Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44

Thread: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

  1. #1
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,458
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Edit: Copied from post 9, the original content below is from the wrong terror report, from March. This one’s from 2 days ago.

    Diane Abbot hosted an event two days ago, endorsing a report titled “Leaving the War on Terror – A Progressive Alternative to Counter-Terrorism Policy” published by the transnational Institute. Two sections of it I want to discuss first then we can expand the conversation. Link to report.

    Links: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...ror-look-like/
    https://www.cage.ngo/landmark-study-...-war-on-terror

    So first of all, this report calls for the abolition of designated terrorist org lists.



    Yes, they want to stop proscribing terrorist groups. This thing wants us to repeal almost all of our post-9/11 counter terror legislation.

    Elsewhere in the ‘Leaving the War on terrorism’ report:



    Then it downplays the existence of Islamist groups. This would be our government policy. This is bonkers that Abbott would endorse such a report. It’s also praised by OpenDemocracy and CAGE, a Muslim group.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Diane Abbot, who is the Shadow Home Secretary for the Labour Party, has criticised UK counter-terror policies in a presentation of a report that labelled current policies as racist. Since she is the Shadow Home Secretary, this means that in a Labour government she would be in charge of our police force and our counter-terrorism policies.

    British based lobbyist group Spinwatch has seized on growing concerns over Islamophobic activity and hate speech to campaign against counter-extremism efforts designed to tackle the rise of terror.

    A meeting in the House of Commons attended by the Labour home affairs spokeswoman, Diane Abbott saw the presentation of a new report containing a series of allegations that Europe’s main initiatives designed to counter the rise of ISIS and other terror groups, were targeted exclusively against Muslims.

    The report acknowledgements attributed part of its research work to the assistance of MEND, a British-based advocacy group that has faced accusations of extremist links and works as a close ally of CAGE, where Moazzam Begg, the former Guantanamo detainee works as outreach director.

    Spinwatch is a transparency organisation that has not published a donor list since 2016 but the list of its most recent donors includes a variety of Muslim Brotherhood backers, including the Cordoba Foundation run by Anas Al-Tikriti, president of the Muslim Association of Britain.
    At the presentation researchers said that Western counter-terror policies were linked to the massacres committed by the Christchurch attacker in New Zealand who committed mass murder against friday worshippers in a Mosque, and Anders Brevik who shot dozens of socialist students in Norway in 2011.

    The bridge between the two was a concept described as the "counter-jihad movement". “Reflecting a broader shift on the far-right away from ‘old’ anti-semitism and towards islamophobia, the counter-jihad movement can be seen as a ‘new’ form of racism,” it said. “We consider how this inversion may have been facilitated by the onset of a historical ‘counter-extremism’ frameworks which tend to equate far-left and far-right.”
    It’s quite a leap to connect counter-terrorist policies to ethno-nationalist terrorists. The two attacks aren’t even counter-jihad, but against Muslims even existing in those countries with extermination of them as a valid tactic. These men also viewed a religious differentiation through a racial lens.

    The report also attacked French secularism, saying it was used by counter terror policies to target and discriminate against French Muslims.

    The report argues official French policies discriminated against Muslims. “While these projects may not be helping to prevent terrorism, we argue that they have assisted the rise of far-right,” it said. “Though we did not find counter-jihad groups in France borrowing the rhetoric of counter-extremism as much as in the UK and Germany, explicit islamophobia, targeting of mosques and the weaponisation of laďcité, the French concept of secularism, have all become thoroughly mainstream.”
    The article linked above mentions how the Tony Blair Institute named both CAGE and MEND as groups that perpetuate a ‘siege mentality’ which not only hinders counter-extremism efforts, but inhibits integration into British society.

    Diane Abbott has a history of being opposed to UK counter-terror laws, consistently voting against counter-terror acts and bills. For example, she was opposed to designating Al Quaeda as a terrorist organisation. When given a list of terrorist groups she voted against proscribing, she said she regarded some of them as dissidents not terrorist. (As if there’s some sort of difference, in my opinion).

    The gist of the report presented by Diane Abbot is that our current counter-terror policies are Islamophobic, and are therefore racist. For the scope of this thread I ask whether current policies are deliberately or arbitrarily anti-Muslim, or whether they inevitably are more active in communities more vulnerable to radicalisation, as well as whether or not Diane Abbott would be fit for the office of Home Secretary in a Labour Government. For example, Northern Irish communities, or Muslim communities. I also disagree that Islamophobia is racism, and I’ve outlined my thoughts on that here.

