What do you all make of Tim O'Neil's History fof Atheists?

[Anounder]

https://historyforatheists.com/the-great-myths/

History for Atheists’ “Great Myths” series is a collection of longer articles that addresses the most persistent and widespread myths about history that tend to be used by anti-theist activists. This is an ongoing project, so the list below will be added to as the series continues, with new additions made about every two to three months. Future additions will include:

Hypatia of Alexandria’s murder and the claim she was a martyr for science and learning
The claim that the medieval Church retarded the development of technology and that the Middle Ages was a technically stagnant period as a result
Several articles on the Galileo Affair and its historical, political and cultural contexts and how a caricature of Galileo’s story has come to predominate in popular culture
Articles on the relationship between the Nazi regime and the Papacy and the Christian churches responses to the Holocaust

I say he's done good work. He's taken on New Atheist/Enlightenement propaganda and lies well. Their ilk accuse him of being a believer when they can't address him not being a philistine like they are.

I especially look forward to this:


The claim that Soviet and other twentieth century Communist regimes’ oppression had nothing to do with atheism

Modern Atheists dance around the slaughter done under atheist to deistic men like Hitler, Stalin, etc.

[95thrifleman]

So? Modern christians dance around the slaughter done in the name of christ over the past thousand years. It's an eternal circle jerk with one side pointing to the other's sins and hiding their own.

[basics]

So? Modern christians dance around the slaughter done in the name of christ over the past thousand years. It's an eternal circle jerk with one side pointing to the other's sins and hiding their own.

95thrifleman,

I think one has to differenciate between what was done in His name from what was commanded to be done by Him? Jesus never commanded anyone to kill in His name to my knowlege ever. So, if one accepts that there was and still is false Christianity who do such things and true Christians have had to defend themselves get the argument into some sort of perspective. For example if my family was threatened and them not being Christian I would like to think that I would defend them with all my might regardless. On the other hand if my offspring were to attack someone because of their beliefs how could I possibly defend their actions? So no, we don't or at least I don't dance around these things.

[athanaric]

It all hinges on how you define "atheism", doesn't it? I'd argue that while Marxism, National Socialism, etc. might regard themselves as more or less atheist, they're still creeds, each with their own version of paradise, prophets, etc. Would a truly consequential atheist fall for any of these?
Anyway, I think it's good when lazy thinking or sloppy research get called out, as long as that's not followed by wild accusations or lazy thinking on the "debunker's" side.

[95thrifleman]

National Socialism was an odd duck, it borrowed and stole whatever was required to make the ideaology work. The nazis used the church when it suited "Gott mitt uns" was inscribed onto every wehrmacht belt buckle. Yet the SS was a neo-pagan personality cult.

The fact is, Humans are utter bastards and we use any and every method possible to justify being utter bastards. This is why we have aeroplanes and nuclear fission whle friendlier species are running around in their own personal bambi live action story.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

So? Modern christians dance around the slaughter done in the name of christ over the past thousand years. It's an eternal circle jerk with one side pointing to the other's sins and hiding their own.

They don't dance around, they would exactly do the same like their ancestors, if they are in power again (prohibit evil books, burn witches aka non obedient, non married women, criminalize homosexuality, reintroduce good old family with patriarch on top):

How "enlighted" modern christians really are:

The students at St. Edward Catholic School in Nashville can no longer checkout the popular Harry Potter book series from their school's library.

The seven-book series depicting the magical adventures of a young wizard and his friends was removed from the library because of their content, the Rev. Dan Reehil, a pastor at the Roman Catholic parish school, wrote in an email.
"These books present magic as both good and evil, which is not true, but in fact a clever deception. The curses and spells used in the books are actual curses and spells; which when read by a human being risk conjuring evil spirits into the presence of the person reading the text," the email states.
Reehil goes on to say in the email that he consulted several exorcists in the U.S. and Rome who recommended removing the books.

The pastor was out of the office until Wednesday, but Rebecca Hammel, the superintendent of schools for the Catholic Diocese of Nashville, confirmed Reehil sent an email about removing the books following an inquiry from a parent. He also notified faculty, she said.
The core books, published between 1997 and 2007, were written by J.K. Rowling and spurred a successful movie franchise and a huge following worldwide. Rowling has created additional books and movies within the Harry Potter universe.
The Harry Potter books are considered controversial in some circles, including religious ones.
The Catholic Church does not have an official position on the Harry Potter books, Hammel said. In this situation, the school's pastor does have the final say, she said.


