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Thread: What more would you want to add to EBII?

  1. #41
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guils View Post
    I would aqueducts for Rome, it would give population and public order boosts, as well as decrease risks of plague.

    Regarding nicknames, I'd like more nicknames for spies. Currently they are all named "the Deceiving". We could have "the Shadow", "the Death", etc.
    Roman commanders conquering a faction, or a large province, could receive the name of these, like Africanus, Asiaticus, Macedonicus, Numantinus, etc.
    I don't really know when was the time that the Romans started building aqueducts all over the place x) But if the construction of such structures are historical plausible, than yes, it would be great to have them in EBII

    Regarding spies nicknames, good idea!

    And the names for the Roman commanders already exist.

  2. #42
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    And the names for the Roman commanders already exist.
    Yeah, but they don't work correctly. As displayed in the game, the character's gens is replaced entirely with a new cognomen right after the nomen.

    That's now how it worked.

    For instance, it was "Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus", not "Publius Africanus". That's stupid, and yet that's what EBII does.

  3. #43

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Yeah, but they don't work correctly. As displayed in the game, the character's gens is replaced entirely with a new cognomen right after the nomen.

    That's now how it worked.

    For instance, it was "Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus", not "Publius Africanus". That's stupid, and yet that's what EBII does.
    If you can find a simple way to make it work, given the way the game is coded, please shoot me a message.

  4. #44

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Hey, pssst! Someone may have made a suggestion in the suggestions thread!
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  5. #45
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephiston View Post
    If you can find a simple way to make it work, given the way the game is coded, please shoot me a message.
    How about changing the ridiculous and quite frankly obnoxious and inexplicable invisible naming system we have now with proper surnames? Every Roman character is absurdly named "Romanvs" as their last name, so it's "Publivs Romanuvs" and "PvblivsA Romanvs" and "PvblivsB Romanvs" and "PvblivsC Romanvs" and "PvblivsD Romanvs" for every guy named Publius on the campaign map, regardless of his gens trait or how his name is displayed to the player. How about making a simple surname system based on the damn gens trait????!!!! So that it's "Publivs Ivlivs" and "Publivs Valerivs" and "Pvblivs Lvcilivs" and "Pvblivs Mvmmivs", etc.

    That seems easy enough to me, and yet nobody seems interested in fixing this. We just march forward with every new release of EBII without ever addressing this. We just continue to have the silly and completely incorrect cognomen titles replacing the entire gens and showing up right after the nomen as explained above. It's madness. It wouldn't even take that long for someone to fix this either, just punching in some new surnames like most other factions, all the Greeks included.

  6. #46

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Hey, pssst! Someone may have made a suggestion in the suggestions thread!
    I'm sorry, I barely have time to work on EB so I really can't scan the thread: I took a quick look at the last page but didn't find anything, could you please point me to a specific post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    How about changing the ridiculous and quite frankly obnoxious and inexplicable invisible naming system we have now with proper surnames? Every Roman character is absurdly named "Romanvs" as their last name, so it's "Publivs Romanuvs" and "PvblivsA Romanvs" and "PvblivsB Romanvs" and "PvblivsC Romanvs" and "PvblivsD Romanvs" for every guy named Publius on the campaign map, regardless of his gens trait or how his name is displayed to the player. How about making a simple surname system based on the damn gens trait????!!!! So that it's "Publivs Ivlivs" and "Publivs Valerivs" and "Pvblivs Lvcilivs" and "Pvblivs Mvmmivs", etc.

    That seems easy enough to me, and yet nobody seems interested in fixing this. We just march forward with every new release of EBII without ever addressing this. We just continue to have the silly and completely incorrect cognomen titles replacing the entire gens and showing up right after the nomen as explained above. It's madness. It wouldn't even take that long for someone to fix this either, just punching in some new surnames like most other factions, all the Greeks included.
    Do you like the Gentes system for Romans? Because that's how you lose the gens for every character.

    The problem is that gentes are hereditary names, not only cognomina. IIRC there is no way you can access the name of a character from the EDCT. To be honest, I would rather focus on adding more traits to the game and improve the general performance than fix some unwanted consequence that comes up only for a subset of characters of a single faction.

  7. #47

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephiston View Post
    I'm sorry, I barely have time to work on EB so I really can't scan the thread: I took a quick look at the last page but didn't find anything, could you please point me to a specific post?
    You are terrible.

    Still, here you go.

    "Suggestion: give more elite units the scare infantry/cavalry traits.

    There are a precious few units that possess such traits.