    Here’s the report itself, entitled “Islamophobia in Europe: How governments are enabling the far-right ‘counter-jihad’ movement” which I want to look into later. Feel free to have a look at it. http://powerbase.info/images/6/6c/Ak...eport-2019.pdf
    Last edited by Aexodus; September 07, 2019 at 07:30 AM.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    It makes sense that an official from fiscally illeterate party, policy of which is clearly out of touch with reality in economic questions, would be out of touch with reality in ohter subjects as well.
    It is also kind of ironic that by saying that this policy is racist she is implying that non-white people are more likely to be terrorists.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    God forbid that an MP challenge the policies of the government of the day. Isn't that Diane's job? There is much material out there highlighting the Muslim communities concern with Prevent. Not that I agree with her,or them, in my view the policy doesn't go far enough, for example Generation Identity should, in my view be outlawed and it's promoters locked up.

    It does not require a leap to connect Islamophobia to the mass murders from Utoya to El Paso. It's a virus which has evolved from a laughable expression of bigotry to a weapon that could radicalise susceptible people (look what happened to Basil over the years) . Those who fondly remember the time around 2006 when Simon Cashmere's strange posts will recall that attacks were made against Islam as an irresistible culture that would swamp us all, to prevent this the West should curb Islamic migration, remove rights from those settled there and support Israel the US and UK in their invasions of random countries without question. These people were odd but mockable. However that changed in 2011 when one Anders Breivik , having spent time with the fascist EDL concluded that 'criticising Islam' wont get rid of Muslims . We know the rest.

    You would think that 'phobes would have reconsidered their views, but no the following year , in France, Renaud Camus's 2012 wrote The Great Replacement,which suggested that it wasn't Muslims that were out to kill us , it was the 'elites' who imported them in order to wipe out white Christians. He essentilly married the laughable Eurabia theory with the more sinister white genocide conspiracy created by the convicted white supremacist terrorist David Lane. The American neo nazi community developed the idea further and consider all none white people and those who advocate equality as legitimate targets for murder. Hence murders of Jo Cox and latterly Mexicans at El Paso as well as Muslims , black people, Sikhs, and others in the name of a pointless cult.


    Islamophobia is coded racism, sites promoting Islamophobia always refer to third world migrants and so forth. The most common motive, tbh is to make money.
    Last edited by mongrel; September 06, 2019 at 02:40 PM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    It's incredible how it's always the most retarded and vile people who reliably get into these positions of power, and yet... somehow people seem to elect them.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Just when Corbyn seems to be getting somewhere, Diane Abbot can always be relied upon to it up. Thankfully.

    Seriously, a potential home secretary who doesn't think Al Quaida is a terrorist organisation?

  6. #6
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,458
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Personally I'm just surprised the only coverage this is getting is in a random UAE news site and a conservative blog Order-Order. Like surely at lea Breitbart and the partisan minded sites would be publicising this.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  7. #7
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Planet Nirn
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    UK has more serious problems right now

  8. #8

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Personally I'm just surprised the only coverage this is getting is in a random UAE news site and a conservative blog Order-Order. Like surely at lea Breitbart and the partisan minded sites would be publicising this.
    Conservative blog Order-Order, you mean Guido Fawkes, that explains it, Guido is sonewhat partisan, hardly a reliable source.You wouldn't know that Boris was utterly crushed last week from looking at that site.The reason why the Arab article isn't mentioned further is because it looks a bit dodgy.

    The way the article is written implies that Spinwatch is an Islamist organisation. It is damn well not. It investigates the public relations industry and corporate and government propaganda distort public debate and undermine democracy. It's work includes fracking, revolving door contracts, lack of transpancey in lobbying and other public interest issues. The Islamophobia industry is profitablde and significant. It is quite naturally that organised Islamophobia would draw the attention of Spinwatch.

    Your article mentions 'A meeting in the House of Commons attended by the Labour home affairs spokeswoman, Diane Abbott saw the presentation of a new report containing a series of allegations that Europe’s main initiatives designed to counter the rise of ISIS and other terror groups, were targeted exclusively against Muslims.'

    Spinwatch cites it's main funder for the project as the 'Open Society Foundation', George Soros is not an Islamist ( cue Jewish conspiracy theories).

    A meeting implies a gathering of more than one person. Is there a specific reason why only Diane Abbott is mentioned in your article? Who else were there?

