Should male and female sports be combined?

[NorthernXY]

The U.S. women's soccer team is campaigning for equal pay. Title IX requires there to be at least one female sports scholarship for every male. Football and men's basketball are the only sports that pay for themselves, the rest are funded by increased student tuition, donations, and money made by the two sports mentioned.

The reasoning behind it is that the U.S. women's team has more wins than the men's. Female senators have also attempted to resolve this issue.
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2019/07...a-stars-774618

With women in the military now fighting with men in active war zones, isn't it more sexists to have different leagues?

I thought I understood the basic fundamentals of life, but this equal pay movement is leaving me to question everything I know. The 2017 U.S. women's soccer team comprised of the best female soccer players from across the U.S. was defeated by an under 15 boys team from Dallas. Given that the boys defeated the women, I don't understand why they aren't also demanding the boys make a salary greater than what they earn.

Some argue that the pay gap is due to a lower revenue generated from lower interest, and that equal marketing spent would result in equal revenue.

I don't understand their thought process. I have to assume they are stupid or they want their male counterparts and/or tax payers to pay for the disparities (something I consider evil). The logic being used leads to heads of marketing for small construction companies being payed the same as their counterparts who work the biggest construction companies.

My only logical solution is to combine male and female sports so women can be given the opportunities they say is being denied to them.



-Thread moved to the academy. ~Abdülmecid I

[Love Mountain]

No, they shouldnt be. Professional sports is mostly a commercial venture.

[Odenat]

I read about this issue a few weeks ago and i had difficulty understanding these people's problem. Even male players in the same team does not have equal pay. Even if male and female sports be combined, then females won't make as much money as they won't be the stars of the team.

[NorthernXY]

That's my point. I don't understand how they can't understand it. A while ago John McEnroe was asked if Serena Williams is the greatest tennis player of all time and he said she'd be ranked around 300 in modern men's tennis. He was condemned for being sexist. Some time later I think she warmed-up/practiced with a low ranking men's player who she makes more than and got beat.

It's such a simple concept I refuse to believe they are that stupid. The only solution is they know what they're saying and are trying to see if they can force others to give them money because they think they can get away with it. I was one of the best players on my high school football team, but I played on the offensive line so our horrible quarterback got more praise. I understood why and I was only 16.

[Dekhatres]

yes, for demonstrational purposes, though i am not sure even reality can convince some people at this point

[Prodromos]

Yes. Men and women are the same, so there's no reason to have one league for men and another for women. We wouldn't tolerate having one league for whites and another for blacks. Everyone should compete in the same league.

Likewise, men and women applying to join the military, police, etc. should be held to the same physical standards, and only the best of the best should be allowed to join.

[QuintusSertorius]

Don't be ridiculous, no.

The only effect of that would be to abolish women's sports, since in very few instances are there women able to compete with men at the highest level. Look at Olympic records, or even the results of timed sports as an example. If women were in the same events, many wouldn't even qualify, never mind be in contention for the medals.

Women should be able to participate and compete in elite sports. In order for that to continue, the segregation into men and women's events should be maintained.

[Knight of Heaven]

Yes. Men and women are the same, so there's no reason to have one league for men and another for women. We wouldn't tolerate having one league for whites and another for blacks. Everyone should compete in the same league.

Likewise, men and women applying to join the military, police, etc. should be held to the same physical standards, and only the best of the best should be allowed to join.

It is a lose lose scenario, whatever your stance you take they are going to paint you as a misogynist transphobe bigot anyway.

[Aexodus]

If men and women shared a soccer league it would be a disadvantage for women. It would also cause problems in the world cup as some countries would refuse to play against women.



Is there anyone here who wants to make the case for paying male and female footballers the same? Personally I disagree, because they are different sports. It’s irrelevant what each team is paid to the other because it has nothing to do with them.

[Stario]

If they combined- all the women would be on the bench (or just dropped outright from the squad in favour of males).
This being true in any sport...

It is what it is...men and women are not the same.

[NorthernXY]

Don't be ridiculous, no.

The only effect of that would be to abolish women's sports, since in very few instances are there women able to compete with men at the highest level. Look at Olympic records, or even the results of timed sports as an example. If women were in the same events, many wouldn't even qualify, never mind be in contention for the medals.

Women should be able to participate and compete in elite sports. In order for that to continue, the segregation into men and women's events should be maintained.