    At the moment, elite troops have low numbers of soldiers per company and low replenishment rates. There is nothing wrong with that in terms of accuracy, but it really puts a dent in their effectiveness. I mostly recruit them for show. Adding scare traits would go a long way into making elite units truly elite.

    It makes sense. Would you, a Persian levy, charge into fresh Agema phalanx? Think about it."
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  8. #48
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    You are terrible.

    Still, here you go.

    "Suggestion: give more elite units the scare infantry/cavalry traits.

    There are a precious few units that possess such traits.

    At the moment, elite troops have low numbers of soldiers per company and low replenishment rates. There is nothing wrong with that in terms of accuracy, but it really puts a dent in their effectiveness. I mostly recruit them for show. Adding scare traits would go a long way into making elite units truly elite.

    It makes sense. Would you, a Persian levy, charge into fresh Agema phalanx? Think about it."
    With the morale thresholds used in EBII, that would be a terrible idea.

    The relative paucity of "scare" attributes in the EDU is not a coincidence, it's pretty overpowered, and was reduced some time ago. Now only elephants, heavy chariots and Gaisatoi scare infantry, and only elephants phalanxes and camels scare cavalry. Instead, many elites inspire nearby friends, rather than scare enemies.

  9. #49

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    You are terrible.

    Still, here you go.

    "Suggestion: give more elite units the scare infantry/cavalry traits.

    There are a precious few units that possess such traits.

    At the moment, elite troops have low numbers of soldiers per company and low replenishment rates. There is nothing wrong with that in terms of accuracy, but it really puts a dent in their effectiveness. I mostly recruit them for show. Adding scare traits would go a long way into making elite units truly elite.

    It makes sense. Would you, a Persian levy, charge into fresh Agema phalanx? Think about it."
    Oh, I thought you were referring to something trait - related, as that's my field. Unfortunately I possess little knowledge of the EDU.

  10. #50

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    With the morale thresholds used in EBII, that would be a terrible idea.

    The relative paucity of "scare" attributes in the EDU is not a coincidence, it's pretty overpowered, and was reduced some time ago. Now only elephants, heavy chariots and Gaisatoi scare infantry, and only elephants phalanxes and camels scare cavalry. Instead, many elites inspire nearby friends, rather than scare enemies.
    I'm playing with the full financial might of developed Carthage, and I don't have many elite units at my disposal. I don't think it would make much of a difference for the human player, but it might give the AI more of a fighting chance.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  11. #51

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    There is a mistake in the description of the gens Cornelia, about the "30% of the consuls of the Republic belonged to the gens". It is obviously wrong, just look at the list of consuls. Real figure is closer to 10%.

    The patrician requirement for Pontifex Maximus should be removed, as plebeians could be pontiffs since the Lex Ogulnia of 300 BC.
    Besides, currently pontiffs are ancillaries, whilst they should be a character trait. Most prominent politicians had religious appointment, so they should appear as traits. There were four of them:
    -pontiffs, open to plebeians and patricians without age requirement, but a gens could not have more than one member in the college. The pontifex maximus should be a pontiff before.
    -decimviri sacris faciundis, read the Sibylline books.
    -augurs.
    In addition, it was impossible to be a member of two colleges; the only man known to have been augur and pontiff was Fabius Maximus, the Cunctator. Since he is in the game, he should start with the augur trait (he became such at 16), and it would be possible for him to be pontiff later.
    -The last category of priests were the flamines. The plebeian flamines are almost unknown, but the three patrician flamines held considerable power, especially the flamines of Jupiter and Mars (third one was Quirinus). Problem is the flamines could not leave Rome, although it did not harm their career: Lucius Valerius Flaccus was flamen Martialis, and also consul, censor and princeps senatus. The Cornelii monopolised the flamen dialis. It would be awkward to forbid them to leave Rome in the game though, so perhaps it's best to leave these ones.

  12. #52

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Overall, you guys are doing a fantastic job, and honestly I can't think of much that hasn't either been mentioned already in already in this thread, has already been hinted is coming up in new releases (satrapies) or ruled out entirely (map changes, forts). However, there's a few minor things that I think could be changed/added.

    1) The KH "archon" traits would work better as ancillaries, like the Roman governor ancillary. Also the Spartan "ephor" archon trait should really be replaced with ones for the two kings.

    2) Speaking of satrapies, would they be for all Greek factions, or just the Seulucids/Ptolomies/Makedonians? If the KH/Epirus/KB expand East they should really have them as well.

