New Unit - Help!

[Lusitanio]

If you have been following this forum for some time, you might know that I've done a good amount of work trying to add a new unit for Carthage, which is basically a spearmen veteran unit based on Hannibal Veteran Africans.

Thanks to the contributions of Wermez (who did all the work modelling the unit and textures), Adalingum (who helped a lot with the files in order to be able to have the unit in the game), Midnite (who gave permission to use his shield textures from DBM) and others just as Quintus and Gigantus who gave some suggestions and helped clearing my doubts, I have now the unit implemented in my build.
However, there is some problem with the textures in the unit that I don't know how to solve and I really need help from someone who understands. It is the only thing stoping the release so if you have some good understanding of how textures and unit models work, please send me a pm.

[Mr. Blob]

Alletun's Tome of Knoweldge:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1672

Texture files must have height and width in the base of 2, for instance 1024, 512 (pixel's) etc. They must be of the same size (all 4 of them), etc. You have to check whether each of their texture's UV map is on the right place in the texture file, every single one. Use Milkshape's texture editor only for moving UV maps and nothing else, because it's crap. If you need to unwrap the model and create new UV maps you must use 3d studio max. If you don't have 3d studio max then: rutracker.org.

I am a beginner in creating unit models, but my starting place was aforementioned manuel by Alletun.

All the best.

P.S. Use this for conversion of mesh to ms3d and texture to dds: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-On-06-06-2015

[Lusitanio]

The unit is ready to go to battle!
It is finally finished! While there are still things that I would like to change and/or improve, I'm not going to wait for months for it. But if someone is interested in helping, contact me! Anyway, I will release the files either today or tomorrow so that everyone will be able to have the unit in their build.

You can see the unit here:
https://imgur.com/a/5KtGxN3

[roberts193]

Great job. Thank you.

[Lusitanio]

Unit ready to download in my submod page: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...Revenge-submod

Follow the instructions and have fun!

[moisesjns]

AWESOME! i was really sad at the Carthage army because i had to wait 100 + turns to get my "roman armored" troops. I wish there was a way to make units get a Armor bonus after battles like they do with experience. It only makes sense to me that an army as it defeats the enemy begins to take their equipment especially if its chain mail from Romans.

[Lusitanio]

AWESOME! i was really sad at the Carthage army because i had to wait 100 + turns to get my "roman armored" troops. I wish there was a way to make units get a Armor bonus after battles like they do with experience. It only makes sense to me that an army as it defeats the enemy begins to take their equipment especially if its chain mail from Romans.

Well, you still have to wait 100+ turns to get this unit in the game x) And the recruitment is so low that it will take a lot of time for you to have two units in the same army, but they are beasts. Stats related, they are similar to the Elite Hellenic Spearmen (forgot the name), but they have three advantages, the ability to throw javelins, their superior numbers and a great morale. If you fight against them, they will surely be the last unit to break.

It only makes sense to me that an army as it defeats the enemy begins to take their equipment especially if its chain mail from Romans.

It does make sense and that is also why the current Carthaginian reforms only trigger after you fought 5 battles with Rome. Defeated armies would also try to adopt the enemy weapons. However, most of the Carthaginian reform is more related with the wars in Spain and the increasing use of thureos in the Mediterranean. Only the use of chain mail and other Roman armour is clearly mentioned as being taken by the Carthaginians after being victorious in battle.

[QuintusSertorius]

They appear to be a Carthaginian version of the Thorakitai - both from their equipment and description.

[Lusitanio]

They appear to be a Carthaginian version of the Thorakitai - both from their equipment and description.

On the equipment the Thorakitai Epilektoi have one point of advantage due to they having chainmail but also other types of armours but the Exalted/Elite African Infantry compensate with one more point for their shields.

About the description, I failed to read the Thorakitai description, I will read to see what you mean Quintus x)

But since we are talking about these two units, I did a custom battle recently, Seleucids (player) vs Carthaginians (AI) and I had the Thorakitai facing the Elite Africans. The fight went well, the Thorakitai lost 2/3 units at first because the Africans throwed their spears at them, but once they started fighting it was balanced all the way to the end, of course, due to the Africans superior numbers they would win. But my armies routed the Carthaginian armies easily and while they were the last ones still holding, once a phalanx unit started attacking them from behind, they routed.

[QuintusSertorius]

On the equipment the Thorakitai Epilektoi have one point of advantage due to they having chainmail but also other types of armours but the Exalted/Elite African Infantry compensate with one more point for their shields.