I'm not being ridiculous, it's the only logical solution to the problem they're addressing. Female athletes want the same reimbursement as male athletes, which college players have been getting since Title IX. They demanded others pay for their college tuition, like a restaurant chef that make meals nobody wants to eat so the restaurant doesn't make enough to pay the chef the salary he/she thinks they deserve. So they passed a law that forces tax payers and profitable restaurants to give them money.

When someone purposes something ridiculous, logical responses will be cast aside because reason isn't the foundation the discussion.

Separate but equal was done away with decades ago because things cannot be separate and equal. So let's no longer separate athletes according to their sex and female athletes will get the equal pay they desire.

People on here seem to understand the pay differences. Women either aren't intelligent enough to understand or are trying to use the concept of equality to promote inequality. I'm trying to decide whether it's the former or the latter.

EDIT: Why was this moved to a forum that gets considerably less traffic and thus less likely to be discussed?

[Love Mountain]

I'm not being ridiculous, it's the only logical solution to the problem they're addressing. Female athletes want the same reimbursement as male athletes, which college players have been getting since Title IX. They demanded others pay for their college tuition, like a restaurant chef that make meals nobody wants to eat so the restaurant doesn't make enough to pay the chef the salary he/she thinks they deserve. So they passed a law that forces tax payers and profitable restaurants to give them money.

This is a fallacious analogy. Female athletes want equal compensation because college is an educational facility, not because they "deserve" it. It's about equal access to education on the basis of scholarship. Your video, is about WNBA which is completely different.

When someone purposes something ridiculous, logical responses will be cast aside because reason isn't the foundation the discussion.

Separate but equal was done away with decades ago because things cannot be separate and equal. So let's no longer separate athletes according to their sex and female athletes will get the equal pay they desire.

On the basis of race.

People on here seem to understand the pay differences. Women either aren't intelligent enough to understand or are trying to use the concept of equality to promote inequality. I'm trying to decide whether it's the former or the latter.

It isn't about intelligence. Though I appreciate your sexist sentiments. It's about different goals. Athletes are compensated relative to their market power, which is inherently unequal. Feminist critique of this inequality is not market-based, it's based on social standing and the point of athleticism in public education. They're not too stupid to understand the current system, they disagree with it. But that's for college.

In terms of professional sports, there is a mismatch there as well.

USWNT Players File Gender Discrimination Lawsuit Against U.S. Soccer

In 2016, five players—including Carli Lloyd, Alex Morgan and Hope Solo—filed a wage-discrimination action against the federation with the Equal Employment Opportuinity Commission. The players cited figures from U.S. Soccer's 2015 finanical report to argue that, despite generating nearly $20 million more revenue than the U.S. men's team that year, the women were paid about a quarter of what the men earned.

Personally, I'd sue their agent, but what this shows is that the issue is far more nuanced than the Black/White narrative you've been pushing in this thread.

[NorthernXY]

This is a fallacious analogy. Female athletes want equal compensation because college is an educational facility, not because they "deserve" it. It's about equal access to education on the basis of scholarship. Your video, is about WNBA which is completely different.



On the basis of race.



It isn't about intelligence. Though I appreciate your sexist sentiments. It's about different goals. Athletes are compensated relative to their market power, which is inherently unequal. Feminist critique of this inequality is not market-based, it's based on social standing and the point of athleticism in public education. They're not too stupid to understand the current system, they disagree with it. But that's for college.

In terms of professional sports, there is a mismatch there as well.

USWNT Players File Gender Discrimination Lawsuit Against U.S. Soccer



Personally, I'd sue their agent, but what this shows is that the issue is far more nuanced than the Black/White narrative you've been pushing in this thread.

An education is the compensation for adults playing sports in college. Claiming athletes are compensated relative to their market power completely contradicts forcing colleges to have an equal number of female athletes and compensate them equally to athletes with higher market power. Women's badminton gets the same compensation even though it exists to create more scholarships for women because they are women. There isn't a demand for it large enough to justify its existence like football and men's basketball can claim. Should janitors be paid the same as deans because it's an educational facility? Should there be equal numbers of deans and janitors even if the university doesn't need that many deans? Why not give scholarships to every athlete in high school, regardless of sport or athletic ability, that way they all have equal access to education on the basis of scholarship? We've already established athletes don't need to have the same marketable ability to be compensated equally.

Tuition prices are increased to pay for athletic scholarships (facilities, coach salaries, travel expenses, etc) for athletes that don't generate enough income to pay for their existence. Which decreases the access to education for others.

Separate but equal should only apply to race? Are we allowed to separate homosexuals and trans people?

