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Thread: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

  1. #1
    Libertus
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    Icon11 When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    normally I just choose occupy when conquering new settlements but I'm aware that having too many foreign population can cause trigger some bad debuffs for your faction, looting can generate some wealth but you also lose money since you have to then repair the buildings
    Last edited by lordgeorgr141; August 19, 2019 at 03:59 AM.

  2. #2
    waidizss's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    If you hover over, you see 3 stats. Mon$y, conquest penalty, and static penalty (decrease by 1 each turn. It will also tell you what will happen to population and buildings. When you are on a rapid conquest (a campaign), you want to raze it kills the pop (means u can easily repopulate it with your own, 1/2 class pop instead of mass of peasants) and it pacifies the territory. You want to occupy territory that already is dominated by your pop and you can take the PO loss. You want to loot when you are going to hold on to it etc. ~
    Buildings repair themselves over time, and you may want to raze them anyway so might as well take the extra cash. Basically just think what are you doing, how many turns you need to do it and other factors like can you post several generals with high perks to pacify while your army moves on forth etc.
    Hover over the damn effects, damn it.
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  3. #3
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Basically what has been said above, just one more detail. Lottong means also enslaving the population which can give some nic eco boost in neighbouring provinces. However, too much looting and you're looking at high PO malus due to slaves. I am rarely razing since you i) don't generate loot income ii) can't get slaves iii) can't get further cash from destroying unnecessary buildings (which is almost always the case since AI can't handle province management at all). However it can be used to quickly pacify a region if you are already swimking in cash amways. And as already said, repopulating the region with your own citizens is so much easier when the previous inhabitants are all dead

  4. #4
    Libertus
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordling View Post
    repopulating the region with your own citizens is so much easier when the previous inhabitants are all dead
    I actually did not know that, playing with alexander submod and I hated how slow it takes to replenish, well now I guess it's time to turn Anatolia to a massive Persian graveyard

  5. #5
    waidizss's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Also consider that sometimes you might just want to liberate, honestly. They keep your borders secure for a while before you want to move into the territory. Subjugating, though, not worth it for the short term. Yes, corners can be subjugated so you can trade with them in the long term but I often prefer cashmoney over subjugation cause that makes my borders tidy and neat. But hey depends on the RP you are doing. Check what buildings (if you can) are present in the region cause sometimes you just need toconvert the building but often times AI spams trash buildings and that's why I raze and loot. Depending on whether I need that PO or not.
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  6. #6
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Quote Originally Posted by lordgeorgr141 View Post
    I actually did not know that, playing with alexander submod and I hated how slow it takes to replenish, well now I guess it's time to turn Anatolia to a massive Persian graveyard
    It stems from overcrowding malus mechanic - if a city has high population then the population grows slowly due to the overcrowding penalties. If population is drastically low, ovecrowding does not apply and hence it goes up fast and it goes up fast with your citizens

    If you take a city and don't raze you still have high foreign population which inhibits the growth of other pop classes due to aforementioned overcrowding malus. Foreigners obviously dwindle over time if your culture is the dominant one however just slaughtering foreigners makes tjhe process faster :p
    Last edited by Nordling; August 19, 2019 at 07:03 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    So killing all the foreigners makes it easier to repopulate with my own people? Fascinating....

  8. #8
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadetNewb View Post
    So killing all the foreigners makes it easier to repopulate with my own people? Fascinating....
    Yeah, the Population system is still difficult to accept for me.

    Two other quirks:
    - there're AoR units tapping from the 4th class (foreigners). Sometimes they have lower morale but in general you can find very good quality units. As the 4th class is numerous after the conquests, I recruit my armies from the foreigners.
    - the 1st and 2nd classes have minimum replenishment after the conqests (it'd done to kick the process of repopulation). I'm using the system by recruiting units drawing on these classes for number of turns after the conquests. Perhaps 1 unit every two turns but still it's better than to do it in your core lands where there's no such a big bonus like +100 a turne, and they provide for better economy.

    All in all, while PoR2 system is much better than the lack of it in the Rome2 vanilla, it's much inferior to the Medieval 2 recruitment pools system.

    On liberation - this is perhaps the best way to secure your borders, I do it many times becasuse with the limited number of armies in Rome2 you have to limit your front to the maximum and then use "sniping groups of armies" tactics to take out the other enemies (and to expand). It's why factions in the middle of many others are the hardest to play (Scordisci or Arverni) - they find it difficult to secure their borders in time. (again, both exploits - liberation and sniping groups - don't exist in the Medieval 2 engine - well, it has it's own, other quirks and exploits ;-)

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    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; August 21, 2019 at 04:03 AM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    It isn't perfect, but given the circumstances, it's definitely better than vanilla. I'll definitely start putting this to the test and see where I can take it.