"Each pastor has canonical authority to make such decisions for his parish school," Hammel said. "He's well within his authority to act in that manner."
Hammel said she does think the Harry Potter books are still on the shelves in other school libraries throughout the diocese. In fact, they were in St. Edward's old school library, which was used through the end of the 2018-2019 school year, she said.
But St. Edward, a pre-K through 8th grade Catholic school in South Nashville, just opened a new library in time for the 2019-2020 academic year. The Harry Potter books were removed from the new one, Hammel said.
She said she did not know what, if anything changed over the summer to prompt their removal. Nor was she aware of any other books being pulled for similar reasons.
"I know that in the process they were going through and kind of weeding out some of the content in hopes of sprucing it up and improving the circulation," Hammel said.
Overall, she said the Catholic Church sees parents as their children's primary teachers.
"Should parents deem that this or any other media to be appropriate we would hope that they would just guide their sons and daughters to understand the content through the lens of our faith," Hammel said.
"We really don't get into censorship in such selections other than making sure that what we put in our school libraries is age appropriate materials for our classrooms."
The goal is to promote engaging, quality literature and an enjoyment of reading in hopes of building students' skills and knowledge, she said.


https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news...ol/2168489001/

[Prodromos]

They don't dance around, they would exactly do the same like their ancestors, if they are in power again (prohibit evil books, burn witches aka non obedient, non married women, criminalize homosexuality, reintroduce good old family with patriarch on top):

How "enlighted" modern christians really are:

I remember being 12, too.

[95thrifleman]

This is one of the reasons I dislike christians. The blatant prejudice against gay people becas thier precious book calls for their murder.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

This is one of the reasons I dislike christians. The blatant prejudice against gay people becas thier precious book calls for their murder.

And Death for Wizzzzzards:

A man also or a woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. 3. Mose 20:27

And death for Adultery:

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 3. Mose 20:10

A real book of love...

[Prodromos]

What's unloving about it? Doesn't Germany send people to prison for homeschooling their kids? Why is punishing homeschoolers acceptable but not witches and adulterers?

BTW I thought you were a Marcionist or something like that, so why are you quoting an Old Testament book in a discussion about Christianity? Unless your comment was intended as an attack on Judaism, I guess.

For a real christian only the new testimony is relevant.

Matthew 5, 21-23:

²¹ You’ve heard what was said to the people of long ago, ‘You shall not kill, and anyone who kills will be judged as guilty.’ ²²But I tell you, anyone who’s furious with his brother is judged as guilty, and whoever calls his brother an fool is liable to the Sanhedrin council, and whoever curses people with insults is liable to hell's fire.^[6]

²³ So if you’re at the altar making an offering, and remember that your brother has something against you, ²⁴leave your offering on the altar and go and make peace with him first, and afterward come back and make your offering. ²⁵Agree with your opponent quickly while you’re with him on the way to court, so that he doesn’t hand you over to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer and you’re thrown into jail. ²⁶I tell you the truth, you won’t get out of there until you’ve paid the last penny.

Matthew 7, 1-5:

¹“Don’t judge others, and you won’t be judged. ²For whatever standard you use to judge others will be used to judge you, and whatever measurement you use to measure others will be used to measure you. ³Why do you look at the speck that’s in your brother’s eye, and don’t notice the plank that’s in your own eye? ⁴How are you going to say to your brother, ‘Let me take out the speck from your eye’ when you have a plank in you own eye? ⁵You hypocrite, first get rid of the plank in your own eye, and then you’ll see clearly to take out the speck from your brother’s eye.

[Common Soldier]

They don't dance around, they would exactly do the same like their ancestors, if they are in power again (prohibit evil books, burn witches aka non obedient, non married women, criminalize homosexuality, reintroduce good old family with patriarch on top):

How "enlighted" modern christians really are:

The students at St. Edward Catholic School in Nashville can no longer checkout the popular Harry Potter book series from their school's library.