About the description, I failed to read the Thorakitai description, I will read to see what you mean Quintus x)

But since we are talking about these two units, I did a custom battle recently, Seleucids (player) vs Carthaginians (AI) and I had the Thorakitai facing the Elite Africans. The fight went well, the Thorakitai lost 2/3 units at first because the Africans throwed their spears at them, but once they started fighting it was balanced all the way to the end, of course, due to the Africans superior numbers they would win. But my armies routed the Carthaginian armies easily and while they were the last ones still holding, once a phalanx unit started attacking them from behind, they routed.

The Thorakitai Epilektoi are a royal guard, this unit doesn't seem to be an equally elite equivalent. They're veterans, but that makes them similar to the Thorakitai, who are also professionals.

[Jervaj]

The Thorakitai Epilektoi are a royal guard, this unit doesn't seem to be an equally elite equivalent. They're veterans, but that makes them similar to the Thorakitai, who are also professionals.

A question. What unit in fits best this african infantry that formed the core of Annibal's and other carthaginian armies at the time and that eventually became this group of often remarked loyal african veterans that updated their equipment? Dorekim Afriqim? They are mentioned to be heavy compared to other units or mercenaries and, although average in stats, thats the only really heavy infantry in the Carthaginian roster until the reforms is that one alongside the elite sacred band that was too scarce for that. I guess maybe their overall higher loyalty its what amde them stand out, and with enough experience they did become very effective.

[Lusitanio]

The Thorakitai Epilektoi are a royal guard, this unit doesn't seem to be an equally elite equivalent. They're veterans, but that makes them similar to the Thorakitai, who are also professionals.

I will have to read about the Thorakitai. Since I have been playtesting for so much time, I simply stoped reading the descriptions because I don't have time for that x)

But while I do agree that they are not royal guard, they are the product of being mobilized for active duty for decades in the Carthaginian military in active wars. After Hamilqar disembarked in Iberia, the troops there were in constant conflict with the Iberian tribes, translating in the expansion of the Carthaginian territories. When the time of Hannibal arrived, he had already years of experience as cavalry commander and knew what his army was capable of. This guys are not just veterans, they are the veterans of the veterans x) In Hannibal times they proved that they were some of the most disciplined troops in history.

Just a remark, Carthaginian veterans seem to have been of a really higher quality then other Carthaginian troops. We can see that from the Punic-Greek wars, especially when Agathocles saw that we could not defeat the experienced Carthaginian armies in Sicily and invaded Africa where he would face less experienced troops. Then again the Mercenary troops that faced the Romans during the Siege of Lilybaeum, when they came back to Carthage to be paid, they felt sufficient powerful to challenge Carthages itself, they lost more due to bad leadership then their own quality. And the Second Punic war gives us plenty of examples between the differences of experienced Carthaginian troops and regular troops.

A question. What unit in fits best this african infantry that formed the core of Annibal's and other carthaginian armies at the time and that eventually became this group of often remarked loyal african veterans that updated their equipment? Dorekim Afriqim? They are mentioned to be heavy compared to other units or mercenaries and, although average in stats, thats the only really heavy infantry in the Carthaginian roster until the reforms is that one alongside the elite sacred band that was too scarce for that. I guess maybe their overall higher loyalty its what amde them stand out, and with enough experience they did become very effective.

You said it. Dorekim Afriqim when you need heavy infantry. Later on, as the Carthaginian armies evolve, you have the Libyan Swordsmen and the Dorekim Afriqim with chainmail. The Late Libyan Spearmen don't have chainmail. The sacred band is a unit that you should use in the African core regions (mostly to defend Carthage and Atig) and in Sicily on special occasions (like a big Carthaginian invasion).

[QuintusSertorius]

A question. What unit in fits best this african infantry that formed the core of Annibal's and other carthaginian armies at the time and that eventually became this group of often remarked loyal african veterans that updated their equipment? Dorekim Afriqim? They are mentioned to be heavy compared to other units or mercenaries and, although average in stats, thats the only really heavy infantry in the Carthaginian roster until the reforms is that one alongside the elite sacred band that was too scarce for that. I guess maybe their overall higher loyalty its what amde them stand out, and with enough experience they did become very effective.

