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Thread: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

  1. #181
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    I mean wife is a harsh mistress on silence when we watch something and chatter about after but even she joined into MST 3K mode at around the mid mark.
    Speaking of Mystery Science Theater 3000, those guys make fun of movies now for Rifftrax. I don't hate the movie, but seeing a Rifftrax version mocking it the whole time is about the only way I'd give this movie another watch beyond maybe seeing it again right before watching the proposed sequel. Who knows when that'll be dropped or released in theaters! Probably not for another three or four years, especially if Villeneuve dedicates time to other projects like Cleopatra, as I've mentioned.

  2. #182
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Who knows when that'll be dropped or released in theaters! Probably not for another three or four years, especially if Villeneuve dedicates time to other projects like Cleopatra, as I've mentioned.
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  3. #183
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    You are obsessed with Cleo, aren't you?
    Yes, but in this case she's actually relevant to whether or not a Dune sequel will be made any time soon.

    With Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, and Dune, Villeneuve has firmly established himself as a Sci-Fi director, and his other films are thrillers set in modern times, including Enemy, Prisoners, and Sicario. Doing a sweeping epic movie like a biopic on Cleopatra set in Hellenistic/Roman times would certainly be unfamiliar territory for him, not sure if it would turn out well or not. Oda does bring up valid concerns about casting. I just hope he or his casting directors don't miscast a muted brooding Ryan Gosling as Mark Antony or something.

  4. #184
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Speaking of Mystery Science Theater 3000, those guys make fun of movies now for Rifftrax. I don't hate the movie, but seeing a Rifftrax version mocking it the whole time is about the only way I'd give this movie another watch beyond maybe seeing it again right before watching the proposed sequel. Who knows when that'll be dropped or released in theaters! Probably not for another three or four years, especially if Villeneuve dedicates time to other projects like Cleopatra, as I've mentioned.
    Rifftrax ... Been watching those with my kids in the evening while we work on various hobbies. Yor Hunter from the future almost had me choking on the snack I was eating I was laughing so hard at one series of jokes. It might more funny for me since I could recall staying up late to watch on late night cable back in the day with friends.
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  5. #185
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Question like said before both my wife an I read the first and kinda skimmed the next maybe 2... so... and a while ago say HS.

    Not quite sure but watching the this latest version I was struck by what looks like a plot hole that maybe I forgot from the book. The house H seems to be pre Imperial orders ruling both its Home planet and Dune with only one son at risk and the other heir back at home with the Baron (is he a brother or a bit more distant). At least that is how I recall the book. But for some reason the Duke decamps with all his house to Dune. His consort, son (only son) and all his top inner circle. Seems damn stupid and aside from the book requires it. it does not mesh with the nature of the politics presented. Either the Duke or Paul should have stayed. I mean its not like Dune could support much in the way of a whole planet of people. and if you know its a trap you at least force the enemy to act on two fronts one where you can be a hell of lot more sure locals are loyal.
    Last edited by conon394; November 09, 2021 at 03:49 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #186
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    The house H seems to be pre Imperial orders ruling both its Home planet and Dune
    Yes, House Harkonnen is, at the start of the novel/movie, entrusted with administering Arrakis as well as their home world of Giedi Prime. However the Padishah Emperor is fearful of the Atreides because they're super cool and diplomatic and stuff and the Emperor is afraid that they have the potential of organizing the Landsraad against the Emperor and perhaps put and Atreides instead of a Corrino on the throne for the first time in 10s of thousands of years. Hence him giving Arrakis to the Duke Atreides to try to trick him into a less secure position, but the Duke feels he can outsmart the Emperor and the Baron.

    with only one son at risk and the other heir back at home with the Baron (is he a brother or a bit more distant).
    The Baron does not have any children of his own. Feyd-Rautha is his favored nephew and heir (played by Sting in the 1984 Lynch version and thus far not depicted in Villenueve's version). Rabban, the Baron's nephew, is who is entrusted with administering Arrakis on the Duke's behalf due to his brutality. This is the big pale dude who is played by Dave Bautista.

    But for some reason the Duke decamps with all his house to Dune. His consort, son (only son) and all his top inner circle
    I'm a bit confused here since you went from talking about House Harkonnen seemingly to talking about House Atreides.

    The reason for moving the house seat to Arrakis is given in the book - the Emperor distrusts the Atreides and suspects they want the throne. The Duke Leto is aware that the Emperor plans to betray him and lend Sardukar to the Harkonnens. He also suspects that the Sardukar are so powerful and skilled because of their vicious warrior upbringing on Salusa Secundus. Leto surmises that the Fremen, having a similar (though much harsher) upbringing would be even more naturally capable warriors. This last bit is even mentioned in the movie, and is part of the Duke's motivation to dispatch Duncan to make friendly with the Fremen as well as making friendly with Stilgar (the book expands a bit more in that regard, especially the dinner scenes).