    EDIT: Well, I occupied Camulodunon about maybe 3-5 turns ago, and then razed Din Eiden maybe another 3 turns ago? Well, Din Eiden's got the larger Patricii, Pleb and Proletarii population right now despite being taken more recently. On the other hand, it's also all too likely that my armies replenished from the fledgling population while passing through, something that can't be helped. Will still keep an eye on this.
    Last edited by CadetNewb; August 21, 2019 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Update

  10. #10
    Black_Rider's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    What is the difference between subjegation and liberation ? If you liberate a region a new country will be your client state or something ?

  11. #11

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    No, liberating restores or creates a new family of the first occupying faction. So for example, if Rome has fallen to another faction, liberating Rome will restore Rome as a faction if it has been destroyed, or spawn a 2nd Roman faction if the Roman faction is still alive at that moment. Some can also be emerging factions, for example liberating Judea creates a Judaic faction) or liberating some towns in Southern Italy will spawn italic factions. The liberated faction will have a military alliance and military access pact with you. So you can for example disrupt your enemy by not occupying some of their towns, but turning them into extra allies instead.
    Last edited by Dardo21; August 22, 2019 at 06:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Black_Rider's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    No, liberating restores or creates a new family of the first occupying faction. So for example, if Rome has fallen to another faction, liberating Rome will restore Rome as a faction if it has been destroyed, or spawn a 2nd Roman faction if the Roman faction is still alive at that moment. Some can also be emerging factions, for example liberating Judea creates a Judaic faction) or liberating some towns in Southern Italy will spawn italic factions. The liberated faction will have a military alliance and military access pact with you. So you can for example disrupt your enemy by not occupying some of their towns, but turning them into extra allies instead.
    Ok, so why choose liberation instead of subjegation ? Is subjegation turn defeated faction into your client state ?
    Last edited by Black_Rider; August 22, 2019 at 03:02 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Yes, or a satrapy depending on your diplomatic options. Liberation restores an old faction or creates a new one, subjugation preserves an existing one as your client/satrapy.

  14. #14
    Black_Rider's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    So, I think that is better to have client state than faction with a millitary alliance ?

  15. #15

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    One positive aspect of liberating is you can usually form a trade deal and take the maximum payment from them for it.

  16. #16

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Rider View Post
    So, I think that is better to have client state than faction with a millitary alliance ?
    Yes, but bear in mind that if you make a client state by subjugation they will have a huge opinion malus against you due to losing the last war. If you end up in another war before that malus has faded, the client state will often refuse to join you which causes them to no longer be your client, and often to DoW on you.

    As a liberated military ally gets a major opinion bonus for the liberation, they will tend to be more reliable allies with a shiny green face. So less risk of being stabbed in the back at the same time as another faction is throwing all their armies at you.

    Also, with a military ally, you can choose whether or not to call them to war when attacked, thus reducing the risk of the alliance breaking if they don't follow you into war. With a client state, I believe they are always called to war even if you choose not to ask them, and thus there are more opportunities for the client relationship to break.

  17. #17

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Another consideration in occupying and looting is whether the settlement has the same cultural buildings as you. So if you are Ptolemy attacking the Seleucids, looting settlements means you have to pay much of the loot to repair the Hellenic buildings.

    If you are attacking Carthage, on the other hand, you can't use their Punic buildings so would have to convert them anyway, so looting gives you the cash to do that asap. The exception being the capital, where the Cothon and city centre don't need to be converted by any faction IIRC.

    In a similar vein, if the settlement you conquer has lots of buildings you don't want (barracks in a province you won't use for recruiting, for example), then you will probably demolish them after conquest. In this case, loot away as you won't need to pay to repair those buildings.

    So from a financial point of view, consider the large extra money gained from looting, against the cost of repairing or converting any buildings in the captured settlement.

  18. #18

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swarbs View Post
    If you are attacking Carthage, on the other hand, you can't use their Punic buildings so would have to convert them anyway, so looting gives you the cash to do that asap. The exception being the capital, where the Cothon and city centre don't need to be converted by any faction IIRC.
    Carthage uses Hellenistic buildings so you don't need to convert them except for unique buildings like temples and mercenary barracks.

    I do a similar thing where if they use the same buildings I occupy then just delete the barracks that the AI builds in every slot they can. If they don't use the same buildings then I sack then raze, giving me enough money to build new ones and clears pop for citizens.

  19. #19

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    I know this is off topic but while we're on the topic of cultural and city specific buildings: Does Syracuse have a building unique to it alone? On a previous play through I thought there was one in the form of a library of syracuse or something like that but in my current campaign as Rome, I razed it as advised here to speed up the cultural conversion (was 65 percent punic as carthage had controlled the city for quite a while) and no such unique building could be built. Am I imagining things? Or is there some kind of bug where razing the city makes constructing such unique buildings impossible?

  20. #20

    Default Re: When should I occupy and when should I loot settments?

    Unique buildings are tied to the faction(s) itself, if you destroyed it then you can't get it back as Rome. I think Syracuse has a special capital though.

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