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Thread: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

  1. #81

    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    I mean what he did was still a poor choice. I'm sure he didn't tie up a noose for the racial hatred but typing up a noose and hanging anywhere is a poor choice in a country with a history of racial problems. Someone going to take it the wrong way.
    Well yeah, I noted that in the post Gromovnik is responding to:

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Wanting someone's life destroyed for tying a knot is pretty ed up, even if it was poorly thought out or in bad taste.
    Although, as I also said in an earlier post, I had no idea until recently that a noose was ever considered a racist symbol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  2. #82
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Well yeah, I noted that in the post Gromovnik is responding to:

    Although, as I also said in an earlier post, I had no idea until recently that a noose was ever considered a racist symbol.
    I certainly don't want to ruin the kids life but poor choices are still poor choices at the end of the day.

    I saw your example. Washington state doesn't have the same history with racial lynchings like much of the US. Washington itself has a pretty low population of African-American population and likley has most of its existence. Not surprised if a noose doesn't garner the same reaction compared to where i live.

  3. #83
    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Weren't mexicans also victims during the late 19 and early 20th century of white lynch mobs?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchi..._United_States
    Last edited by Carmen Sylva; October 15, 2019 at 06:22 AM.
    Christ was crucified, Socrates was poisoned, Phidias was accused of theft - it is almost an honor to be abused by contemporaries.

    Carmen Sylva (1843 - 1916), actually Princess Elisabeth Pauline Ottilie Luise zu Wied VA (Royal Order of Victoria and Albert), German writer and lyricist, by marriage Queen Elizabeth of Romania

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  4. #84
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Not unless diversity and egalitarian government intervention in all aspects of life got to them first. Carmen

    So, the fruits of the past twohundred years of de facto wars for democracy have ended up destroying any moral ethics in America and actually allowed for the only victory in the World Wars to be gained by communists in Russia, and in China only less than half a decade after 1945.
    Gornahoor|Liber esse, scientiam acquirere, veritatum loqui
    Crow states: "If you would be a great leader, then learn the way of the Tao. Relinquish the need to control. Let go of plans and of concepts. The world will govern itself. The more restrictive you are, the less virtuous people will be. The more force you display, the less secure they will feel. The more subsidies you provide, the less self-reliant they become. Therefore the master says: Un-write the law, thus the people become honest. Dispense with economics, thus the people become prosperous. Do without religion, thus the people become serene. Let go all desire for the common good, and the good becomes as common as the grass." ~ Lao Tzu - Tao te tching
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  5. #85

    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Oh, this is a gold mine. So, "diversity and egalitarian government" are targeting Mexican-Americans?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  6. #86
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Oh, this is a gold mine. So, "diversity and egalitarian government" are targeting Mexican-Americans?
    Rep +
    ----
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    In English, "complacent" primarily refers to undue self-satisfaction.
    .
    Strange.I'm puzzled. I don't think so...When someone says:" racism in schools – No room for complacency", what is that supposed to mean?
    --
    As I said before, there is a difference between complacency and complicity. But,the question is: is it a matter of degree? Complacency or Complicity? | YWCA - Eliminating Racism


    Yet if I become complacent – I become complicit in the continuation of the messaging of hate and fear. To be complacent in the wake of a mass shooting, particularly one based on racial or religious intolerance, is to be complicit in marking groups of people as “the other.” It’s to be complicit in enabling the growing racism, intolerance, ethnocentrism, and misogyny that seems to be taking over in so many parts of this country. To quote Elie Weisel, “Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”
    That being said, don't get me wrong: I always enjoy talking/discussing with you. I hope I haven't offended you.
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    We might have another Basil here...
    I don't know why was he banned, so I can't comment...but I don't rejoice.He's been here for a long time...
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 16, 2019 at 11:43 AM.
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  7. #87

    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Strange.I'm puzzled. I don't think so...When someone says:" racism in schools – No room for complacency", what is that supposed to mean?
    Complacent in that context is still referring to undue self-satisfaction, as in saying it's too soon to be congratulating ourselves about having solved the problem, there is still work to be done. The phrase "complacent to racism" doesn't work, it's somewhere between ambiguous and nonsensical. The phrase "complacent about racism" is an incomplete thought, but it get's the point across. The phrase "complicit in racism" means actually participating in it to some degree.

    I'm not easily offended, which admittedly, probably contributes to my lack of empathy for those who are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  8. #88
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The phrase "complacent to racism" doesn't work, it's somewhere between ambiguous and nonsensical.
    l don't think so...
    Cornell president says we cannot be “complacent to racism”
    'SA should not be complacent to racism, economic exclusion' - EWN
    ------
    It does work. Easily Confused Words: Complacent vs. Complicit – Kathleen W Curry
    ------
    Complacent merely describes someone that too comfortable to complain or make a fuss. That's what I said. Is there a better word for someone who is insistently looking for an excuse?
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    "There is no evidence that the student expected the noose to be interpreted the way it was, or that it was meant to target anyone. The one witness described it as an impulsive act. He tied a knot in a length of rope and left it where he found it."
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I had no idea until recently that a noose was ever considered a racist symbol... I'm not sure if that's news to me or if I just vaguely remember it
    For an anthropologist with such encyclopedic knowledge...I'm genuinely surprised. Oh well, I believe you. I know you are not a liar.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I'm not easily offended, which admittedly, probably contributes to my lack of empathy for those who are.
    Well, fine. I'm not a specialist in sneaky remarks.
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 16, 2019 at 03:07 PM.
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  9. #89
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    I don't what to call it, what this has become, this topic, an exercise in rhetoric? Being unable to confront reality, everything beyond the human socially acceptable, either produces in someone a desire to join everyone else, a crowd, in confirming simple and emotional statements, or drives them to their own conclusions which are desperately in need of reference outside of the self and the crowd that protects individuals so long as the rhetoric is confirmed, even, sworn-by to put it another way.

