how does dei compared to europa barbarorum II

[jonhgalt]

well i have this question for a while, i have read about both, and what i found is: most people thing that the main difference are the games they are based, i want to know from people that have played europa barbarorum II and DEI ¿what are the main differences? becouse it seems that they are the better mods for the ancient rome epoch.

[Jake Armitage]

Dresden won't be happy about this thread...
Man, you have a thread 2 posts before where chief is gently asking not to do comparisons.

Anyway, since they are based on different games (I know quite much about M2TW modding) this is what I can tell you:
M2TW is worse in any aspect which is not building system, recruitment based on culture %, BAI and obviously map editing. Many of them are really important but there is nothing you can do and complaininig is completely useless.
The scripting possibilites with Rome 2 lua are light years better than M2TW. And regarding the db system (ported into PFM/RPFM) let you do many things more about many specific features.
Honestly, it's 4 years I don't open M2TW (even if guys have continued working on many mods) and I don't think I'll ever open it in the future.
99% of the possible new mechanics have already been discovered and differently applied for M2TW. While for Rome 2 (and newer games) there is still a lot to work to do (mostly thanks to lua).

Said that, I've never played EBII but if you don't have much experience with M2TW I would really advice you to play with it, I'm sure the gameplay experience is great.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I hope Dresden will be ok if we remain restrained in expressing our emotions ;-)

I think everybody has it's own preferences and sense of immerssion and I find mine quite different from Jake's. I don't feel history and role-playing in R2TW, I prefer the setting of the M2TW engine. I like the operational dimention of the movement, the system of the pools of recruits, the behaviour of troops on the battlefield, the and the historical lore of the EBII. I admit that diplomacy is better dealt with in the R2TW, while the BAI after KAM's changes is actually the best among TW games.

All in all, I'd suggest playing both mods for some time and then draw own conclusions.
JoC

[Jake Armitage]

Yeah I get what you say, I'm sure the only videogame I've finished in the last 6/7 years is a submodded TATW campaign and I can state that M2TW is the best videogame I've experienced after my teen years have ended.
Fact is that I've abused playing it so I don't really think I will find any interest into playing it again, just different environments.

Regarding BAI I was speaking about the scripted part, in M2TW you can change some AI behaviours via scripts, in Rome 2 you cannot, the only lua functions released are conditions, so you can script a lot of "if" but nothing after "then" (so they are actually and completely useless)

[Dresden]

So I ask to limit comparisons so we get 2 threads with them in 2 days During a major release no less. Anyway...

This mod's original team was directly inspired by Europa Barbarorum and the insanely immense project/effort that simply will never be matched again in my opinion. I don't even think its a comparison to be had other than if you want to discuss the engines/limitations.

[Icarus Smicarus]

Both are great.

EB has advantages in some areas and visa versa for DEI. These are mostly because of the different engines.

Trait system definitely goes to EB2 as the MTW2 engine has a lot more possibilities in this area.

Population system is more detailed and certainly better in DEI.

Battles are about the same as both have different kinds of wonkiness. Siege battles are nightmarishly long in EB2.

Units are superbly made in both.

A lot more factions to choose from in DEI as MTW2 engine has limits in this regard.

Try both! play both! It's hardly a contest.

[PietrolEremita]

The one thing where mtw2 engine is unbeatable is the support of mods that require changing the map (lotr, got). We might never get a new tatw mod, sadly

[Jake Armitage]

I remember a couple of years ago there was a team who, through hex editing, was trying to do a sort of lotr conversion about attila's map.
Man, I really respect everyone's work but in the same time I can' understand how a user would have enjoyed that mod while having Aragorn garrisoned in Naples or Elrond in Switzerland...

[jonhgalt]

So I ask to limit comparisons so we get 2 threads with them in 2 days During a major release no less. Anyway...

