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Thread: What more would you want to add to EBII?

  1. #21

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    the linthorax beares can still have linthorax but mingle them with mail for more historical accuracy and diversity. TU! and just overall more factional units extra more than regionals for recruitment.

  2. #22

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Sorry, regarding the aphistamenoi, I meant I don't understand what triggers them, not what they are supposed to represent, but I meant that I don't know what some rebels around Karmania and Prophthasia are supposed to represent.

  3. #23
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by leotje678 View Post
    Hello, i'd like to see a much more expanded romani, mailed archers, praetorian cavalry,... we also need Hellenic horse archers(mailed) for Anatolia or makedon.
    make mailed hoplite/phalanx like koinon bg and hysterioi pezhateroi from EBI wearing mail. just overall more mail for the Hellenic fations! like we have the thorakitai wearing mail but i'd like to see hoplon beares in mail also so like classical hoplite wearing mail would be awesome as an extra unit, Cretan archers wearing mail. just add mail to the linthorax wearers for more diversity.
    Sorry, but none of those are planned.

    Quote Originally Posted by antiochos_hierax View Post
    Sorry, regarding the aphistamenoi, I meant I don't understand what triggers them, not what they are supposed to represent, but I meant that I don't know what some rebels around Karmania and Prophthasia are supposed to represent.
    They're the hard-coded "bandit" spawns, a vanilla feature. They're being disabled in the patch and are replaced with a global "revolts" script which is less random. Instead of the odd 3-unit stack of Akontistai, followed later by a jumbled half-stack of mixed composition led by a Captain, they're now small armies (mostly 5 units, but occasionally 8) with proper commanders.

  4. #24
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by BailianSteel View Post
    A "why not both" approach would be fine with me. The Boioi already have something similar to the first option with their Colony Founder traits.
    I will work on it when I have time, either for my submods or to later present it to the team.

    Roma_Victrix
    more importantly they allow you to maintain your royal dynasty with familial intermarriage
    Agree. It would be nice to have princesses in the game, for me that's not for discussion because it's obvious that it should be added

    Personally I'd like to see one more type of Jewish unit in the game aside from the Ioudaioi Taxeis, or at the very least an armor upgrade that gives them thureos shields or something, instead of the outdated look they have belonging to the early 3rd century BC even when going into the latter half of the 1st century BC as I reach 1000 turns in the game.
    It would be interesting indeed. Another Jewish unit and we could create a revolt of the Jewish event. A thureos shield would make sense and I take the opportunity to also say that the Carthaginian militia infantry should also deserve an uppgrade for the time of the 3rd punic war and get thureos shields. I've read about the Jewish revolts and they seem to have used infantry, infantry, infantry, and not really much of cavalry. But as Quintus said, there isn't one that is appropriate.

    azayrahmad


    • More mood traits, hopefully ones that can be triggered by personal life or random events. Family death should trigger a Mourning trait, decreasing Command for a turn or more depending on personality. Death of Faction Leader should gives Mourning trait to all family member, and should make a faction more likely to accept ceasefire (is it possible?). Poor/good harvest should affect mood for good farmer characters too, I think.
    • More ancillary objects. I think ancillary mechanism is more suited to objects rather than persons, so more of them would be nice. I'm thinking objects like heirloom weapon/helmet, good luck charms, amber ring when capturing amber route settlements, etc. Especially for agents I think would be nice if my spies could get anything other than Courtesan and Dancer.
    The mood traits are interesting but I really have doubts that we can create a trigger that checks if a FM has died.
    The ancillary objects seems interesting, would like to see this more developed, if you have more ideas for what objects post here


    antiochos_hierax


    Regarding regions, I would like to see some more regions in Coele Syria (especially Hierosolyma and Sidon or Gaza would be great) but I was told that you’re not planning on making changes to the map, which is understandable.
    Who wouldn't?
    Maybe after defeating a rebel force the player could get a monetary payment (to represent captives sold to slavery) or recruited units in your capital or as garrisons to nearby cities (to represent recruiting captives into armies).
    Doesn't the player already have chances of getting the camp trait which gives some money after winning a battle?

