Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

[Vanoi]

There are some things you should not joke about. Claiming you yelled "Fire" in a crowded theater as a joke isn't going to cut you much slack with a judge, and explaining it was just a case of poor decision making when you talked about killing the President won't prevent you from getting into a lot of trouble as a result.

Threatening the president or yelling fire in a theatre won't always get you in trouble. Intent is taken into account when dealing with actions and words that stray into the realm of free speech and expression.

Hate crimes require proof.

See how far "I was just joking about killing the President" defense will get you.

Pretty far. You do realize only true threats are actually prosecuted right?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat

Maybe a felony is necessary to drive home the fact this kind of behaviour should not and will not be tolerated. Although I would let the student off with a stiff fine if he puvlically and abjectly apologized.

No need to add to an overburdened jail population. Until the state can prove the boy's intent was to incite racial hatred i doubt he's going to be convicted of anything.

[Common Soldier]

Threatening the president or yelling fire in a theatre won't always get you in trouble. Intent is taken into account when dealing with actions and words that stray into the realm of free speech and expression.

Hate crimes require proof.

It goes without saying,, just like any other crime requires proof. So, looking back, I guess I have to admit bring mistaken.

Pretty far. You do realize only true threats are actually prosecuted right?

Ok, I see I was wrong.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat

No need to add to an overburdened jail population. Until the state can prove the boy's intent was to incite racial hatred i doubt he's going to be convicted of anything.

Yah, you are right, they need to be guilty of a crime. You are right, if the person did not intend to intimidate, then he is really isn't guilty of a crime, but showing had judgment. Ok, I was wrong. Still not something you should joke about.

[Bob69Joe]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Even more absurd is that people are a rabid mob not realizing that what they want is state centralized bureaucracy based on illusions of equality, diversity, and maybe democracy if it doesn't default to communism soon enough. People are forming into crowds, mobs, herds, based around the purely ideological, unrealistic demand for increasing equality in a nation-state that they demand be pluralistic and diverse. America is coming to a point just like Rome and it either goes out fighting for intangible illusions, or gears its best people for the restoration of Western Civilization. It's all too clear that the past 200 years of egalitarian revolution in Europe, including the mid 20th Century that displayed the modern methods of focusing as many people on ideological objectives - negating hierarchy and qualities of thought and ability - were wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone criticizing Europe, including Europeans, are fighting over the scraps of a once great civilization. What comes next is not ideological mandates coming forth from centralized bureaucracies or warlords, but pan-nationalist repatriation.

Anyone have questions not relating to something so personal as a lack of long-term thinking, or extreme individualism?

Someone complained, being a LEFTist, to the school, which is LEFTist run, and the school maneuvered the State or municipal courts, which are LEFTist, about having a fearful disposition to the thought of inequality. This entire case is not about racial equality, but the greater ideological holy war to enforce equality; replacing all customs, heritage, value faiths, and genetic ability to think and act, in all of our lives. LEFTists require a nation of their own set apart from all the nations of the Earth that benefit foremost, above-all, their own genetic lineage, culture, faith, and specific forms of hierarchical social structures. Sorry Europe, equality and democracy was never going to have the final say in how people accept their fates.

[Gromovnik]

I hope he was expelled.

[Ludicus]

If someone hangs a noose in someone else's yard or on their door, it's reasonable to see that as meant to be intimidating, and potentially racially motivated depending on the context.

"Potentially... depending on the context". Complacency to white racism noted.
Allow me to spray a painted swastika on your door. Depending on the context, it could be a joke. To make things even worse, the white supremacist hanged the noose inside the public school.

Swastika Found On Jewish Student Union Sign At Brookline High

The swastika wasn't found on someone's else door, or on your door...following your reasoning we can conclude that it's just an innocent joke. Potentially.

[sumskilz]

"Potentially... depending on the context". Complacency to white racism noted.
Allow me to spray a painted swastika on your door. Depending on the context, it could be a joke. To make things even worse, the white supremacist hanged the noose inside the public school.

Swastika Found On Jewish Student Union Sign At Brookline High

The swastika wasn't found on someone's else door, or on your door...following your reasoning we can conclude that it's just an innocent joke. Potentially.

Apparently you're unaware that people of any race can be hung. One can even threaten to hang someone of their own race. As such, if someone hangs a noose in someone else's yard or on their door, it's reasonable to see that as meant to be intimidating, and potentially racially motivated depending on the context. Exactly as I said.

Your post is also a non-sequitur.

[Ludicus]

Ludicius tends to ignore... Do show some respect when you enter the website if only not to spittle on yourself watching a screen.
http://thecivilright.org

How can I ignore a racist ideology? let's hear your hero- a disgusting racist and anti-semite,How does the Civil Right view other racial and ethnic groups?

we cannot, and we do not, ignore the very clear evidence that efforts to destroy our people and our culture are consistently traced back to Jews, and that Blacks have built an entire business model of playing the victim with our people as the villain

Bob69Joe, go spread hate speech to the Stormfront website.