    Here's a picture of that event. In March I might add, so much for this being a current event.

    https://twitter.com/spinwatch?lang=sv

    Can you explain who the other presenters are and why you have not singled those out? I'll give you one for free, Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP.(Lab) (the bearded chap)actually chaired the event. Any reason why a white male should not also be regarded as one of the 'most retarded and vile people',

    Spinwatch also summarised Ms Abbott's contributions thus:' Diane Abbott said the Prevent policy is not keeping people safe and counter-terrorism policies needed to be clear that no community is more liable to violence than any other. She added that bad policies cannot be fixed by simply extending their reach to additional groups.'This looks like fair comment to me, although I disagree with her.As mentioned before, I think these white genocide types need similar treatment, for their own good.

    Parliament’s hearing on Islamophobia was cross-party.

    As far as I can see Ms Abbot either did not attend the backbench committee hearing on Islamophobia or if she did, she made no contribution.I'm going to have to call out your source.

    I'm beginning to wonder therefore if the focus on just Ms Abbott is either politically partisan, or simply racist/misogynist. In your inevititable protestations, you should note the views I mentioned in my previous post.



    The presentation looks 3 years out of date I might add, 'Islamophobia' in the Anglosphere had given way to generic anti-migrant sentiment or white genocide theory a long time ago.
    Last edited by mongrel; September 07, 2019 at 01:26 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  9. #9
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,458
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    A meeting implies a gathering of more than one person. Is there a specific reason why only Diane Abbott is mentioned in your article? Who else were there?
    Yes! She is the Shadow Home Secretary. She’s not just a random backbencher.

    Here's a picture of that event. In March I might add, so much for this being a current event.

    https://twitter.com/spinwatch?lang=sv

    Can you explain who the other presenters are and why you have not singled those out? I'll give you one for free, Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP.(Lab) (the bearded chap)actually chaired the event. Any reason why a white male should not also be regarded as one of the 'most retarded and vile people',

    Spinwatch also summarised Ms Abbott's contributions thus:' Diane Abbott said the Prevent policy is not keeping people safe and counter-terrorism policies needed to be clear that no community is more liable to violence than any other. She added that bad policies cannot be fixed by simply extending their reach to additional groups.'This looks like fair comment to me, although I disagree with her.As mentioned before, I think these white genocide types need similar treatment, for their own good.
    I know the others are Mary Mood, the conspiracy theorist David Miller, and Hillary Aked who also presented the report.

    Spinwatch thanked Lloyd and Abbot for their solidarity on Twitter. I’ve got a problem with them showing “solidarity” with this report.

    Parliament’s hearing on Islamophobia was cross-party.

    As far as I can see Ms Abbot either did not attend the backbench committee hearing on Islamophobia or if she did, she made no contribution.I'm going to have to call out your source.
    Umm what? I never said she did. What source?

    I'm beginning to wonder therefore if the focus on just Ms Abbott is either politically partisan, or simply racist/misogynist. In your inevititable protestations, you should note the views I mentioned in my previous post.

    The presentation looks 3 years out of date I might add, 'Islamophobia' in the Anglosphere had given way to generic anti-migrant sentiment or white genocide theory a long time ago.
    Maybe, I’m arguing in good faith. Maybe, I don’t want a Home Secretary with these views on counter terror tactics.

    Edit: So, I made a mistake. I originally came across news Diane Abbot hosting an event about counter-terror policies with David Miller. Later on I tried to find it and all I could fine on Google was the March event, when actually it’s this from two days ago I was looking for. So:

    Diane Abbot hosted an event two days ago, endorsing a report titled “Leaving the War on Terror – A Progressive Alternative to Counter-Terrorism Policy” published by the transnational Institute. Two sections of it I want to discuss first then we can expand the conversation. Link to report.

    Links: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...ror-look-like/
    https://www.cage.ngo/landmark-study-...-war-on-terror

    So first of all, this report calls for the abolition of designated terrorist org lists.



    Yes, they want to stop proscribing terrorist groups. This thing wants us to repeal almost all of our post-9/11 counter terror legislation.

    Elsewhere in the ‘Leaving the War on terrorism’ report:



    Then it downplays the existence of Islamist groups. This would be our government policy. This is bonkers that Abbott would endorse such a report. It’s also praised by OpenDemocracy and CAGE, a Muslim group.
    Last edited by Aexodus; September 07, 2019 at 07:31 AM.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Yes! She is the Shadow Home Secretary. She’s not just a random backbencher.
    Therefore she has an interest in Home Office Affairs. How is that sinister?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I know the others are Mary Mood, the conspiracy theorist David Miller, and Hillary Aked who also presented the report..
    Good , either you knew or could have found out relatively quickly. So why did you only mention Diane Abbot? As if she doesn't suffer enough unwanted attention already with her infamous collection of hate mail and trolling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Spinwatch thanked Lloyd and Abbot for their solidarity on Twitter. I’ve got a problem with them showing “solidarity” with this report.
    Again you should have mentioned this in the OP rather than focus on the one black female presence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Umm what? I never said she did. What source?.
    You picked an old minor fringe meeting on Islamophobia, barely reported, to single out Abbot, whilst others are discussing the issue forrmally in Commons Commitee (Hansard). Why would that be?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Maybe, I’m arguing in good faith. Maybe, I don’t want a Home Secretary with these views on counter terror tactics.

