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Thread: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

  1. #181
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    The criticism of Donald Trump's foreign policy centers around his habit of pandering to authoritarian regimes, or diplomatic missions that seek to compliment him, instead of a coherent geopolitical strategy. He is also at odds with his own promises on foreign policy that he made during his Presidential campaign.
    Somewhat of a better argument than "He had a phone call with Al-Sisi!".
    Concerning North Korea, he is pandering because he still has hope that he can achieve a diplomatic solution. Egypt, like Saudi Arabia, has been a US ally for a while now, even if those relations were ruined under Obama, and the Philippines is hardly a dictatorship. US having good relations with pro-US dictatorships so that they don't fall into someone else's sphere of influence is nothing new. He's harsher to countries that are very unlikely to align themselves with China/Russia, and pandering to those who might, with a couple exceptions.
    If you are referring to his rather isolationist campaign promises then yes, he does indeed seem to have changed from his original stances, which is great in my opinion as it was one of my main issues with him during the election.
    Your analysis of this criticism is childishly simplistic. As is your entire dismissal of Ludicus's arguments simply because you dislike the Trump's critics.
    Yeah, but baselessly implying that I'm a racist who wants to commit genocide is fine right?
    Dismissal of which arguments, specifically?


  2. #182

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Somewhat of a better argument than "He had a phone call with Al-Sisi!".
    Concerning North Korea, he is pandering because he still has hope that he can achieve a diplomatic solution. Egypt, like Saudi Arabia, has been a US ally for a while now, even if those relations were ruined under Obama, and the Philippines is hardly a dictatorship. US having good relations with pro-US dictatorships so that they don't fall into someone else's sphere of influence is nothing new. He's harsher to countries that are very unlikely to align themselves with China/Russia, and pandering to those who might, with a couple exceptions.
    If you are referring to his rather isolationist campaign promises then yes, he does indeed seem to have changed from his original stances, which is great in my opinion as it was one of my main issues with him during the election.
    Ruined is gross hyperbole. The fact that Obama followed a "liberal" agenda rather than a realist one put a strain on existing US relations, not a "ruin". If you actually believe that then you're either buying into the political theatrics of state leaders, or you're simply being dishonest.

    Neither did Trump show any propensity for a diplomatic solution. This is simply an extremely generous conjecture on your part, unless you are a mind reader. In fact, Trump's diplomacy is marked by an immense amount of vagueness and praise for authoritarianism. You can't claim credit, when half of your diplomatic missions end up achieving nothing (his meetings with Putin and Xi), are shrouded in total and utter mystery (Kim and Bin Salman), or end up with you being laughed out of anything importance (nearly every European visit ever). Trump's reputation and coverage in the media is largely self-earned. If he's actually a "genius" playing 4-d Chess, then I imagine he'd prefer it that way. If he is what he appears he is, a bumbling buffoon being carefully handled by his retainers, then I don't see what attributing any kind of success or coherency does for you. In fact, I'd be much more worried as you are an Israeli. Considering that Trump's decisions appear to be done on a whim, I'd be concerned that he might cut off Israel if someone or something simply says something "wrong".

    Yeah, but baselessly implying that I'm a racist who wants to commit genocide is fine right?
    Dismissal of which arguments, specifically?
    Baselessly would imply that there is no context, no information, and no possible intent on which Donald Trump could be accused of being racist or even genocidal. Considering all the phone I've seen about White South Africans and the word, "genocide", I would argue that it's a gross hyperbole to call Donlad Trump a genocidal maniac. Does that mean such accusations are baseless or even out of context? No, Donald Trump has taken actions and implied that he is, if not an adherent, then at the very least, sympathetic to White Nationalism. As for being racist, that's almost a foregone conclusion. Forget about everything Trump does or says that paints him in that light, he's never done anything to suggest otherwise.