This mod's original team was directly inspired by Europa Barbarorum and the insanely immense project/effort that simply will never be matched again in my opinion. I don't even think its a comparison to be had other than if you want to discuss the engines/limitations.

i apollogize dresden, i didnt want to bother the forum. I just saw the ancient empires comparison and i wanted to know what about EBII

[Falco]

Considering they aren't even for the same game, you can't really compare them.

[Dresden]

i apollogize dresden, i didnt want to bother the forum. I just saw the ancient empires comparison and i wanted to know what about EBII

It's fine, I was joking Like I said in the other thread, as long as its a civil discussion then I have no problems with it.

[Dago Red]

Good grief! What everyone else said + amazement at timing with ALEXANDER just released.

This mod's original team was directly inspired by Europa Barbarorum and the insanely immense project/effort that simply will never be matched again in my opinion. I don't even think its a comparison to be had other than if you want to discuss the engines/limitations.

This could be the final word on this topic, to be reposted every 2 years or so.

For my 2 cents -- and given that every now and then I'm reminded of EBII from my sig -- while MtW2's engine is superior in every way, it's now 2019 and the graphical limitations are too extreme. The massive amount of work DeI has done to bring the horribly inferior base game of Rome 2 close to EBII's standard's is astounding and now overall a better gaming experience IMO.

If R2 had Empire's naval game for this team to mod, there would be no contest for me in terms of entertainment value. Sadly, the naval game is still borked (CA's fault). If you want to go really deep into a historical game and don't care as much about graphics/spend time maxing out the graphics mods, EB II is well worth the effort. But otherwise, what we have right here is a gift to humanity. And DeI just needs GEM/reshade and a music mod of your choice (also just correcting CA).

[Geleco]

I think EB2 has the better campaign map by far. Something about Rome 2's campaign map just feels... off.

Also the music for both is kind of meh, the EB2 music is a mix of good and absolutely horrible tracks (some of the barbarian music still gives me nightmares). Rome 2's music is just okay, it's a bit too minimalist and not enough loud horns for my taste.

[Dardo21]

MtW2's moddability, in terms of the map, but also in terms of the versatility of building options for example, gives you a much more immersive experience in terms of developing settlements, as well as the information that's given per region, simply because the game allows you to build a dummy settlement that's simply meant to display said information. I don't think the combat is neccesarily superior to Rome 2, especially after Kam's work, but when you're comparing the basegames, you can hardly say that Rome 2 was much of an improvement in that department.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I haven't played EBII for that long, but when it comes to combat I can definitely say that I prefer DeI's one, especially when it comes to the Hellenistic factions. EBII was built on the Kingdoms engine which from what I recall, doesn't have the proper pike combat mechanics and that's clearly the problem for EBII team, which is, of course, quite understandable. DeI's pike combat mechanics are far superior in that regard and the best I have ever seen in any TW game.

[Swarbs]

MtW2's moddability, in terms of the map, but also in terms of the versatility of building options for example, gives you a much more immersive experience in terms of developing settlements, as well as the information that's given per region, simply because the game allows you to build a dummy settlement that's simply meant to display said information

This is true, although M2's limitations, in terms of the playable faction and unit roster hard caps can also lead to a much less immersive experience. I haven't played EBII all that much, but whatever faction you start with, the early game is very much steamrolling as many 'rebel' settlements and blobbing as fast as possible which limited immersion for me. Particularly when compared to DeI when even taking out a single settlement faction is a challenge which requires good tactics and strategy, combined with solid preparation.

Also the combat in the M2 engine is more predictable after a while. Whilst the BAI can be modded, this doesn't result in as dynamic behaviour as one would like, and tactics such as pin and flank work in pretty much every battle, at least those I've played.

Not a criticism of the mod itself, but just noting that the M2 engine has limitations that, depending on your perspective, are as limiting as the R2 one. So more a criticism of CA for giving with one hand (removing faction and unit caps), and taking away with the other (limited cities and no map modding).