The seven-book series depicting the magical adventures of a young wizard and his friends was removed from the library because of their content, the Rev. Dan Reehil, a pastor at the Roman Catholic parish school, wrote in an email.
"These books present magic as both good and evil, which is not true, but in fact a clever deception. The curses and spells used in the books are actual curses and spells; which when read by a human being risk conjuring evil spirits into the presence of the person reading the text," the email states.
Reehil goes on to say in the email that he consulted several exorcists in the U.S. and Rome who recommended removing the books.

The pastor was out of the office until Wednesday, but Rebecca Hammel, the superintendent of schools for the Catholic Diocese of Nashville, confirmed Reehil sent an email about removing the books following an inquiry from a parent. He also notified faculty, she said.
The core books, published between 1997 and 2007, were written by J.K. Rowling and spurred a successful movie franchise and a huge following worldwide. Rowling has created additional books and movies within the Harry Potter universe.
The Harry Potter books are considered controversial in some circles, including religious ones.
The Catholic Church does not have an official position on the Harry Potter books, Hammel said. In this situation, the school's pastor does have the final say, she said.


"Each pastor has canonical authority to make such decisions for his parish school," Hammel said. "He's well within his authority to act in that manner."
Hammel said she does think the Harry Potter books are still on the shelves in other school libraries throughout the diocese. In fact, they were in St. Edward's old school library, which was used through the end of the 2018-2019 school year, she said.
But St. Edward, a pre-K through 8th grade Catholic school in South Nashville, just opened a new library in time for the 2019-2020 academic year. The Harry Potter books were removed from the new one, Hammel said.
She said she did not know what, if anything changed over the summer to prompt their removal. Nor was she aware of any other books being pulled for similar reasons.
"I know that in the process they were going through and kind of weeding out some of the content in hopes of sprucing it up and improving the circulation," Hammel said.
Overall, she said the Catholic Church sees parents as their children's primary teachers.
"Should parents deem that this or any other media to be appropriate we would hope that they would just guide their sons and daughters to understand the content through the lens of our faith," Hammel said.
"We really don't get into censorship in such selections other than making sure that what we put in our school libraries is age appropriate materials for our classrooms."
The goal is to promote engaging, quality literature and an enjoyment of reading in hopes of building students' skills and knowledge, she said.


https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news...ol/2168489001/

And books like Mark Twain's Huckelberry Finn have been banned because those on the left did not like its contents. Contrary to the myths those of the left like to spread, they are just as prone to censorship as anyone. But unlike actions like the banning of Harry Potter, the media just doesn't spend much time reporting it when it is the left doing the censorship.

[basics]

The biggest problem mankind has is his rejection of God which is caused not by the reading of books, rather the rejection of one book in particular. That book is what is causing the reaction we see in these threads especially the misinterpretation of it. As far as I am concerned it is the very word of God yet it doesn't stop me reading other books. Fiction is just that, fiction, and as long as I don't replace God's word with anything written in them I have no problem with that. In other words God is still the centre of my world so that it is to Him that my worship goes. Would I know anything of the history of my country or the world were I not to read of it and now with the advent of TV and internet not see it? Of course not but I would have a problem if any of them turned me away from my Saviour and Lord. That's not going to happen. Therefore it is up to any parents to tell their children what is fairy tales and what is real.

[95thrifleman]

The biggest problem mankind has is his rejection of God which is caused not by the reading of books, rather the rejection of one book in particular. That book is what is causing the reaction we see in these threads especially the misinterpretation of it. As far as I am concerned it is the very word of God yet it doesn't stop me reading other books. Fiction is just that, fiction, and as long as I don't replace God's word with anything written in them I have no problem with that. In other words God is still the centre of my world so that it is to Him that my worship goes. Would I know anything of the history of my country or the world were I not to read of it and now with the advent of TV and internet not see it? Of course not but I would have a problem if any of them turned me away from my Saviour and Lord. That's not going to happen. Therefore it is up to any parents to tell their children what is fairy tales and what is real.

I tell my daughter about how the bible is a fairy tale, fulfilling my paternal duties.

[basics]

I tell my daughter about how the bible is a fairy tale, fulfilling my paternal duties.