    3) Are there more armour upgrades planned? I can think of plenty of likely candidates for them, such as Galatianised infantry (who after all were meant to be equipped similar enough to Roman legionaries that ancient writers mistook them for copies), Kretan peltasts, and maybe the machairaphoroi? As this Ptolemaic stele shows, they did wear chainmail. Also I think there should be more mail-clad troops in the thorakitai unit.



    4) I think the chances of this happening are pretty much zero, as it takes up a unit slot, but would it be possible for the KH to have a "late" bodyguard unit, equipped like thorakitai? In the late-game, when hoplite units are thin on the ground, their generals/elites look more than a little antiquated compared to the theuros units that make up most of their armies.

    5) I've seen this being discussed elsewhere, so I doubt this is actually going to happen either, but I think the Spartan hoplites should be buffed (slightly, not being a 300-fanboy here), just to actually make it worthwhile recruiting them. As it stands, they're way too expensive in cost, and rare in terms of recruitment, in regards to their stats. They're basically an over-expensive novelty unit. Again, I know this probably isn't going to happen. Just wanted to throw it out there.

    6) Speaking of the Spartans, I think generals of that ethnicity (or any other eligible KH ethnicities for that matter) should be eligible for mercenary recruitment, like barbarian FM's. Historically they were famous mercenaries during this period, and it would add a more than a little flavour to the faction.

    7) Also would be cool if there was a little message that popped up whenever a faction leader died.

    8) And an addition that wouldn't be so minor...

    A common problem with all Total War games is that the late-game is usually easy, since you've snowballed so much that no one faction is a challenge. I'm thinking maybe a script could be added that once you reach a certain number of settlements, the remaining factions all turn on you to try and take you down? There was a similar system in Shogun 2 if I remember correctly, and it could pose an interesting late-game challenge.

    Failing that, is there anything else that could be added to make the late-game more difficult? Like a rebel uprising or public-order maluses that could be scripted? Its a pity something like the Roman Civil War from Rome 1 is out of the question (AFAIK anyway). Or even something like the Mongol invasion from Med II? Maybe make the Yeuzhi a full-blown faction that could pose a serious threat (I don't know if both of the remaining faction slots have been decided upon)?

    Obviously any late-game scenario like that could veer dangerously into alt-history, but I think from a game-play perspective it would be worth it.

  13. #53
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    1) Traits aren't my thing, you'd have to ask mephiston or one of the others.
    2) I think they're just a Diadochi (ie the main three) thing. It wouldn't make sense for KH, who aren't organised as an imperial power.
    3) No armour upgrades planned, I'm afraid. At most for the Macharophoroi, the Romans might merit a late upgrade with mail, but that's about it.
    4) You can't use more than one unit for a bodyguard unit, the only way they can get "late" ones is via armour upgrade. As far as I'm aware, there are no plans for a late KH bodyguard, though it's worth mentioning that small hoplite-equipped elites persisted throughout our period.
    5) There aren't any plans to change the stats of the Hoplitai Homioi (that's their new name).
    6) This is a good idea, I'll raise it with the team.
    7) I'm not entirely sure how feasible that would be mechanically.
    8) We've got some measures in place in the patch which will hopefully slow the arrival at the late-game period you describe.

  14. #54

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aodh Mór Ó Néill View Post
    8) And an addition that wouldn't be so minor...

    A common problem with all Total War games is that the late-game is usually easy, since you've snowballed so much that no one faction is a challenge. I'm thinking maybe a script could be added that once you reach a certain number of settlements, the remaining factions all turn on you to try and take you down? There was a similar system in Shogun 2 if I remember correctly, and it could pose an interesting late-game challenge.

    Failing that, is there anything else that could be added to make the late-game more difficult? Like a rebel uprising or public-order maluses that could be scripted? Its a pity something like the Roman Civil War from Rome 1 is out of the question (AFAIK anyway). Or even something like the Mongol invasion from Med II? Maybe make the Yeuzhi a full-blown faction that could pose a serious threat (I don't know if both of the remaining faction slots have been decided upon)?