  3. #183
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I hope you are not insinuating what I think that you're insinuating.
    White supremacists feel a special affection for the South African apartheid, for the "apostle" Karadzic and his fanatical vision of Serbian nationalism, one of many strains of white supremacist thinking spreading out from the Balkans to Trump's USA and Eastern Europe; Palestinians did not exist because the letter "P" does not appear in the Arabic alphabet and Gypsies in Salvini's Italy are treated like dogs...

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    So no examples to back your claim? cool.
    Don't be ridiculous. Your white nationalist friends are emboldened by the racist language of Trump, they see conservative results in Iowa as a victory for white America-with what they believe will be progress toward a border wall,an end to DACA policy, and birthright citizenship.The Daily Stormer says exactly what conservative right wing nationalists think - and are afraid saying but wish to say it loudly: "This changed history. It cleared away any of the remaining fog of confusion about what exactly we are dealing with in this country. This is a race war.Period"
    So, Trump claims he is not a racist, but that's not how white nationalists see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Trump is either undiplomatic, or too diplomatic
    That's not the question.As I said before, Trump has an open admiration for for autocrats and dictators, a long story of praising bloody dictators.Curiously,the historian Tom Holland tell us that Donald Trump can be psychologically compared to Caligula, and we can see similarities between what is happening now and then in ancient Rome.Donald Trump has 'fascinating parallels' with Caligula, says historian

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  4. #184
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Ruined is gross hyperbole. The fact that Obama followed a "liberal" agenda rather than a realist one put a strain on existing US relations, not a "ruin". If you actually believe that then you're either buying into the political theatrics of state leaders, or you're simply being dishonest.
    Alright, maybe not ruined, certainly strained. Semantics.
    Neither did Trump show any propensity for a diplomatic solution. This is simply an extremely generous conjecture on your part, unless you are a mind reader. In fact, Trump's diplomacy is marked by an immense amount of vagueness and praise for authoritarianism. You can't claim credit, when half of your diplomatic missions end up achieving nothing (his meetings with Putin and Xi), are shrouded in total and utter mystery (Kim and Bin Salman), or end up with you being laughed out of anything importance (nearly every European visit ever). Trump's reputation and coverage in the media is largely self-earned. If he's actually a "genius" playing 4-d Chess, then I imagine he'd prefer it that way. If he is what he appears he is, a bumbling buffoon being carefully handled by his retainers, then I don't see what attributing any kind of success or coherency does for you. In fact, I'd be much more worried as you are an Israeli. Considering that Trump's decisions appear to be done on a whim, I'd be concerned that he might cut off Israel if someone or something simply says something "wrong".
    I didn't claim that he achieved any success, just that there is a process.
    Trump is miles better for me as an Israeli than Obama, it's not even close.


    Baselessly would imply that there is no context, no information, and no possible intent on which Donald Trump could be accused of being racist or even genocidal. Considering all the phone I've seen about White South Africans and the word, "genocide", I would argue that it's a gross hyperbole to call Donlad Trump a genocidal maniac. Does that mean such accusations are baseless or even out of context? No, Donald Trump has taken actions and implied that he is, if not an adherent, then at the very least, sympathetic to White Nationalism. As for being racist, that's almost a foregone conclusion. Forget about everything Trump does or says that paints him in that light, he's never done anything to suggest otherwise.
    He wasn't saying that about Trump. That part of his post was addressed to "all American and non-American white supremacists/ racists:"
    The implication is that said individuals are here to read this, and I don't think I need to elaborate whom his referral to the palestinians was aimed at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    White supremacists feel a special affection for the South African apartheid, for the "apostle" Karadzic and his fanatical vision of Serbian nationalism, one of many strains of white supremacist thinking spreading out from the Balkans to Trump's USA and Eastern Europe; Palestinians did not exist because the letter "P" does not appear in the Arabic alphabet and Gypsies in Salvini's Italy are treated like dogs...
    For one, Bosniaks are white, that's Islamophobia if anything not white nationalism. White Nationalists also hate Jews, and as such Israel, so again you're thinking Islamophobes. But who is your target audience here? Why did you say this in a reply to me? Are you calling me a white nationalist? Do you think I'm in favour of genociding the palestinians?