Female athletes can't compete with men so they have a different league. Rational people understand that and sports fans want to watch the best athletes compete against each other. It's the same reason minor league players get payed less, because they are less talented. We don't value them equally just because they want society to.

[Love Mountain]

An education is the compensation for adults playing sports in college. Claiming athletes are compensated relative to their market power completely contradicts forcing colleges to have an equal number of female athletes and compensate them equally to athletes with higher market power. Women's badminton gets the same compensation even though it exists to create more scholarships for women because they are women. There isn't a demand for it large enough to justify its existence like football and men's basketball can claim.

The goal of college sports is to promote athleticism. Of course, the reality is that college sports exist merely as an advertisement and revenue machine for their colleges (despite many teams not being profitable). Moreover, there is a difference in compensation, namely in the numbers.

Should janitors be paid the same as deans because it's an educational facility? Should there be equal numbers of deans and janitors even if the university doesn't need that many deans? Why not give scholarships to every athlete in high school, regardless of sport or athletic ability, that way they all have equal access to education on the basis of scholarship? We've already established athletes don't need to have the same marketable ability to be compensated equally.

There is a difference between student services, and actual campus jobs.

Separate but equal should only apply to race? Are we allowed to separate homosexuals and trans people?

You've hit a controversy and difficulty. That's precisely it. Many, including myself, believe that trans people pose a challenge as far as athletics go.

Female athletes can't compete with men so they have a different league. Rational people understand that and sports fans want to watch the best athletes compete against each other. It's the same reason minor league players get payed less, because they are less talented. We don't value them equally just because they want society to.

The US Soccer leagues are run by the same organization. Moreover, it's not about athleticism, but about the money. Women's soccer generates more revenue than men's soccer, yet men still get paid more.

[NorthernXY]

The goal of college sports is to promote athleticism. Of course, the reality is that college sports exist merely as an advertisement and revenue machine for their colleges (despite many teams not being profitable). Moreover, there is a difference in compensation, namely in the numbers.



There is a difference between student services, and actual campus jobs.



You've hit a controversy and difficulty. That's precisely it. Many, including myself, believe that trans people pose a challenge as far as athletics go.



The US Soccer leagues are run by the same organization. Moreover, it's not about athleticism, but about the money. Women's soccer generates more revenue than men's soccer, yet men still get paid more.

The goal of "amateur" sports is the same as "professional" sports. The University of Texas football team is more valuable than most NFL teams, making over $120M/year. Different colleges are rated differently and have different tuition rates, making scholarships at different places have different compensation values. All colleges have to have at least as many athletic scholarships for women as they do men, so there isn't a difference in the numbers. Unless I read that wrong.
https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2016...revenue-profit

I'm not a fan of sports in general and think colleges forcing students to pay for men's sports is equally bad.* However if a male sport is deemed too much of a drain it can be cancelled and doesn't have to be replaced by another sport with an equal number of scholarships for males. The same isn't true for female sports.

*A year ago the dean of the university I attended canceled wrestling and replaced it with baseball because the wrestling team was in the red and baseball would be more financial solvent. Except according to NCAA reports, the average baseball team cost is even more of a drain on finances. He also got the state board of education to approve of immanent domain on three privately held properties to build the baseball stadium he deceived others to get.

If U.S. women's soccer league players are being compensated unfairly they should strike like other sports have, and other professions do. I've mostly heard news equal pay for the women's World Cup earning $131M and the men's $6B, with male players being compensated with a lower percentage of income.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/08...omen-make-men/

[Basil II the B.S]

yes, for demonstrational purposes, though i am not sure even reality can convince some people at this point

Round ing 2:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...U-15-boys.html



Noteworthy to mention the ''factcheckers'', which rate it as ''decontextualized'' on the basis that... it was a ''friendly'' so the womyn didn't put much effort. As if all age difference/gender difference games aren't friendlies.
https://www.truthorfiction.com/was-t...-soccer-match/

Zero liberal intellectual integrity. For the sake of ''equal pay'', the pay of an under-15 team of a mediocre league like the US is probably 0, so that's more or less the value of the US women national team. Their equal pay should be capped to 0 max.

Now, for the sake of seeing demented liberal feminists like Megan Rapinoe getting humiliated, I'd scrap the separation. Make women compete against not just boys, but full adult men. Basically no woman will make it above the third or fourth league. The funny thing is that liberals would likely counter that by forcing ''women representation in top leagues'', thus obligating teams to play 50% women, basically destroying the game. So yeah, nah.