---

...if someone hangs a noose in someone else's yard or on their door, it's reasonable to see that as meant to be intimidating, and potentially racially motivated depending on the context. Exactly as I said.

The word "Potentially" describes something that could happen or might be true, but its not certain. If someone paints a swastika on you door, or on a synagogue, or on a Jewish Student Union, that means a racial threat.If someone hangs a nose inside a public school, that is a racial threat, it's not a joke, or a "potential threat depending on the context". It's a very clear intimidation.

One can even threaten to hang someone of their own race

Nothing here makes sense.We are talking about racial intimidation. Following your reasoning-once again- it's not impossible to see blacks hanging noses in public schools and Jews painting swastikas on Jewish doors. Not really.
---
Teachers? this is not ignorance. Its inherent racism.
Principal and teachers suspended from California elementary school ...

[sumskilz]

The word "Potentially" describes something that could happen or might be true, but its not certain.

Correct.

If someone paints a swastika on you door, or on a synagogue, or on a Jewish Student Union, that means a racial threat.If someone hangs a nose inside a public school, that is a racial threat, it's not a joke, or a "potential threat depending on the context". It's a very clear intimidation.

I can't tell if the rest of this is just terrible reading comprehension, a strawman, or another awkward attempt to make every thread about Trump and/or Jews. Maybe stick with the former on this one, too much of the whole Jew fixation starts to border on creepy.

[Ludicus]

I can't tell if the rest of this is just terrible reading comprehension, a strawman...

BS.Pure BS.
---
You/we cannot be complacent to white racism- and yes, in my opinion, you are complacent to white racism. You/we can ignore reality, or choose to acknowledge and confront it, Rainn Wilson slams racism denial with a 'chilling' photo of a noose

"So my friend Jamey texted me this photo," Wilson wrote. "Looks pretty innocent at first, right? But when you learn that he and his sister are African American, the photo turns instantly chilling. This was hung in a tree in her front yard in suburban Los Angeles, to be found by her seventeen year-old daughter."

Imagine being a 17-year-old Black American, stepping out your front door, and facing this scene. Would you feel safe? Would you feel protected? Would you feel that America is a place where racism isn't allowed to thrive?
You might feel understandably threatened. You might call the police with your concerns. That's what Wilson's friend did.

"When the police were called they said, essentially, 'what's the big deal?'" Wilson shared. "Yolanda lost it. What's the big deal? "

Well, officer, the noose is the symbol of lynching which was used to hang thousands of African Americans, especially by the Klan. Granted, this is a pretty lame noose. Might have been made by some local kids or something. Who knows. But the fact is it is as strong a symbol of racial hatred, violence and oppression as a Swastika."

----
----

...or another awkward attempt to make every thread about Trump (*) and/or Jews...Maybe stick with the former on this one, too much of the whole Jew fixation starts to border on creepy

Really? Am I anti-semite? No, it does not depend on the context, the halloween is not an excuse, the noose is a hateful symbol of the American history- and the comparison with the swastika is almost inevitable.Read above the underlined text.
The fact that you are a Jew is relatively irrelevant.I mean, Jews are like everyone: historically speaking, Jews took sides in the on the civil rights era (the major part sided with civil rights activists). But in fact it's possible for individual Jews to make common cause with white supremacists.
---
(*) ...and it annoys you.Well, I don't like Trump, the white supremacist.

[sumskilz]

You/we cannot be complacent to white racism- and yes, in my opinion, you are complacent to white racism.

I think the word you're looking for is "complicit". The "logic" of your assertion results in the ridiculous conclusion that if one believes a white person hanging a noose on another white person's door is probably not racially motivated, then one is complicit in white racism.

Context matters, intent matters.





Wanting someone's life destroyed for tying a knot is pretty ed up, even if it was poorly thought out or in bad taste.

[Bob69Joe]

Ludicus, conon, mongrel, sukiyama, y'all can take care of your forum now. Don't mind me.

[Ludicus]

I think the word you're looking for is "complicit".

No, the right word is complacent, permissive.Complicity is another story. And it remains to be seen white people hanging a noose on another white person's door.
-------
Come on, there are no Indian swastikas in the USA or in Europe. That's always the ridiculous excuse of white supremacists here and around the world: "The swastika isn't just a symbol used in Nazi Germany".
--------
And i will tell you what is really"creepy".
It's an enlightening reading experience the way you see Emma Lazarus's Poem on the plaque hanging inside the Statue of Liberty. I'm quoting you,
Jerry Seinfeld On Emma Lazarus's Poem
" can't we just say, "Hey, the door's open, we'll take whoever you got"? ...I mean, why don't we just say, "Give us the unhappy, the sad, the slow, the ugly, people that can't drive...in other words any dysfunctional defective slob that you can somehow cattle prod onto a wagon, send them over, we want 'em."