    Don't be ridiculous. Your white nationalist friends are emboldened by the racist language of Trump, they see conservative results in Iowa as a victory for white America-with what they believe will be progress toward a border wall,an end to DACA policy, and birthright citizenship.The Daily Stormer says exactly what conservative right wing nationalists think - and are afraid saying but wish to say it loudly: "This changed history. It cleared away any of the remaining fog of confusion about what exactly we are dealing with in this country. This is a race war.Period"
    So, Trump claims he is not a racist, but that's not how white nationalists see it.
    I have no white-nationalist friends.
    A border wall, just like ending DACA, is a victory for America as a whole, not "white America". Both of those are meant to counter illegal practices. Ending birthright citizenship affects immigrants from white countries too you know.
    White nationalists prefer Trump over Clinton/Whoever the Dems put up in 2020, sure, just like Communists prefer Clinton and whoever wins the primaries. Does that mean that the Democratic candidates are all Communist? Obviously not, it's very simple: People on the far-right will prefer someone on the right over someone on the left, just as people on the far-left will prefer someone on the left to someone on the right.

    That's not the question.As I said before, Trump has an open admiration for for autocrats and dictators, a long story of praising bloody dictators.Curiously,the historian Tom Holland tell us that Donald Trump can be psychologically compared to Caligula, and we can see similarities between what is happening now and then in ancient Rome.Donald Trump has 'fascinating parallels' with Caligula, says historian
    To sum up all parallels listed in the article:
    "“What he did was to trample the dignity of the senatorial elite into the dirt and what he discovered in doing that was that the mass of the Roman people really enjoyed it.”Holland said there were parallels with what Trump has done to the Republican establishment."
    "As well as trampling down the elite, Caligula was – like Trump – a conscious populist and sponsored chariot races and made a huge six-horse chariot for himself, which he would drive around Rome showing off.

    “He did all the things that the people thought an emperor should do … they loved him for it.”
    Treating the senate like dirt meant he was able to crush any conspiracy with ease."
    So a whole load of nothing, really. Clickbait. I like how the part that says "like Trump" then goes to list something Trump has never done.


  5. #185
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Wouldn't have been an issue because Trump wouldn't have said it to them if they were of European descent. Whats lazy is you not addressing anything i said and simply going on with the "but if they were white this wouldn't be an issue" excuse
    Oh I didn’t know you could read Trump’s mind and tell what he would have said if they were white. You are simply assuming he MUST be racist because it fits your narrative and nothing else. As I said, quite lazy. Still, I fail to see how it’s racist to begin with.
    Last edited by Tiberios; July 30, 2019 at 05:27 PM.

  6. #186

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Alright, maybe not ruined, certainly strained. Semantics.
    Word choice matters, especially when you're being so generous with Trump.

    I didn't claim that he achieved any success, just that there is a process.
    Trump is miles better for me as an Israeli than Obama, it's not even close.
    I don't recall saying you did, but if I did, fair enough. Otherwise sure, Trump is miles better for Israel.

    He wasn't saying that about Trump. That part of his post was addressed to "all American and non-American white supremacists/ racists:"
    The implication is that said individuals are here to read this, and I don't think I need to elaborate whom his referral to the palestinians was aimed at.
    Haha, he didn't call you a racist. At best, he called your government racist. It doesn't take a racist to start a genocide anyway, nor is Israel's current or past treatment of Palestinians humane. Even before the foundation of Israel. But I get it, Israel won, so the weak must suffer what they must. But yeah, I don't think you're a racist, not that there is a shortage of racists or racism in Israel. And I'm talking about both Palestinians and Jews.

  7. #187
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Word choice matters, especially when you're being so generous with Trump.
    Perhaps, however keep in mind that I'm a non-native speaker, and the difference between 2 words that mean similar things might be lost on me at times.