My girlfriend also does sports, she enjoys it and has no dumb demands like this and I know most women think the same, so it's probably better if only dumb feminists are obligated to play against men until they are humiliated sufficiently.

[Love Mountain]

The goal of "amateur" sports is the same as "professional" sports.

It's not. If it was, they would cancel their teams because half of them lose money.

The University of Texas football team is more valuable than most NFL teams, making over $120M/year. Different colleges are rated differently and have different tuition rates, making scholarships at different places have different compensation values. All colleges have to have at least as many athletic scholarships for women as they do men, so there isn't a difference in the numbers. Unless I read that wrong.
https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2016...revenue-profit

Only 20 NCAA teams are profitable. The NCAA manages almost 1300 schools. There are different leagues obviously, but the point is made. If college or "amateur" sports was about the same thing as "professional" sports then they would've shut most of them down a long time ago.

I'm not a fan of sports in general and think colleges forcing students to pay for men's sports is equally bad.* However if a male sport is deemed too much of a drain it can be cancelled and doesn't have to be replaced by another sport with an equal number of scholarships for males. The same isn't true for female sports.

*A year ago the dean of the university I attended canceled wrestling and replaced it with baseball because the wrestling team was in the red and baseball would be more financial solvent. Except according to NCAA reports, the average baseball team cost is even more of a drain on finances. He also got the state board of education to approve of immanent domain on three privately held properties to build the baseball stadium he deceived others to get.

And this is based on what school policy or long-term observation?

If U.S. women's soccer league players are being compensated unfairly they should strike like other sports have, and other professions do. I've mostly heard news equal pay for the women's World Cup earning $131M and the men's $6B, with male players being compensated with a lower percentage of income.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/08...omen-make-men/

I don't understand your point here. They filed a lawsuit. Which, by the way, is what you're supposed to do if you feel you've been treated unfairly. Like I said before, professional sports is a commercial operation. Athletics in education, is completely different and "claims" to fulfill different goals.

Quite frankly, I also find women whining about equal pay in sports to be ridiculous. I don't really give a , but I'm not going to be suggesting that their leagues should be dissolved, that they are "stupid", or that they should be glad they're getting paid something. Their complaints are understandable, and it's a shame that the economics don't make their situation ideal. "Too bad, so sad."

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

Only if it is for a practical display of why the participants are not and will not be equal at a fundamental biological level.

[NorthernXY]

One of the reasons some give for college sports is that they are advertisement for the university. Which college higher-ups hope will translate to higher enrollment and higher salaries for themselves. There are over a dozen head football coaches that make more than $5M a year. In most states they're the highest paid government employee. Colleges care more about making money than educating.

Only 20 PROGRAMS at least broke even not teams, which is due to football and men's basketball that support the others that don't make money. As I pointed out, corrupt deans will add/keep sports because they're fans, not because it will be a positive for students and the community. Colleges claim sports teach leadership, internal strength, and other BS. If that was a reason to keep college sports, they would require all students participate in sports like they require students take a certain amount of credits in different subject areas because they say it makes better students.
https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/...216840515.html

It's based on Title IX like I said.

Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play;

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/...-questions#how

[Ludicus]

Women's soccer generates more revenue than men's soccer, yet men still get paid more.

In the US ?
But, it seems that...There's no 'pay gap' in professional football - spiked

The Women’s World Cup doesn’t generate anywhere near as much money as the men’s.I wonder how many of those complaining about the pay gap actually attend or watch women’s professional football on a regular basis? One of the major factors that separate men’s sports and women’s is a not so little thing called revenue. To put it bluntly, female football players, just like female basketball players and female hockey players, are paid less because their respective sports draw smaller audiences and therefore make less money.

for instance, the total prize money for the Women’s World Cup in France this July was $30 million. The total prize money for the men’s 2022 World Cup in Qatar will be $440 million. This sounds like a criminal gap. But when you take into account how much money each competition generates, women actually make proportionately more than men.

As an article in Forbes points out, the 2015 Women’s World Cup brought in almost $73million, of which the players got 13 per cent. The 2010 men’s World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which only nine per cent went to the players. Last year, the men’s World Cup in Russia generated over $6 billion total in revenue but the participating teams shared only $400 million of that – less than seven per cent of the overall revenue. Meanwhile, the 2019 Women’s World Cup made somewhere in the region of $131million, doling out $30million – well over 20 per cent of collected revenue – to the participating teams.

--

I don't understand how they can't understand it.

I understand where you're coming from...