    Also another one but not sure about this one. When/ If the Romans take control of Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella and Antigonids do not control Pella, Corinth, Athens, there could be a script for the Seleucid player called “Aitolian Delegation” asking the player to protect the rights of the Greeks/ Aitolians and go to war with Rome. If the player accepts he’s instantly transferred the region of Demetrias if owned by Rome, Koinon Hellenon or Antigonids, if the region is controlled by the Antigonids or Koinon Hellenon the Seleucid player also goes to war with them.
    I had this idea that if the player plays as the Seleucids and captures Memphis, he should place the faction leader in the city and there could be a chance for him to gain a trait of “Crowned Pharaoh at Memphis”, which decreases public order of Ptolemaic holdings and gives a public order bonus to Egyptian cities captured by the faction leader. The same could be done for the Ptolemies once they capture Antiocheia on the Orontes.
    Interesting idea to create a war between the Seleucids and the Romans

    Another thing that I found annoying in my Seleucid campaign was the fact that the Ptolemies would never sign a peace treaty with me, even after I had taken all of their Asia Minor, Cyprus and Coele Syria settlements and I was about to invade Egypt with big forces while they had taken all their forces in Ptolemais Theron for some reason and left much of Egypt poorly defended.
    What would be nice is to have a scripted choice for a peace treaty (not sure if possible) after all Coele Syria and Asia Minor possessions have been taken by the player. If the player accepts the peace treaty, the faction leader can gain a “Victor of the 1st Syrian War” increasing his authority/ command.
    Not signing peace treaties is mostly due to the game mechanics which keeps the faction in a war standing behaviour even if it has lost a lot of provinces. Still, it is far better than Rome Total War war/peace mechanics. On my campaigns, I get a lot of different wars, but normally is the AI that comes asking for peace, sometimes we didn't even fight on the field (only sea battles like against the Romans and Lusitanians), other times like recently against the Numidians, it took years fighting, conquering almost all their cities (they were left with only one) for them to ask me for peace. And even so, they started sending big armies to one of my cities and declared war around 10 turns after. So it really depends but it usually takes a good amount of turns for the AI to ask for peace, although some times they declare war to ask for peace one or two turns later. You always have the forced diplomacy.

    Interesting idea for the Seleucid FM to be crowned in Memphis and the Ptolemies in Antiocheia.

  5. #25

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    @Lusitanio

    The idea for the crowning comes from Antiochus IV supposedly being crowned in Memphis as pharaoh and Ptolemy Philometor taking the Crown of Asia.
    Ancestral legitimacy and ancestral claims were very important in attacking/ taking lands for the Hellenistic factions. That’s why when the Romans questioned Antiochus on what he was doing in Thrace, he replied by saying that he was taking what was his by ancestral right, as his ancestor (Seleucus I) had defeated Lysimachus and hence inherited the latter’s kingdom and since Seleucus couldn’t do it after being treacherously murdered by Ptolemy Ceraunus, it was only right for Antiochus to defend what was his.
    I read an interesting article regarding Antiochus’ campaign in Greece, where Antiochus married a local girl from Chalcis. Many people (mostly uninformed to be honest) see the marriage as a terrible decision and a waste of time but the article claimed that Antiochus’ decision to get married was an effort to create a legitimate claim to the newly taken land, and that’s the reason why he named the girl Euboea (the name of the island taken).
    It would be interested if there could be traits such as “married to a local” or something like that.

  6. #26
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    The mood traits are interesting but I really have doubts that we can create a trigger that checks if a FM has died.
    Yes there is: BecomesFactionLeader. It triggers when an heir becomes the new faction leader, which also implies that the previous one has died.

  7. #27
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Yes there is: BecomesFactionLeader. It triggers when an heir becomes the new faction leader, which also implies that the previous one has died.
    Good one. Doesn't that condition applies only for new FL?

  8. #28

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by azayrahmad View Post

    • More mood traits, hopefully ones that can be triggered by personal life or random events. Family death should trigger a Mourning trait, decreasing Command for a turn or more depending on personality. Death of Faction Leader should gives Mourning trait to all family member, and should make a faction more likely to accept ceasefire (is it possible?). Poor/good harvest should affect mood for good farmer characters too, I think.
    • More ancillary objects. I think ancillary mechanism is more suited to objects rather than persons, so more of them would be nice. I'm thinking objects like heirloom weapon/helmet, good luck charms, amber ring when capturing amber route settlements, etc. Especially for agents I think would be nice if my spies could get anything other than Courtesan and Dancer.
    I don't think we could trace a death in the family from the EDCT; same for p
    oor/good harvest
    .
    Death of the FL can be traced, but I'm not an expert at all on the subtleties of diplomatic relationships.
    Ancillaries for agents are indeed a bit lackluster, we've recently been trying to deal with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by antiochos_hierax View Post
    O epi ton ano satrapeion (upper satrapies, the character will need to stay within close proximity to Ecbatana, Babylon) and O epi ton epitade tou Taurou pragmaton (Asia Minor, the character will need to stay in Sardis or cities in Asia Minor), which provides an authority bonus to the character who possesses it along with maybe a corruption decrease bonus while it makes the character who has it more disloyal and likely to rebel if the king has low authority (revolt of Molon, Achaios, Timarchos etc.).
    If the character rebels you could either have them become Ptolemaic AI controlled characters (if Ptolemies are still alive and at war with Seleucids) or automatically have them occupy certain regions (if epi ton ano satrapeion, regions around Ecbatana will be automatically occupied) and if the character has the epi ton epitade tou Taurou pragmaton regions around Sardis will rebel (or only Sardis).


    The Seleukid satrapies will be featured in the next release. I couldn't get to work on satrapies for other factions, mainly because there's lot of work to do in other departments and satrapies are long and bothersome, but eventually we will tackle it.

  9. #29

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    The mood traits are interesting but I really have doubts that we can create a trigger that checks if a FM has died.
    The ancillary objects seems interesting, would like to see this more developed, if you have more ideas for what objects post here
    Glad that you're interested.
    Lucky charms in the period are fascinus (winged penis amulet for Romans) and torc (neck brace of Celts). Both are believed to bring luck and offer protection. In-game effects could be Less likely to be assassinated. Torcs in particular are also status symbol, so it might increase Influence as well. In general, ancillary object is not unlike items in RPG games. So we might have something like Thick Armor (=1 hitpoints but -25% movement), eagle standard (+1 morale), Rhyton/drinking horn (+1 Command in battle, -1 Influence as governor), etc. These are transferable so they can be gifted to the most suitable FM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Yes there is: BecomesFactionLeader. It triggers when an heir becomes the new faction leader, which also implies that the previous one has died.
    That's a great news. Actually I'm not sure what works and what doesn't. As a guy who roleplays as Faction Leader, I think there should be more impact of FL life to the whole faction. His every movement should be a big deal. If he's not in faction's capital, if he's personally leading the battle, if he's dead, it should have appropriate effects to the whole country, especially if he has high Influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by antiochos_hierax View Post
    I read an interesting article regarding Antiochus’ campaign in Greece, where Antiochus married a local girl from Chalcis. Many people (mostly uninformed to be honest) see the marriage as a terrible decision and a waste of time but the article claimed that Antiochus’ decision to get married was an effort to create a legitimate claim to the newly taken land, and that’s the reason why he named the girl Euboea (the name of the island taken).
    It would be interested if there could be traits such as “married to a local” or something like that.
    There is a Mistress ancillary with +1 Fertility effect in the game. Maybe we could have Euboean Mistress with +1 Influence effect upon conquering settlement in said island?

  10. #30

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    No offense to the current EBII team, but it would be nice if there was a bit more standardization of the unit descriptions. I mean, it's okay if each culture group has their own local flavor, but please make sure that all of the descriptions give the same basic information at some point? I'm thinking in particular of the Armorican Tribesmen unit, whose description tells you absolutely nothing about what the unit is supposed to be used for: the first half is a flowery description of how rugged and manly the seamen of Armorica are, while the second half is another, equally-flowery note that, yes, they fought Caesar during his Gallic War. What the description doesn't tell you is:

    -Why is this a unit? Why do these guys get a unique unit, instead of more Uisuspurios(sp?)?
    -What's the intended tactical usage? Are they line infantry like Uisuspurios(sp?), or are they more like the Germanic Youths or Dacian Komatai?
    -What kind of finds are these guys based upon? What does Armorican archaeology tell us (if anything?). Are there spearhead deposits in modern Brittany that indicate La Tene-style Gaisoswere in use at the time? If there's scant archaeological material, mention that!

    Similar concerns apply to the Gallic regional Heavy Cavalry: the descriptions for the Volsci Headhunters and the Treveri Heavy Cavalry don't say very much about what makes these guys different from your basic Eporeda Donnoi. It gets weird, especially when Hoplites are the same from Emporion to Bactria, but these heavily-armored, Inspires Nearby Units Gallic cavalry that are marginally different from the generic version deserve their own unit slot. I'm sure you guys have a reason why these units are separate, but it would be nice to know what it is.
    Last edited by Dargaron; July 28, 2019 at 05:42 PM.

  11. #31
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by azayrahmad View Post
    Glad that you're interested.
    Lucky charms in the period are fascinus (winged penis amulet for Romans) and torc (neck brace of Celts). Both are believed to bring luck and offer protection. In-game effects could be Less likely to be assassinated. Torcs in particular are also status symbol, so it might increase Influence as well. In general, ancillary object is not unlike items in RPG games. So we might have something like Thick Armor (=1 hitpoints but -25% movement), eagle standard (+1 morale), Rhyton/drinking horn (+1 Command in battle, -1 Influence as governor), etc. These are transferable so they can be gifted to the most suitable FM.


    That's a great news. Actually I'm not sure what works and what doesn't. As a guy who roleplays as Faction Leader, I think there should be more impact of FL life to the whole faction. His every movement should be a big deal. If he's not in faction's capital, if he's personally leading the battle, if he's dead, it should have appropriate effects to the whole country, especially if he has high Influence.
    Maybe someone in the team wants to work on a winged penis amulet for the Romans. Sadly, I have suddendly lost any interest I had in ancillaries after reading that part

    If we can apply the condition for the FL becoming a Faction Leader (meaning that the previous one has died) for a trigger for all the FMs it could be worth it working on more traits related with how a FL impacts the faction generals. With traits like Mourning the Death of the Leader, Mocking the New Leader, etc.

  12. #32
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Good one. Doesn't that condition applies only for new FL?
    Well, the trigger will trigger when the heir becomes the new faction leader. It's something of an event that can be used to trigger traits for other characters if you want, like "mourning the death of the previous leader" or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by azayrahmad View Post
    That's a great news. Actually I'm not sure what works and what doesn't. As a guy who roleplays as Faction Leader, I think there should be more impact of FL life to the whole faction. His every movement should be a big deal. If he's not in faction's capital, if he's personally leading the battle, if he's dead, it should have appropriate effects to the whole country, especially if he has high Influence.
    I'm by no means an expert either. I just know that that trigger exists and can be used for various things related to the death of a faction leader. For my mod that I'm working on I have scripted a "Kalmar Union" script in which faction X gets taken over by faction Y when a specific settlement is conquered and the faction leader of faction X dies, using BecomesFactionLeader as a trigger.
    Last edited by Razor; July 29, 2019 at 05:58 PM.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephiston View Post
    The Seleukid satrapies will be featured in the next release. I couldn't get to work on satrapies for other factions, mainly because there's lot of work to do in other departments and satrapies are long and bothersome, but eventually we will tackle it.
    I need more information
    Member of the Beyond Skyrim Project

  14. #34
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    I'm thinking about creating a lighthouse building for large cities with ports but I'm not sure if they were frequent enough during ancient times apart from the Alexandria, I barely have any reference for other lighthouses.

  15. #35
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    I'm thinking about creating a lighthouse building for large cities with ports but I'm not sure if they were frequent enough during ancient times apart from the Alexandria, I barely have any reference for other lighthouses.
    Greek ones existed in places like Piraeus outside Athens, also in Syria, and for that matter Roman ones still exist intact. For instance, the famous Tower of Hercules at A Coruña, Spain, built in the 2nd century AD, and the Roman lighthouse at Dover Castle, England, albeit much smaller than the one in Spain. The Tower of Hercules is also thought to slightly imitate the famous Pharos Lightouse of Alexandria. I think it would be great if they were included in the game. Aside from towers of defensive fortifications, they were almost certainly the tallest free-standing structures the Greeks and Romans built.

  16. #36

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    I think it would be great if we had a campaign at the time of the 2nd triumvirate or the first triumvirate.

  17. #37
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avarice1987 View Post
    I think it would be great if we had a campaign at the time of the 2nd triumvirate or the first triumvirate.
    That's at least 50% of the effort required to create an entirely new mod.

    Welcome to attempt it for yourself, but the team is fully occupied with the mod we're already working on.

  18. #38
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    That's at least 50% of the effort required to create an entirely new mod.

    Welcome to attempt it for yourself, but the team is fully occupied with the mod we're already working on.
    I would love playing another Roman campaign only set in the time of Marius, Sulla, and then Caesar. However, I also love playing as Western Greek factions (currently doing an Epeiros campaign). A game that starts during the First Triumvirate in the mid-1st century BC means one where all the Western Greek factions are already conquered as provincial Roman territories. Even Pergamon had been annexed by Rome decades before Caesar was born.

    The First or even Second Triumvirate would be a fantastic mod for someone who loves Rome like me, but for other players who prefer Carthage that option wouldn't even exist. It would probably be better to have a future submod starting somewhere between 149-146 BC, the time frame that Rome quelled the Macedonian rebellion of the pretender king Andriscus and sacked both Carthage and Corinth. In that small window of time, the Achaean League, the revived Kingdom of Macedonia, and city-state of Carthage could be given a chance to survive and would make for interesting game play. It would also allow the Roman player to transition from Polybian to Marian reforms, instead of immediately being in the Marian era with those late units right off the bat. It would also give the Carthaginian and Western Greek factions (minus Epeiros) a really frightening challenge to survive in the shadow of the looming superpower of Rome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Greek ones existed in places like Piraeus outside Athens, also in Syria, and for that matter Roman ones still exist intact. For instance, the famous Tower of Hercules at A Coruña, Spain, built in the 2nd century AD, and the Roman lighthouse at Dover Castle, England, albeit much smaller than the one in Spain. The Tower of Hercules is also thought to slightly imitate the famous Pharos Lightouse of Alexandria. I think it would be great if they were included in the game. Aside from towers of defensive fortifications, they were almost certainly the tallest free-standing structures the Greeks and Romans built.
    The more I think about this, the more I'd like to see towering lighthouses for coastal cities on the battle map! They shouldn't all be as tall as the famous Pharos Lighthouse of Alexandria, which was like a skyscraper for the ancients, but the Greeks built them often enough and subsequent Romans imitated them as I've explained frequently enough to warrant their presence in our mod. It would be super cool!

  19. #39
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post

    The more I think about this, the more I'd like to see towering lighthouses for coastal cities on the battle map! They shouldn't all be as tall as the famous Pharos Lighthouse of Alexandria, which was like a skyscraper for the ancients, but the Greeks built them often enough and subsequent Romans imitated them as I've explained frequently enough to warrant their presence in our mod. It would be super cool!
    Well, I will have to research more but I really think there are good reasons to include lighthouses in EBII. Maybe include them on cities that have the last level of the port building and it could give economic bonus with some monetary costs.

    By the way, Rome:Total History mod has some magnificent building cards, would love to being able to use them for my personal build and submods, check some of them here: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...Building-Cards

  20. #40

    Default Re: What more would you want to add to EBII?

    I would aqueducts for Rome, it would give population and public order boosts, as well as decrease risks of plague.

    Regarding nicknames, I'd like more nicknames for spies. Currently they are all named "the Deceiving". We could have "the Shadow", "the Death", etc.
    Roman commanders conquering a faction, or a large province, could receive the name of these, like Africanus, Asiaticus, Macedonicus, Numantinus, etc.

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