    I don't recall saying you did, but if I did, fair enough. Otherwise sure, Trump is miles better for Israel.
    "You can't claim credit", "then I don't see what attributing any kind of success or coherency does for you."


    Haha, he didn't call you a racist. At best, he called your government racist. It doesn't take a racist to start a genocide anyway, nor is Israel's current or past treatment of Palestinians humane. Even before the foundation of Israel. But I get it, Israel won, so the weak must suffer what they must. But yeah, I don't think you're a racist, not that there is a shortage of racists or racism in Israel. And I'm talking about both Palestinians and Jews.
    Then frankly I don't see why he felt the need to bring it up if it wasn't aimed at anyone at all. He also didn't address any government, so don't see how this is a more likely conclusion than the one I arrived at
    Last edited by nhytgbvfeco2; July 31, 2019 at 04:46 AM.


  8. #188

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Progressive whites have an out-group bias while non-progressive whites and all other races have an in-group bias.


    https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-new...-white-saviors

    I don't know how to process this right now.

  9. #189
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    To sum up...
    To sum up, listen to the audio. The relevant question is not whether the asinine idiot is a racist. Of course he is. The relevant question is if the American people and the Republican Party are going to stop this, once and for all.
    It's the Racist Family Von Trump against nine blacks. This is the proof that we are living in the Star Trek mirror universe.
    It would be nine blacks against nine whites...while there would be a mix of light-skinned and dark skinned black contestants, the white team would consist solely of people with blond hair.


    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I have no white-nationalist friends.
    I'm sorry to know that you don't have any friends. ( j/k)

    --
    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Communists prefer Clinton and whoever wins the primaries.
    Not at all...the communist world is against the liberal democracy.The Communist Party of the USA did not endorse Hillary Clinton, but did encourage members to vote against her rival, Donald Trump.
    The radical,racist far right loves Trump.
    KKK's official newspaper supports Donald Trump for president - The ...

    Last edited by Ludicus; July 31, 2019 at 05:18 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  10. #190

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    The problem is that the Trump supports probably have tuned out anything the media says about Trump, and just assume that what ever was reported was distorted by the media. The Republican leadership does not like Trump, but they couldn't stop him from getting the nomination, and even though they don't like it, he got the nomination and got elected anyways. As long as Trump gets elected, they won't do anything, even if many of them think he is scum. Since the left clearly has been looking for anyway they could to remove Trump (just read the foreword in Lindsay West's book, for example, where she and here friends were talking if there was anyway to impeach Trump before he even took office), they pretty much have lost all credibility with those who are not already in their camp (i.e., the Left).

    As far as starting a race war, the media has been as guilty when it played up events like the Trayvon Martin Shooting. While the shooting was a tragedy, it really was some local affair that all evidence points to a case of self defense. (Martin was not some innocent person, he was shot because he was physically assaulting Zimmerman - if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman, Zimmerman would have been convicted. (While the politicized trial tried to make Zimmerman the aggressor, the lack of wounds on Martin other than the bullet wound, and the wounds on Zimmerman consistent with Zimmerman's account demolished the prosecutions argument. And despite the prostitution's view they can make up laws when they choose, it is not a crime for a person to walk up to another and ask what they are doing.). The media reporting in the Zimmerman trial did far more than Trumps words ever could in promoting a race war on both sides, and was rather bias - showing pictures of a much younger Martin than he was, failing to point out that there had previously been a black neighborhood watchman who shot and killed a white student, and also got off, showing a picture of a laughing Zimmerman instead of the police pictures that showed Zimmerman's injuries, etc.

    Whites thought Zimmerman should not have even been charged in the first place, and African Americans were upset that Zimmerman wasn't convicted, and the media was responsible for both attitudes. So frankly, since I don't have any respect for the media, I don't care what they report about Trumps name calling. While demeaning the office of the presidency, it doesn't even begin to compare to the race baiting the media is guilty of.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; July 31, 2019 at 08:40 PM.

  11. #191

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Oh, are the depomcrats still just running on the platform of orange man bad? Very glad to hear that

  12. #192

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Ilhan Omar stated white men are responsible for the majority of violent crimes in this country. She is making up lies to degrade a certain group and suggesting they be tracked. How long has it been since Democrats were this vocal about how horrible a group of people were? 160 years?

    If white men are so horrible, move somewhere their evil democracy hasn't spread. Don't try to establish it there either, that would be cultural appropriation and that's wrong.

    The Democrats applaud her and condemn Trump. Shut up and fix your inner cities that are riddled by poverty and crime.
    Last edited by NorthernXY; July 31, 2019 at 11:02 PM.

  13. #193
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    To sum up, listen to the audio.
    There's no audio in the article?
    The relevant question is not whether the asinine idiot is a racist. Of course he is.
    I don't think he is. Plenty of others don't think he is.
    The relevant question is if the American people and the Republican Party are going to stop this, once and for all.
    It's the Racist Family Von Trump against nine blacks. This is the proof that we are living in the Star Trek mirror universe.
    Just because he pitched an idea to have 2 teams where everyone's the same race doesn't mean that he thinks ill of either race.


    I'm sorry to know that you don't have any friends. ( j/k)
    Oh, I have friends, they just aren't obsessed with race
    Not at all...the communist world is against the liberal democracy.The Communist Party of the USA did not endorse Hillary Clinton, but did encourage members to vote against her rival, Donald Trump.
    The radical,racist far right loves Trump.
    KKK's official newspaper supports Donald Trump for president - The ...

    In a 2 party system, when you urge to vote against one candidate, you're basically telling your people to vote for the other candidate. You say "not at all", but clearly no such encouragement was made to vote against Clinton, so they did prefer Clinton, just as I said.
    The radial, racist far-right also hates Trump for having Jews in his family.


  14. #194
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Just because he pitched an idea to have 2 teams where everyone's the same race doesn't mean that he thinks ill of either race
    Wow! it doesn't matter who wins or loses...


    Did you watch this movie? Escape to Victory ?


    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I don't think he is. Plenty of others don't think he is.
    Thinking about it...By Republican Standards, Almost Nothing Is Racist - The Atlantic

    ...given the fact that Africans are monkeys.



    ---
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; August 03, 2019 at 06:22 AM. Reason: Continuity.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  15. #195
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Wow! it doesn't matter who wins or loses...
    He didn't say who would win?
    Did you watch this movie? Escape to Victory ?
    Nope, any good?



    "But however damning one considers her statements, it’s utterly illogical to claim that they constitute bigotry while Trump’s far more direct attack does not."
    Your article wants us to think that saying that Jews only care about money, a typical anti-semetic trope, is as bad as saying.. well, nothing related to their race at all actually. He didn't say anything negative about Blacks, Arabs, Latinos.. heck, he didn't even explicitly say who he was talking about, how is that "far more direct"?
    ...given the fact that Africans are monkeys.


    What does Reagan have to do with this?


  16. #196
    Miles
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    What does Reagan have to do with this?
    Reagan and Trump have so much in common.

    Both former actors who were life-long Democrats who ran on a Republican presidential ticket
    Both work as symbols of capitalism
    Both took their first names from Ronald McDonald

  17. #197

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Trump is not really comparable to any modern President. Reagan could string words and sentences together, very well actually. Trump is a man-child with an army of retainers trying to minimize his potential damage.

  18. #198
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Trump is not really comparable to any modern President. Reagan could string words and sentences together, very well actually. Trump is a man-child with an army of retainers trying to minimize his potential damage.
    I forgot about this narrative. Thanks for bringing it back up.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  19. #199

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    If Trump is "dumb man-child", then what can we say about his opponents, who keep losing against him over and over again?

  20. #200

    Default Re: Trump, I hear you're a racist..............

    I dunno, when Sally pushes Billy over in the sandbox and tells him that he fights like a girl, how does she not understand she is self-denigrating?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

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