    Yes, it is true, the only stable "platform," or personal stance, world-view, that people are like cattle, pushed into confinement toward ever more aggressively, is to confirm like good little Soviets that government has done no wrong so long as the tokens and symbols are all in place to guarantee that non-judgement for incompetence is delivered to each person. This hopefully resembles drivel, babble from a maniac, because otherwise I can only describe as clearly as I can see it - having been born in 1990s in America to an alienated Armenian existence, with no tangible grasp to a nation or people I can call my own, and having no further connection to relatives and family, all having departed or very much not like what I am, being some Scot-German - which is, diversity and the policies since the civil rights act after the American Civil War have created a hostile environment for the values that were only a century before considered acceptable for all human habitation/cultures. We can keep beating a dead horse, this current government with its insistence on massive cities(utilitarian), diversity, equality, and all the other tokens and symbols that never have or will exist outside the human impulse to form crowds so that individuals glide under the radar of competence.

    Hence forth, refer to me as a pan-nationalist, or whatever. This conversation only shows personal insecurities about existential nonsense that has no place except for beating the dead horse of human equality, rights, diversity, and all the rest. The answers to the troubles of nations and ethnic peoples in whatever enclaves they live in are NOT UNIVERSAL. Please leave your drama off the forum.
    Last edited by Bob69Joe; October 16, 2019 at 03:53 PM.
    Gornahoor|Liber esse, scientiam acquirere, veritatum loqui
    Crow states: "If you would be a great leader, then learn the way of the Tao. Relinquish the need to control. Let go of plans and of concepts. The world will govern itself. The more restrictive you are, the less virtuous people will be. The more force you display, the less secure they will feel. The more subsidies you provide, the less self-reliant they become. Therefore the master says: Un-write the law, thus the people become honest. Dispense with economics, thus the people become prosperous. Do without religion, thus the people become serene. Let go all desire for the common good, and the good becomes as common as the grass." ~ Lao Tzu - Tao te tching
    MONARCHY NATION TRANSCENDENCE

  10. #90

    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Nah, if you read the letter, the Cornell president says "I urge our community to not be complacent", and English is obviously not Baleka Mbete's first language. Maybe it makes sense somewhere along the South African post-creole continuum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Complacent merely describes someone that too comfortable to complain or make a fuss. That's what I said.
    Saying "complacent about racism" is fine for that meaning. It's using "to" as the preposition that doesn't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #91
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Nah, if you read the letter, the Cornell president says "I urge our community to not be complacent", and English is obviously not Baleka Mbete's first language. Maybe it makes sense somewhere along the South African post-creole continuum.
    ...
    Whatever.
    Complacent is a fine word to describe someone who is looking for a genuine excuse,invoking a genuine ignorance.
    ----
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob69Joe View Post
    this current government with its insistence on massive cities(utilitarian), diversity, equality, and all the other tokens and symbols that never have or will exist outside the human impulse to form crowds so that individuals glide under the radar of competence
    ...Please leave your drama off the forum.
    Bob, please leave your ideological rant off the forum. We are talking about racist symbols, that's all.
    But this called my attention,
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob69Joe View Post
    our genetic ability to think and act
    What the hell is that supposed to mean, and to whom are you referring? ( it's a rhetorical question, the "white race", obviously)
    Do you really agree with your intellectual tutor?
    "we cannot, and we do not, ignore the very clear evidence that efforts to destroy our people and our culture are consistently traced back to Jews, and that Blacks ..etc.. "

    In fact, Anti-Semitism begins with the Jews, but never ends with the Jews (says Deborah Lipstadt, an evil Jewish women.)
    ADL is an anti-hate organization. It's quite clear that they intend to destroy the "white race". Let's hear what they say,
    Mainstreaming Hate: The Anti-Immigrant Movement in the U.S. - ADL
    Alt –Right Groups at the Forefront of Anti-Immigrant Activity

    While white supremacist groups remain on the fringes of society, they share certain beliefs with anti-immigrant groups, and often feed off of the anti-immigrant sentiment of groups like FAIR and CIS, which tend to be more nuanced in their language about immigrants. Meanwhile, white supremacists explicitly talk about preserving a white majority in the United States.
    They believe that non-white immigration threatens white American society and culture. They often talk about demographic changes in America and assert that the country is experiencing “white genocide.” They blame Jews for encouraging non-white immigration to this country.
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 16, 2019 at 05:13 PM.
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  12. #92
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    They believe that non-white immigration threatens white American society and culture.
    I had no idea that American culture was based in socialism and atheism.

