would be somebody else in your place, a lot of things would be different ...

See you later, and I hope that also in the Curia from time to time, you have had several very good points during some past discussions about restructuring the ranks ...

Bye Sinuhet