    I mean its not like Dune could support much in the way of a whole planet of people
    It absolutely could. There are cities built on Arrakis that, according to the Baron, house 5 million people. Additionally, the number of Fremen living in the desert is around 10 million. By the time of the next few novels there are far more people than that living there. I mean, it's not like Arrakis isn't getting off world supplies. They have a load of trade coming in and out of the planet due to the spice, so they have no issues buying the things they don't produce natively (and based off the Fremen it would seem there isn't much they can't produce natively with sufficient effort).

    one where you can be a hell of lot more sure locals are loyal.
    There is no planet in the known galaxy who's population is more openly hostile to the Harkonnens than Arrakis, and given what Leto suspects about the Fremen's natural fighting abilities where better to go than a planet with 10 million highly skilled warriors who hate your enemy even more than you do?
    Last edited by Akar; November 09, 2021 at 04:42 PM.

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  7. #187

    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    delete

  8. #188
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Yes the book takes a little time to unfold the cause of event. For example the move from Caladan to Arrakis is a massive promotion, because of the huge profits to be made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    ... the Emperor is afraid that they have the potential of organizing the Landsraad against the Emperor and perhaps put and Atreides instead of a Corrino on the throne for the first time in 10s of thousands of years. Hence him giving Arrakis to the Duke Atreides to try to trick him into a less secure position, but the Duke feels he can outsmart the Emperor and the Baron....

    There is no planet in the known galaxy who's population is more openly hostile to the Harkonnens than Arrakis, and given what Leto suspects about the Fremen's natural fighting abilities where better to go than a planet with 10 million highly skilled warriors who hate your enemy even more than you do?
    I read the book again last year:

    spoilers
    Thufir hawat explains to his new boss the baron
    The Padishah Emperor turned against House Atreides because the Duke’s Warmasters Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho had trained a fighting force-a small fighting force-to within a hair as good as the Sardaukar. Some of them were even better. And the Duke was in a position to enlarge his force, to make it every bit as strong as the Emperor’s
    ...because he had access to the Fremen on Arrakis.

    In the book Harkonnen attacks the Atreides by undermining their leadership group by corrupting the Doctor, and blaming Jessica so Hawat turns on her.
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  9. #189
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Rabban, the Baron's nephew, is who is entrusted with administering Arrakis on the Duke's behalf due to his brutality. This is the big pale dude who is played by Dave Bautista.
    Why are oppressive brutes always white? Isn't that racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    It absolutely could. There are cities built on Arrakis that, according to the Baron, house 5 million people. Additionally, the number of Fremen living in the desert is around 10 million.
    To be honest, 15 million people is not "A whole planet of people". Saudi Arabia and Australia, both not Planet-sized and mostly desert, have twice as many people.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  10. #190
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    I believe that's actually how he's described in the books.

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  11. #191

    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Why are oppressive brutes always white? Isn't that racism?
    The Harkonens were mostly Slavic, soviet inspired. The Baron name is Vladimir after all. I dont think white oppressors and ethnic oppressed is what the story is all about.

    The Freeman is basically islam. And if you know its history, you know its going to lead to holy wars, conquest and death, etc. The book its a cautionary tale about charismatic leaders, but also religion, or ideology, basically any kind of boxes we as humans like to put ourselves into, and how inevitably failed us.

    If white colonizers is the issue, you will find just the same or worse from from ethnic peoples in this story.

  12. #192
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Why are oppressive brutes always white? Isn't that racism?
    explain how that would be racism

  13. #193

    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    explain how that would be racism
    I suppose the same reason it would be, if depicting black people in certain stereotypical roles. Thugs and such. I think that is the logic at least.

  14. #194
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    I suppose the same reason it would be, if depicting black people in certain stereotypical roles. Thugs and such. I think that is the logic at least.
    non-white people have generally appeared in the roles of thugs, barbarians, and any other type of "negative" character.
    white people have appeared in all kinds of roles (villains, heroes...) because until very recently the overwhelming majority of roles and actors were white.

    alhoon comment is totally ridiculous and I don't see your logic anywhere. I cannot understand how it would not seem very problematic to you guys if in a current film a fictional faction or kingdom whose characteristics were all negative were composed of a group of people with a long history of having been attacked or oppressed. Maybe in your ideal world the Harkonen should have been described as a faction of gay people of color.

  15. #195
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    ... Maybe in your ideal world the Harkonen should have been described as a faction of gay people of color.
    If they would have pink hairs too, they would be the arch villains.

    What i don't like on the Lynch movie and similar american books mostly, is the Messiah role for Paul Atreides.

    Messiah plots are so boring.
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  16. #196
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Extremely hackneyed stories, I guess we really love (or need) "leaders of men" and messiahs.

  17. #197
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    2000 + years of the adventures of 'Jesus' would beg to differ..

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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    More the cinemas on December 12

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  19. #199
    John Doe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Alexander defeated the gordian knot

    Someone was suppose to bring balance to the Force.

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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Dune 2020 by Villeneuve has finished filming

    Someone was suppose to bring balance to the Force.
    2 Sith left 2 Jedi left.

    Seems balanced to me

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