    Maybe in the 1950s European immigrants were superior, but these days the average European immigrant would gladly vote to ban guns, imprison Christians, and nationalize the economy. They're not exactly fans of America's founding ideals.

    I'll take a Nigerian (Christian) over the average Norwegian any day.

    The Problem with Amy Wax’s Immigration Argument | National Review

    My next objection to Wax is that she wildly overestimates the extent to which European society represents some sort of cultural match with the United States. American culture and European culture have been drifting apart for decades on a key metric — religiosity. Secular nationalists may not care about this, but European-biased immigration is secular-biased immigration, and that will alter American culture in appreciable ways.

    Many Americans don’t fully appreciate just how godless European culture has become. The data are clear and overwhelming. Comparisons between European and American measures of religiosity show that the vast majority of European nations aren’t as religious as the least-religious American states.

    Poland, one of the most religious European countries, would be the 48th most religious American state, just below Connecticut in the percentage of adults who are “highly religious.” Every single other large European nation is far more secular than New Hampshire, America’s least religious state, often by a large margin. A mere 33 percent of New Hampshire adults are “highly religious.” Compare that to 11 percent in the U.K., 12 percent in France, 21 percent in Spain, 27 percent in Italy, 12 percent in Germany, and 17 percent in Russia.

    Let’s put this as plainly as possibly: The intentional Europeanization of American immigration would represent the forced secularization of American culture.
    My final objection relates to one of the core, virtuous objectives of the new conservative nationalism — social cohesion. Perversely enough, the most polarized population in America is the white population. On the Left, the segment of the population that most drives American division are secular, progressive whites. According to the crucial “Hidden Tribes” study of American polarization, left-wing polarization is being primarily driven by a “progressive activist” class that is disproportionately white, disproportionately college-educated, and disproportionately secular. On the right, the activist class is also disproportionately white. America’s black and brown populations are more moderate and more religious than white liberals.

    And where can we find millions upon millions of highly secular white people who are hostile to American notions of free speech and religious freedom? That’s right, Europe. By contrast, where can we find millions upon millions of highly religious individuals who cherish the right to exercise their faith? Africa, Asia, and South America.

    My own views are simple: American culture is so distinct that no single world region mimics it. American culture is so powerful that assimilation is the natural (but not immediate) immigrant process. It’s not the “dirt” that’s magical, but the ideas and opportunity that exist on this dirt are extraordinarily potent. They’ve been potent for more than two centuries, and they remain potent still.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    So you're a size queen? More power to you, man.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  14. #94

    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Whatever.
    Complacent is a fine word to describe someone who is looking for a genuine excuse,invoking a genuine ignorance.
    While it’s no great effort, I’d say that speaking out against irrational authoritarianism and mob justice demonstrates a mild lack of complacency.

    Expelling someone from a public university without due process is unacceptable in my opinion. I expect the felony hate crime charge will likely be dropped. Although I imagine the misdemeanor disorderly conduct could go either way, considering that in Illinois it’s a charge applicable to such heinous acts as listening to loud music or shouting the F word.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  15. #95
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Expelling someone from a public university without due process is unacceptable in my opinion
    You have excellent skills for a successful lawyer career. Trump should have fired Giuliani and hire you right now.You know as well as I do that I'm not talking about laws,regulations and rules.I'm talking conservative/leftist political perspectives.
    When I see a swastika, I wish I could see a symbol of auspiciousness, Woodstock and hippies.
    When I see a noose hanging in public schools and universities, I wish I could see Halloween activities.
    When I look to the to the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty, I wish I could not see sectarian words, written by a Jew for Jews only, or read them through the eyes of the right.
    ------
    The complicated history of Emma Lazarus' “The New Colossus.
    This week, yet another Trump administration official tripped up against "The New Colossus"...This time it was Ken Cuccinelli, acting director of United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, who said that “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” should have an addition, “and who will not become a public charge.”
    There’s an alt-right tradition of aiming right at the poem.
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    "They believe that non-white immigration threatens white American society and culture".....I had no idea that American culture was based in socialism and atheism
    Psss....Prodromos, pay attention, that was written by evil Jews.
    The ADL is international Jewish non-governmental organization based in the United States.
    Correct me If I'm wrong- aren't you a truly admirer of the Israeli Government -Netanyahu? how is it possible to hate Jews and love the state of Israel? the country is home to 17.8 million Jews...
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 17, 2019 at 11:06 AM.
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  16. #96
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    Default Re: Illinois college student charged with hate crime for placing noose on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Psss....Prodromos, pay attention, that was written by evil Jews.
    The ADL is international Jewish non-governmental organization based in the United States.
    Correct me If I'm wrong- aren't you a truly admirer of the Israeli Government -Netanyahu? how is it possible to hate Jews and love the state of Israel? the country is home to 17.8 million Jews...
    What? I was addressing the anti-immigrant talking point in the quote, not the ADL.

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