    And I want a Home Secretary who would clamp down on violence based on incitement of racial and religious hatred and defanging Prevent won't do that. Islamophobia is a serious issue, or did you not pick up that point when 51 people were butchered in Christchurch?

    I 'll take your word for it, but I know you had obscured some key details from your OP, which could have potentially misled the forum.

    One more thing, it is no coincidence that the only paper to pick this up apart from the appaling Guido Fawkes is based in the UAE. Spinwatch published a report critical of that regime and it's lobbying of Cameron against the Muslim Brotherhood and the Qatari regime.
    Last edited by mongrel; September 07, 2019 at 07:07 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Islamophobia is a serious issue
    It can't really be a serious issue, because there is no such thing as "islamophobia", it is an oxymoron in itself.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    It can't really be a serious issue, because there is no such thing as "islamophobia", it is an oxymoron in itself.
    I guess if I painted you brown and placed you in a certain New Zealand mosque at a specific time, say Christchurch, Friday prayers on 15 March 2019, you might have learned something.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    @Aexodous, some amendments I see. You must have hated Mo Mowlam when she brought Sinn Fein/ IRA in from the cold and brought about the Good Friday agreement.
    Last edited by mongrel; September 07, 2019 at 10:50 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    I guess if I painted you brown and placed you in a certain New Zealand mosqu
    You do realize Islam is not a race, right?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    You do realize Islam is not a race, right?
    Mass shooters don't run into bookshops blasting korans and prayer mats. They kill people, like 3 year-old Mucad Ibrahim .

    People follow Islam, they belong to a race of some sort. The vast majority of those encountered by Westerners outside the Balkans are black or brown.
    Last edited by mongrel; September 07, 2019 at 11:51 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Mass shooters don't run into bookshops blasting korans and prayer mats. They kill people.

    People follow Islam, they belong to a race of some sort. The vast majority of those encountered by Westerners outside the Balkans are black or brown.
    And that has to do with Abbot justifying islamist terrorism how?
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; September 07, 2019 at 12:05 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So you are saying it is only okay to target those that are European or Asian? So much for being "anti-racist"...
    WTF does that mean? Please translate into proper English. Actually don't. Having explained that islamophobes target, assault or kill people, usually of a particular nationality or race and always those of migrant origin, I don't think there is anything more you can say.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    WTF does that mean? Please translate into proper English. Actually don't. Having explained that islamophobes target, assault or kill people, usually of a particular nationality or race and always those of migrant origin, I don't think there is anything more you can say.
    "Islamophobia", just like "pedophilephobia" or "mass murder phobia" is not really a thing, since it is quite rational to be aware of dangers presented by such things.
    Also we are yet to see you prove your claim about how Abbot's stance in support of her comrades form ISIS and Al-Qaeda is correct. Do you agree with antifa stance that ISIS and such are "allies against white supremacy"?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    "Islamophobia", just like "pedophilephobia" or "mass murder phobia" is not really a thing, since it is quite rational to be aware of dangers presented by such things.
    Also we are yet to see you prove your claim about how Abbot's stance in support of her comrades form ISIS and Al-Qaeda is correct. Do you agree with antifa stance that ISIS and such are "allies against white supremacy"?
    Islamophobia, an ideology with advocates harm and leads to harrassment assault and murder is definately 'a thing'. I doubt Abbot has any sympaties with SIS and Al-Qaeda, it is unlawful in this country. Would you like to withdraw that slander?

    I see no difference between ISIS/Al Queda and white supremacist terrorism, or as I like to call it just terrorism.Hence I would like Prevent strenghtened. I have the same issue with their supporters, talking of which, I recall your rejoicing when that lady was murdered in Charlottesville.

    I get the civil liberties case against the policy, such laws have been abused, for example migrants who amend their tax returns, quite lawfully can risk being deported by use of an obscure clause in anti-terrorism legislation , but overall, if any group adovacates the killing or removal of people to satisfy the demands of loons, drag them in and lock them up, I say.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Diane Abbott criticises UK counter-terror policies

    Can we move on from the islamaphobia strawman a moment?

    Abbot seems to want terrorist groups seen as acceptable and legitimate organisations? Does anybody else see how stupid this is?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •