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Thread: The Democrat betrayal of the working class.

  1. #1

    Default The Democrat betrayal of the working class.

    https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-new...oral-ultimatum
    Really interesting article that shows how global oriented liberals have stabbed in the back the US working class on economic and social issues and what does it means for the medium term politics of the US:


    Deciding who does and does not get to become an American has never been simply a matter of law. In the U.S., immigration has long been a social gospel as well a policy question; a balance of moral and practical considerations. We’ve come a long way since the bigoted nativism of early 20th century anti-immigrant crusaders, but in our own time it’s the moral mythologies of liberal Democrats that have become increasingly detached from practical realties. The traditionally pro-immigration Democratic Party has not simply become more pro-immigration in recent years. Rather, in a fairly rapid shift over the past two decades, the party leadership and faithful have adopted a radical new framework that treats any restrictions on immigration and enforcement of current laws as immoral.

    Sensible immigration reforms and policies that long commanded the support of majorities in both parties are now decried as veiled racism. In their place, the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is pushing for an immigration vision that borders on open-borders advocacy. Three years into the Trump administration, some of the radicalization on the left is undoubtedly responding to the reports of deportations, squalid conditions in detention facilities and the increasing normalization of nativist rhetoric from the White House. But Trump is not the fundamental driver of this phenomenon, which started before he took office and fits into the larger pattern of “white saviorism” pulling the Democrats to the left.
    To be sure, not all of the blame for the current immigration impasse can be laid at the feet of the Democratic Party. Business-oriented Republicans have exploited low-skill immigration for years, while the tea party House Republicans effectively killed a reasonable overhaul compromise in 2013. But none of that is sufficient to explain the Democrats’ internal repositioning. To grasp how fast and how far the political winds have shifted, consider these statistics: The percentage of Democrats who view illegal immigration as a “somewhat” or “very serious” problem fell 30 points in just five years between 2014 and 2019 from 80% to 50%; the percentage of Democrats who think that large influxes of refugees and immigrants into the U.S. is a “critical threat” went from 62% in 2002 to 19% in 2018; the percentage of Democrats who support fining employers who hire illegal immigrants dropped from 61% in 2010 to a low of 38% in 2017; the percentage of Democrats who favor increasing the number of border patrols on the U.S.-Mexican border declined from 46% in 2010 to 26% in 2017; the percentage of Democrats who support conditioning amnesty and citizenship for illegal immigrants on learning English fell 16 points between 2006 and 2013 from 85% to 69% (this stipulation was also removed from the Democratic Party platform in 2016); and the percent of democrats who regard controlling and reducing immigration as an important policy goal fell from 51% in 2008 to 19% in 2018. (The sources for the data featured in this article can be accessed here).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Thus, sizable segments, and, in some cases, majorities, of those identifying as Democrats in 2019 are opposed to policies that limit the flow or regulate the composition of immigration—legal or otherwise. In contrast, the attitudes of non-Democrats have remained relatively stable across the same period. Some of these attitudinal swings appear to be a response to the rise of Trump, but, as is evident in some of the graphs above, many predate his arrival. They’ve also emerged in a changing (or “wokening) liberal media context that seemingly seeks to normalize illegal immigration. For instance, the graph below shows that from 1980 to 2012, The New York Times almost exclusively used the terms “illegal immigrants” and/or “illegal aliens” in articles covering illegal immigration. But as of 2014, the terms “undocumented” or “unauthorized” have taken over while the others have sunk to the bottom of the frequency distribution. Incidentally, the percentage of white liberals saying they’re “very sympathetic” toward illegal immigrants shot up from 22% in 2006 to 42% in 2014.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    It’s against this backdrop that the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates are jockeying for position and appealing to primary voters. Just a few weeks ago, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi argued that you “cannot say anybody coming across the border is breaking the law.” This came in the wake of a televised debate in which all but two Democratic candidates raised their hands when asked who among them would decriminalize illegal border crossings, while all candidates indicated their support for underwriting the health care of illegal immigrants.

    Such attitudes are obviously opposed by Republicans and conservative voters, but they also have some Democrats worried. In the aftermath of the debate The Washington Post reported on “several influential Hispanic leaders … warning that Democratic candidates are risking moving too far left in their quest to woo Hispanic voters.” One of those leaders, Domingo Garcia, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, told the Post, “I think there has to be some moderation. I disagree with the candidates’ positions about providing health care to undocumented immigrants, when you have Americans who don’t have health care.” Also quoted in the article was former Obama aide Cecilia Muņoz who worried that efforts to decriminalize border crossings would allow the president “to make a claim that [Trump] is already making, which is Democrats are for an open border,” which would in turn, “make it harder for Democrats to combat President Trump’s populist appeal.”
    The moralizing tenor of the debate can appear to be a series of all-or-nothing choices, but the Democrats’ current approach isn’t the only possible way to promote immigration to the U.S. One alternative is the Canadian-style points-based immigration system that favors immigrants with in-demand job skills and educational backgrounds. But a growing majority of Democrats don’t want that either. Instead, 54% of Democrats, up from 32% in 2013, support the status quo of prioritizing immigrants who have family members in the U.S. As House Speaker Pelosi recently put it: “Merit is a really condescending word. Are they saying family is without merit? Are they saying most that have ever come to the United States in the history of our country are without merit because they don’t have an engineering degree?”

    Moderates and pundits may fret over pushing voters toward Trump in the 2020 election but it’s clear that more radical immigration policies appeal to a significant segment of voting Democrats. This is especially so among the party’s influential, “activist” liberal wing that is most likely to donate money to or contact Democratic candidates and vote in the party’s primaries. On the other hand, my research finds that Democrats who support more restrictive immigration policies are also more likely to report engaging in self-censorship out of fear of being thought of as a “bad person.”

    One recent poll found that half of likely primary voters support decriminalizing illegal immigration. And, despite protestations that they’re “not for open borders,” a 2018 Harris-Harvard poll found that more than 1 in 3 Democrats, 36%, and just under half, 46%, of liberals say they prefer having “open” to “secure borders.” A more recent Rasmussen survey further shows that 65% of Democrats believe that opening “our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal” is better for the U.S. than tightly controlling who comes into the country (26%). All told, when you couple the above with opposition among majorities of Democrats to standard immigration-restriction policies and connect the dots, at the very least, it’s hard to make the case that the party is “anti-open borders.” In fact, 49% of the public believes—versus 36% who do not believe—that it is for open borders. And who can really blame them? If public perceptions are mistaken, Democrats have and have had ample opportunity to set the record straight.

    A recent study found that liberal immigration attitudes are more likely to be energized by stronger moral convictions. Other research shows that the moralization of political attitudes makes them more resistant to consequentialist or cost/benefit reasoning. In other words, once moral reasoning takes over a political question, practical or utilitarian arguments lose their ability to persuade. For Democrats this is becoming the case even when the practical questions relate to matters, like income inequality, that are also important to them. Between a moralized political question and a matter of practical politics, it seems, the moral side will always win. There is ample evidence, for instance, that sustained low-skill immigration harms the livelihoods of low-skilled natives, at least in the short run, and the stability of the economy and welfare state in the long run. But these sorts of arguments have little power against a moral case increasingly prevalent in elite quarters that advocates an open-borders immigration policy as a form of “reparations” for America’s historical sins.

    Here is how a recent New York Times essay put it:
    What is good immigration policy for the United States is separate from what is just and moral for the peoples whose destiny America, past and present, has affected. It might make economic sense for the United States to let in more skilled Indians and fewer unskilled Latinos, but America owes them more, and it should open its doors more to its southern neighbors.
    My own research shows that white guilt and privilege awareness, which are most pronounced among liberals, are indeed related to support for increasing immigration. The trappings of this moral psychology are further evident in the graph below, which shows that white Democrats are significantly more likely to endorse prioritizing the welfare of the poorest people in developing countries over that of the poorest Americans.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Whatever one thinks of the merits of this moral persuasion, the fact is that many Amerians, including Democrats and crucial swing voters who could decide the 2020 election, don’t share them. For such individuals, appeals to guilt and privilege will fall on deaf ears, or worse, backfire. Moral considerations should have a place in any national immigration debate. But when they begin to consume it altogether they risk prodding a cycle of backlash rather than promoting compromise and incremental reform.
    Lots of interesting elements here:
    -a sizeable chunk of core Democrat voters are NPCs; they simply believe whatever the media tells them. If NYT says illegal immigrants, then they are illegal. If NYT says undocumented, then they should just be given papers, aka legalized. This is probably identifiable with a segment of upper class college educated whitoids, non-thinking people;
    -such people are simply unable to think rationally when it comes to immigration; the discussion is entirely seen on moral grounds and any opposition is branded racist. This obviously results in impossibility to have a rational cost-benefit debate. This is evident when it comes to the employment of illegal immigrants for instance but also merit based immigration. Merit is also hint of racism according to them. Even when there's abundant evidence that immigration hurts the working class, the liberal elite immediately reframes the discourse under moral matters and demands that their sins are repaid by the working class via endless immigration;
    -Dem voters who think the above is crazy engage in cowardly self-censorship because they are terrified of their extreme counterpart branding them as racist;
    -Dem voters also engage in heavy Orwellian double-think: they claim not to be for open borders, but they prefer open to secure borders (!);
    -not even Hispanics actually believe in any of the above BS;
    -finally, the cherry on top, Democrats distinctively prefer helping the poor from other countries than helping the American poor, which should be hardly surprising given the above.

    All in all, this is great for Trump who could and should correctly mount a narrative of ''Patriots'' against ''Traitors''. Pretty important development for American politics as well, as Democrats become officially the party of snob elitist imbecilles, out of touch with reality and interested only in appearing morally virtuous, while Republicans have a chance to become the party of the working class.

    Feel free to make your own hypothesis on how this is going to play out.

  2. #2
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Hey Basil you should read a bit closer. First White and Politics is not not a table breakout the survey provides, you can sort the raw data but than again that is a third party doing the stats...

    -finally, the cherry on top, Democrats distinctively prefer helping the poor from other countries than helping the American poor, which should be hardly surprising given the above.
    You are not posting data on democrats.

    For the poll question 14, Nov 2017...

    Note there is no Yes question - But Strong, Yes Not very Strongly Yes, Identical for No, and Don't know/No Answer. So I assume the person who made the chart lumped the two positive or negative questions

    Anyway Dem
    SY 18%
    NVSY 8%
    Total Y 26%
    DK/R 9%

    Rep
    SY 5%
    NVSY 3%
    Total Y 8%
    DK/R 5%

    Ind
    SY 12%
    NVSY 2%
    Total Y 14%
    DK/R 4%


    Not so striking a difference. Realistically I would not answer I think the question is badly constructed offering binary choice that is somewhat silly.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    I also find it amusing the topic title itself tries to portray the Republicans as the party of the American Working Class.

    Really? The very same Republican Party that has systematically stripped the American worker of his employment rights and killed of the Unions. If they're friends of the working class, then damn, I'd hate to see its enemies.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    A liberal using a strawman, never seen that one before. I didn't say it and I actually concluded that Republicans should try to become the party of the American working class and mount a narrative against coastal elites.

    It's also doable in a full on revolution mode, because unlike stupid Marxist analysis expecting a global revolution, there's zero solidarity between the working classes of different countries. There is, however, within country and it has happened before. Thus a revolution against liberals in America is possible.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    A liberal using a strawman, never seen that one before. I didn't say it and I actually concluded that Republicans should try to become the party of the American working class and mount a narrative against coastal elites.

    It's also doable in a full on revolution mode, because unlike stupid Marxist analysis expecting a global revolution, there's zero solidarity between the working classes of different countries. There is, however, within country and it has happened before. Thus a revolution against liberals in America is possible.
    Basil being unnecessarily hostile and childishly generalising everyone into "them and us" groups, never seen that one before.

    I'm aware of what you concluded (I read your post), the trouble is that for the Republican Party to become the party of the working class, they'd actually have to care about other people. They'd also have to do all kinds of crazy un-Republican things like introducing statutory paid vacation days, maternity leave, raise the minimum wage, better grievance & employment tribunal proceedings and cease their war against the union movement.

    None of these things are going to happen anytime soon. It always amazes me why the American working class could even consider voting for a party that is so against their own collective interests. It's like Turkeys voting for Xmas.
    Last edited by TheLeft; July 26, 2019 at 09:53 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    The recent National Conservative conference is well on its way for that purpose. It won't be typical leftist stuff, but the high focus on community and family will help. The fact that Neoconservatives are going back to the Democratic party, and those formed the core of the Republican intellectual class for the past decades, will also help.

    Republicans have also been floating the name of Tucker Calrson for the post-Trump era and quite frankly, he fits perfectly. If there's someone who understands issues today and the Obama-Trump voters, better than Trump himself, that's Tucker. He's also well-versed in both economic and culture wars issues.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    The recent National Conservative conference is well on its way for that purpose. It won't be typical leftist stuff, but the high focus on community and family will help. The fact that Neoconservatives are going back to the Democratic party, and those formed the core of the Republican intellectual class for the past decades, will also help.

    Republicans have also been floating the name of Tucker Calrson for the post-Trump era and quite frankly, he fits perfectly. If there's someone who understands issues today and the Obama-Trump voters, better than Trump himself, that's Tucker. He's also well-versed in both economic and culture wars issues.
    What does that entail exactly? What do you mean by 'typical leftist stuff' when it comes to employment and workers rights?

    Surely without returning the employment rights enjoyed by every other developed nation (paid vacation, maternity etc) a focus on family values is nothing but empty rhetoric. After all, does it not benefit a family more if people are actually paid fairly, have good working conditions and are happy in their work rather than more Christian right bible bashing?

    As for Tucker Carlson, I don't really know the man's work (I live in London so I neither receive or watch Fox News) so I'll reserve judgement.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    What does that entail exactly? What do you mean by 'typical leftist stuff' when it comes to employment and workers rights?

    Surely without returning the employment rights enjoyed by every other developed nation (paid vacation, maternity etc) a focus on family values is nothing but empty rhetoric. After all, does it not benefit a family more if people are actually paid fairly, have good working conditions and are happy in their work rather than more Christian right bible bashing?

    As for Tucker Carlson, I don't really know the man's work (I live in London so I neither receive or watch Fox News) so I'll reserve judgement.
    I don't watch Fox either, but clips from Tucker pop up all the time on my feed.


    By chance, I also read this today:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ations/594808/

    I find it perfect: Tucker wants to protect American jobs and families vs those who want even more immigration for ''the reindustralization and techifying of America''.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; July 26, 2019 at 11:29 AM.

  9. #9
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Back the chart. Again the question is poorly constructed. What if you are democrat that supports foreign aid to say help stabilize Central America to ameliorate economic refugees and the conditions that create asylum seekers . That technically would be giving money to the poor in other countries. But does mean you want eliminate food stamps or the Earned income tax credit or subsidized school lunches? Doubtful so how to answer. It seems like it might push you say NVS Yes or NO since there really is no good answer for your actual position.
    Last edited by conon394; July 26, 2019 at 08:34 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    How many LatAm countries are legit warzones?

  11. #11
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    How many LatAm countries are legit warzones?
    Venezuela, Hondarus, El Salvador. The latter two countries are where a lot of the refugees are coming from.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    I don't think the CIA would be happy with helping Venezuela when they are trying to starve them. The other two can be helped at a relatively tiny cost considering their dimension. You can still help them after you have helped your average working class America, which should be still the priority.

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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    I don't think the CIA would be happy with helping Venezuela when they are trying to starve them. The other two can be helped at a relatively tiny cost considering their dimension. You can still help them after you have helped your average working class America, which should be still the priority.
    Maduro does a great job of starving his coutry on his own. America is more than ecnomically powerful to do both. Less refugees benefits the American worker anyways.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Great, now if only your party could agree with that.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Great, now if only your party could agree with that.
    Pretty sure they do. No one expects to take in refugees forever. Trump canceled the aid sent to El Salvador over it recognizing PRC over Taiwan.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Nah. The activist base chants ''No borders, no wall, no USA at all''.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Nah. The activist base chants ''No borders, no wall, no USA at all''.
    Name one Democratic candidate that calls for no borders. Those direct words.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    I refer you to the part of the article where Dems resent being called out for supporting open borders but de-facto support policies that result in that. Unsurprisingly your position.

  19. #19
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    Open borders means no borders now? You going to prove that claim or not? Abd define what open borders means to you and we-ll see if it matches the positions of the various candidates.
    Last edited by Vanoi; July 26, 2019 at 02:27 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Democrat treachery of the working class.

    There isn't really a definition of open borders. ''Experts'' who argue for it would say ''anyone who wants to come in the country is immediately given legal papers to stay, for any reason'', which article at hand is the position of 65% of Democrat voters.
    If we go with that definition, then no borders simply mean that there are no controls to begin, because the border is abolished, which means that the state is abolished because borders are the geographical limit of legal power. Indeed the no borders are anarchists. Even then however, it can be argued that open borders can easily imply that border checks are also abolished, thus the concepts can overlap.

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