95thrifleman,

Of course you probably don't tell her that you think it is a fairy tale yet you cannot prove it so where will that leave you if she should question your unproven fact to be a lie? Will you be proud of yourself?

[Muizer]

I think one has to differenciate between what was done in His name from what was commanded to be done by Him? Jesus never commanded anyone to kill in His name to my knowlege ever. So, if one accepts that there was and still is false Christianity who do such things and true Christians have had to defend themselves get the argument into some sort of perspective.

I get what you mean, up to a point. However, historically speaking the fact that there are Christians today is the product of an unbroken tradition going back to the days of Christ himself. In that sense, disowning past versions of Christianity as not being 'true' is somewhat paradoxical, because it means your true Christianity of today is the descendant of untrue Christianity Incidentally, the consequence is that your 'true' version of Christianity may some day in the future itself be branded 'untrue' in turn.

[Common Soldier]

I tell my daughter about how the bible is a fairy tale, fulfilling my paternal duties.

Which parts of the Bible are youngoing to say are fairy tales? The Babylonian capture of Jerusalem and itz taking the Jewish leadership back to Babylon is pretty well established historically. The existence of Ahab and his father Omri also have ancient records establishing their existence. Pontius Pilate really was the Roman governor of Judea, that isn't a fairytale either.

And Proverbs is just a book of traditional folk wisdom, but you can't really call it a fairytale, even if you regard most of its advice as bad. Psalms is just a book of poetry, so do you call Emily Dickenson's work fairytales too?

Like or not, the stories of the Bible have shaped our culture, and even if we reject them all, shouldn't she at least know them? Just as I think an educated person should know the stories of Homer Iliad and the Odyssey.

[Prodromos]

I get what you mean, up to a point. However, historically speaking the fact that there are Christians today is the product of an unbroken tradition going back to the days of Christ himself. In that sense, disowning past versions of Christianity as not being 'true' is somewhat paradoxical, because it means your true Christianity of today is the descendant of untrue Christianity

This criticism only applies to high church denominations (like the Roman Catholic Church), which claim an unbroken tradition with no changes in doctrine and no errors taught from the beginning right up to the present day. It's a valid question to ask, how does a Catholic square Exsurge Domine, which condemned the proposition "That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit" as an error, with Dignitatis Humanae, which affirms religious liberty? They can't both be true if the Roman church has never changed its doctrines. Of course Catholics have developed answers to these questions, which may or may not be convincing.

However, in low church denominations (mostly Protestant), Scripture is the rule of faith. If a Christian from an earlier era held to an erroneous belief, we're under no obligation to follow in their footsteps. We take the good and leave the bad. Only Scripture is infallible, not man-made tradition. So our religion isn't rooted in e.g., Martin Luther's teachings, but in the divine revelation committed to us in Scripture. We accept teachings in agreement with Scripture and reject the rest.

Incidentally, the consequence is that your 'true' version of Christianity may some day in the future itself be branded 'untrue' in turn.

Since a Christian is accountable to God alone, it makes no difference what other people, Christian or not, think of us, as long as they leave us alone to worship as we see fit. If they persecute us for having different religious beliefs, like by establishing a state church and enforcing conformity, then obviously we'll defend ourselves.

[basics]

I get what you mean, up to a point. However, historically speaking the fact that there are Christians today is the product of an unbroken tradition going back to the days of Christ himself. In that sense, disowning past versions of Christianity as not being 'true' is somewhat paradoxical, because it means your true Christianity of today is the descendant of untrue Christianity Incidentally, the consequence is that your 'true' version of Christianity may some day in the future itself be branded 'untrue' in turn.

Muizer,

No, Christianity goes all the way back to the prophecy God made at the fall of man although in those days they weren't called Christians, rather saints and what is clearly seen from these writings is that salvation comes only from God Himself despite what any man has done. This process still goes on explained by the New Testament writers who were witnesses to all that was fulfilled in Jesus Christ in the Old Covenant. The Law hasn't changed as it still condemns man so it was Jesus Christ's action on the cross that fulfilled for those He died for to take that yoke off their backs. Once born again the new Christian is obliged to maintain the Law because in practise Jesus did in taking their punishment for them so there's no contradictions between the Old and New Covenants at all.