    Obviously any late-game scenario like that could veer dangerously into alt-history, but I think from a game-play perspective it would be worth it.
    yes. please. there should really be an end-game crisis, that would be cool as hell. i always love those, one last massive challenge before you finally reach the top. something that would actually pose a threat to you and couldn't just be steamrolled over like everything else.

    personally, it'd be cool to see it in the form of a massive civil war. i honestly think it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to say that wouldn't be historically inaccurate. not like the one from r:tw ofc, i mean an actual civil war, or some sort of inner turmoil once certain variables are met. that sorta stuff has happened all throughout history, it's just the lifecycle of a state once it reaches a certain point - and ESPECIALLY if it grows too large in size.

    that's something i've always really kinda disliked about all the empire-building games like total war, eu4, etc.; they get the rise of an empire part right, but not the decline of an empire. i wanna see empires rise and fall, not just keep growing until they swallow the entire world. that just feels boring. i'm not saying that these sorta games should FORCE what you've built to collapse or anything like that, it should be completely avoidable if you manage your empire right. and not only should it be avoidable, but it should also be reversible (i.e. reclaim your nation's glory or whatever), and most importantly, fun.

    however!! i completely understand if it wouldn't really fit in with the direction the devs wanna go with it, or if it would be just too much work. hell, it honestly might not even work with what they currently have. but god dammit, i wanna see empires collapsing, whether that be in eu4 or total war )):<

  15. #55

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    1) Traits aren't my thing, you'd have to ask mephiston or one of the others.
    2) I think they're just a Diadochi (ie the main three) thing. It wouldn't make sense for KH, who aren't organised as an imperial power.
    3) No armour upgrades planned, I'm afraid. At most for the Macharophoroi, the Romans might merit a late upgrade with mail, but that's about it.
    4) You can't use more than one unit for a bodyguard unit, the only way they can get "late" ones is via armour upgrade. As far as I'm aware, there are no plans for a late KH bodyguard, though it's worth mentioning that small hoplite-equipped elites persisted throughout our period.
    5) There aren't any plans to change the stats of the Hoplitai Homioi (that's their new name).
    6) This is a good idea, I'll raise it with the team.
    7) I'm not entirely sure how feasible that would be mechanically.
    8) We've got some measures in place in the patch which will hopefully slow the arrival at the late-game period you describe.
    Thank you for the reply Quintus.

    For the dead faction leader pop-up, I saw the mechanic in Stainless Steel, which is where I got the idea. I'm not a modder though, so I have no idea how they scripted it.

  16. #56
    Marvzilla's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Seeing as additional provinces are out of question, maybe some more province related buildings to represent provinces that did not make it into the game, for example something for Boetia in Attica, or some of the provinces and cities in the Peleponnese in Sparta or Corinth. The thing about the mercenary trait system for Spartans is a nice idea, maybe it could be made for all KH characters as it seems that people from different Poleis worked for the successors etc. Also I may already have asked but is there a limit for ethnicities in a given faction ? If not maybe some more of those hehe.

  17. #57
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    Seeing as additional provinces are out of question, maybe some more province related buildings to represent provinces that did not make it into the game, for example something for Boetia in Attica, or some of the provinces and cities in the Peleponnese in Sparta or Corinth. The thing about the mercenary trait system for Spartans is a nice idea, maybe it could be made for all KH characters as it seems that people from different Poleis worked for the successors etc. Also I may already have asked but is there a limit for ethnicities in a given faction ? If not maybe some more of those hehe.
    The province related buildings may seem a great idea at first but it would restrict even more the number of buildings a settlement can have before crashing. I'm not sure, but with the current amount of buildings in EBII + the already existing permanent buildings like the province description, the greek stasis, etc, I think we are left with around 4 building that can still appear in the settlement and for those I already have in mind what they could be for x) Don't know about the team opinion...

    There is a limit for ethnicities due to the amount of conditions we can put on a trigger to avoid a character having two ethnicities but there are ways we could surpass it of course. One could be giving a General main ethnicity and then a secondary ethnicity based on the amount of different ethnicities the first had but it may be too complex.

    By the way, the dead faction leader pop-up may be interesting until you find yourself getting that type of pop-ups every turn, especially when the factions are almost destroyed and their FLs die in battle every turn. And also, this would be a pop-up for all the factions and while it would make sense for a Seleucid General to know that the Makedonian FL is dead, a Aedui player couldn't care less about it.

  18. #58
    Marvzilla's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Hm okay thats too bad about the hardcoded building limit, the secondary ethnicity idea is intriguing. For example, an Athenian may be from different parts of Attica, the different Demes etc.

  19. #59

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Hm, what I miss about EB is that the Roman civil wars are not represented - and who it would be only about a Spawnfraktion

  20. #60
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    Hm okay thats too bad about the hardcoded building limit, the secondary ethnicity idea is intriguing. For example, an Athenian may be from different parts of Attica, the different Demes etc.
    Exactly. We can even identify some of the most important cities and towns and say that he comes from there.

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