No, this is not "what Americans think" (sumskilz, sic). Your xenophobic, anti-Muslim,Trumpist half of America, certainly. And this is not what Seinfeld thinks.I watched almost all episodes and the world "Seinfeld" was always mocking had to be mostly white for the powerful satire to work.

[Bob69Joe]

If you please, direct your attention this way: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...sparks-scandal

Secessionism is alive and well in America, and it remains unknown whether you are a mere spectator or a citizen of those States. I support wholeheartedly for minority-majority nations all over the world to have ample discussion in the various groups seceding from the others no matter what they may be, Christians in Kosovo, Armenians in Azerbaijan, all of them need to determine who they are for their progeny to behold the customs by which makes the most sense in a cultural understanding specific to recognition of a living being, a creature born to centuries of lineage, not the generic politics. The best part of secessionism in Current Year 2019, is that it actually isn't about slavery at all, this time! Haha... What is the contention then? "Individualists" and "individualism proper."

[mongrel]

We might have another Basil here.........................................

[Vanoi]

If you please, direct your attention this way: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...sparks-scandal

Secessionism is alive and well in America, and it remains unknown whether you are a mere spectator or a citizen of those States. I support wholeheartedly for minority-majority nations all over the world to have ample discussion in the various groups seceding from the others no matter what they may be, Christians in Kosovo, Armenians in Azerbaijan, all of them need to determine who they are for their progeny to behold the customs by which makes the most sense in a cultural understanding specific to recognition of a living being, a creature born to centuries of lineage, not the generic politics. The best part of secessionism in Current Year 2019, is that it actually isn't about slavery at all, this time! Haha... What is the contention then? "Individualists" and "individualism proper."

Secessionism was far more alive and popular prior to 1860 than it is now. Secessionists should remember how seceding worked out last time.

[Gromovnik]

It wasn't "poorly thought out", the perpetrator did exactly what he wanted to do.

[sumskilz]

No, the right word is complacent, permissive.

Apparently the cognate in Portuguese has some meanings the English word does not (seriously, I looked it up). In English, "complacent" primarily refers to undue self-satisfaction. In any case, I now understand what you meant. It's an obvious mischaracterization of my position. Unless you simply mean that I endorse the traditional American approach to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, wherein offensive speech and expression are protected. Which would be true, though I don't see any reason to believe the guy intended the noose as a racist symbol.

Come on, there are no Indian swastikas in the USA or in Europe.

False, and here is an example of the injustice the approach you seem to endorse produces:

The George Washington University (GWU) has ignored both context and its own promises of free expression by suspending a Jewish student for placing a souvenir Hindu swastika obtained on a trip to India on his residence hall’s bulletin board. The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), along with the student’s attorneys and the Hindu American Foundation, are calling on GWU to revoke the suspension.

On March 16, the student placed a small, bronze, Indian swastika on a bulletin board at GWU’s International House residence hall. He intended to educate his friends and co-residents about the symbol’s origins, which he learned about during a spring break trip to India. The student had learned on his trip that although the swastika was appropriated by Nazi Germany, it has an ancient history in many cultures as a symbol of good luck and success.

After a fellow student reported the swastika to the GWU police department, the university quickly suspended the student and evicted him from university housing, pending the outcome of five disciplinary charges. The university also referred the incident to the District of Columbia police for investigation as a potential “hate crime.”

Now, have a close look at this knot:



What is it a symbol of?

It wasn't "poorly thought out", the perpetrator did exactly what he wanted to do.

There is no evidence that the student expected the noose to be interpreted the way it was, or that it was meant to target anyone. The one witness described it as an impulsive act. He tied a knot in a length of rope and left it where he found it. Maybe we will know more after he appears in court on October 22, if press hasn't lost interest in it.

[Gromovnik]

Oh yeah, it's totally normal to just tie nooses for no reason. Everyone does it.

[sumskilz]

Oh yeah, it's totally normal to just tie nooses for no reason. Everyone does it.

The guy does come across as a bit odd, but wanting someone's life destroyed for behaving oddly is just as ed up.

BWB's post expresses my view on that well-enough:

Apply Ockham's razor, What is more likely, he she it saw a length of rope and thought, I will tie a noose in that rope and the next person to see it will be a little creeped out. Or he she it thought I will tie a noose in that rope, black students will be scared to come to class, because, well, "damn those !"

In the absence of strong evidence for the later, I'm sticking with the former.

[Vanoi]

The guy does come across as a bit odd, but wanting someone's life destroyed for behaving oddly is just as ed up.

I mean what he did was still a poor choice. I'm sure he didn't tie up a noose for the racial hatred but typing up a noose and hanging anywhere is a poor choice in a country with a history of racial problems. Someone going to take it the wrong way.