Pretty much as Lusitanio says:

You said it. Dorekim Afriqim when you need heavy infantry. Later on, as the Carthaginian armies evolve, you have the Libyan Swordsmen and the Dorekim Afriqim with chainmail. The Late Libyan Spearmen don't have chainmail. The sacred band is a unit that you should use in the African core regions (mostly to defend Carthage and Atig) and in Sicily on special occasions (like a big Carthaginian invasion).

The "reformed" units fit that slot.

I will have to read about the Thorakitai. Since I have been playtesting for so much time, I simply stoped reading the descriptions because I don't have time for that x)

But while I do agree that they are not royal guard, they are the product of being mobilized for active duty for decades in the Carthaginian military in active wars. After Hamilqar disembarked in Iberia, the troops there were in constant conflict with the Iberian tribes, translating in the expansion of the Carthaginian territories. When the time of Hannibal arrived, he had already years of experience as cavalry commander and knew what his army was capable of. This guys are not just veterans, they are the veterans of the veterans x) In Hannibal times they proved that they were some of the most disciplined troops in history.

Just a remark, Carthaginian veterans seem to have been of a really higher quality then other Carthaginian troops. We can see that from the Punic-Greek wars, especially when Agathocles saw that we could not defeat the experienced Carthaginian armies in Sicily and invaded Africa where he would face less experienced troops. Then again the Mercenary troops that faced the Romans during the Siege of Lilybaeum, when they came back to Carthage to be paid, they felt sufficient powerful to challenge Carthages itself, they lost more due to bad leadership then their own quality. And the Second Punic war gives us plenty of examples between the differences of experienced Carthaginian troops and regular troops.

Similarly, the Thorakitai represent the best-trained and best-equipped regular Hellenistic forces. There's a justification for a high armour value of 8 or 9 for this unit, since they have a lot of gear, but otherwise I'd expect their stats to be equivalent to the regular Thorakitai. Not equivalent to the Epilektoi, who are the best of the best.

[Lusitanio]

Anyway, here are some images of the updated version: https://imgur.com/a/8rTQew5
And the images of the older version in case you want to compare: https://imgur.com/a/5KtGxN3

[Rad]

We have some interesting times ahead, it seems

[paleologos]

I am happy to announce that your request for a couple new Carthaginian shields has been met.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to rearrange the textures on the texture map for your unit as this would also require a complete rework of the UV map.
I just don't have the time to do all that.
Here is the link, right click on them and select download image, feel free to use, with acknowledgement.

[Lusitanio]

I am happy to announce that your request for a couple new Carthaginian shields has been met.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to rearrange the textures on the texture map for your unit as this would also require a complete rework of the UV map.
I just don't have the time to do all that.
Here is the link, right click on them and select download image, feel free to use, with acknowledgement.

Those are great! Thanks! +1 rep from me.
I will see if Alondite can take care of it.

Thanks a lot

[Lusitanio]

Updates on the unit!

Thanks to Paleologos, the unit will have two new shield designs from him. Sadly, Paleologos symbols in the shield were too centered and when displayed in the game, the shield boss covered them. But I discussed how to make it better with Alondite and we reached a good position for the symbols, thanks to Alondite skills of course. Meanwhile, we are taking some time to add more diversity to the unit. They have now another helmet, this helmet actually was in the first version of the unit but didn't look very good, so now it is back with a different colour that looks great! The greaves are now coloured in either silver or gold, instead of just gold. It also has another face.
One of the new shields, the dolphins shields, has been improved and I asked Alondite to add a palm tree in the middle which he did and looks even better now. We are now discussing the design of a new shield to the unit and when it is finished, I will release the new version of the files. Praise Alondite great work

Thanks to the discussion with Quintus and Jervaj, I reduced the unit costs, it is only 2000 mnai now. Because the current EBII 2.35 version has most of the elite units with the highly_trained, the unit will also have the highly_trained stat. It will be changed when the new patch for EBII arrives.

[Lusitanio]

Final update, download the file here: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/down...o=file&id=4482
As I said, all of this is thanks to Alondite great work and Paleologos. Extract to your EBII folder, replace the older files and have fun!

[Lusitanio]

I've got something to ask you guys. I've considering giving this unit the legio attribute so that when they are recruited in New Carthage, they will have a Legio identification. This way the player can follow the new units until the end of the game and always know who were the first recruited there. It could also be a tribute to the Hannibal Veteran Italic troops that fought in Zama. Any opinions?

It would be something like Legio I: Karthadastim, Legio II: Karthadastim, Legio III: Karthadastim, Legio IV: Karthadastim, Legio V: Karthadastim, etc...