[Submod] Unofficial 12tpy Recruitment Mod

[Jake Armitage]

I have no idea yet, I'm probably the greatest fan of slower paces but I have still to understand what this feature could mean for gameplay.
In many cases to have a full army into testudo you'll need 20 turns (lowered recruitment cap) and honestly it seems quite enough.
Wait too many turns for recruiting isn't so good for gameplay imo and also will give you space to gain more money (since you'll be somehow halted for more turns).

[TrippinDaJive]

I have no idea yet, I'm probably the greatest fan of slower paces but I have still to understand what this feature could mean for gameplay.
In many cases to have a full army into testudo you'll need 20 turns (lowered recruitment cap) and honestly it seems quite enough.
Wait too many turns for recruiting isn't so good for gameplay imo and also will give you space to gain more money (since you'll be somehow halted for more turns).

Yeah no kidding, add this mod with testudo and those 20 turns could go into 30+! And I agree that waiting too much would be boring but as far saving money goes, the same applies to the AI so there isn't necessarily an imbalance with that.

[Jake Armitage]

Mostly correct but i'm a big hater of big treasuries (my player gameplay philosophy is to set money gained to what you need only, I've added many features, scripted and not, about this. Last one is the economical trust from VPS).
In vanilla DeI and all DeI submods AI money is always positive, it doesn't change much if you give them more. The only difference lies in the type of source of this money. If it's scripted it has been 99% recognized that AI won't calculate it much (even if it will aware about his treasury capability). That's the reason of KAM/Dardo AE (and consequently Scipio's Realism), giving a different way to set thresholds costs will help the AI handling its inner calculations.

Modding speculations apart, this turn recruitment feature is wonderful and has a great potential for a customized gameplay.

[Ygraine]

I think if you go with 1 turn for levies/militias, 2 for medium troops and 3 for elites (4 for the best elites perhaps, noble-tier) it'll be just enough. That's what I'm going with. Anything above would be too long for the average player.

[JaeSunRyoo]

Hey Trippin! Really happy that this sort of mod exists, props to you!

I was wondering, though; I've tried doing something along the lines of this for both research/building/training times. I haven't done too much testing, but it was for R2 and it just seems to crash. That got me wondering - is there some sort of hard limit for how large you can scale training times and such?

Example: if I wanted to make a proper training scale time for a 24tpy mode, and, say, wanted to multiply training times up to x24. Or would you advise to keep it to a lower scale?

Thanks!

[TrippinDaJive]

Thanks for the support! In regards to your question, I have to admit that my modding experience hasn't been very long. I couldn't answer your question with confidence but if your game is crashing due to only those changes, then I'd assume there is some kind of limit. Although I'd really ask Dresden or Jake about it because they're the pros. Nonetheless, I encourage you to keep trying!

[ScipioTheGreat]

Hey Trippin! Really happy that this sort of mod exists, props to you!

I was wondering, though; I've tried doing something along the lines of this for both research/building/training times. I haven't done too much testing, but it was for R2 and it just seems to crash. That got me wondering - is there some sort of hard limit for how large you can scale training times and such?

Example: if I wanted to make a proper training scale time for a 24tpy mode, and, say, wanted to multiply training times up to x24. Or would you advise to keep it to a lower scale?

Thanks!

Shouldn’t be an issue, post your pack

[JaeSunRyoo]

Thanks for the replies to both Trippin and Scipio!

I have done a little testing and have noted that the training times don't really have any max training time (albeit I only tried upto 36 turns, lol.)

I think the main issue then would have related to the amount of points one tech has if they have to multiply it - I remember trying to modify the tech times accordingly to x12, but they kept crashing. The 12tpy script pack that I've gotten from Steam seems more complex as it actually has a script file instead of just simply editing the tech point amounts.

Will need further investigation, but I think for now I don't need further help, though any other discussion relating to modding building/tech times would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Jake Armitage]

you can check the Turtle_Parts inside testudo thread for building/tech times and other things regarding slower paces (testudo has a lot of features for that)

any official tpy pack has a script but it's totally ininfluent for what you need

[KAM 2150]

Did anyone had a chance to test this further? Over the weekend I tried to do similar thing myself, with unit recruitment between 2-5 turns.

Over 20 turns, I was looking at 3 different AI armies that were constantly in Mustering stance during that time. Etruscan stack recruited only 2 units with 2 turn recruitment, Epirus recruited only 1 unit over 14 turns and then just moved back to Greece and again back to Italy. Ligurian stack recruited only 2 units despite being in mustering stance for 20 turns.

[Jake Armitage]

I've added a little feature into upcomig testudo which won't let anyone recruit till first spring (1 turn in 4 tpy, 2 in 12 tpy)
You know what? 90% of the times I always see the army stationed in apollonia going to italy and the one in taras going to epirus.
The same "script" a rat has inside his brain when he's trapped.
What this means to me? That the hardcoded army behaviour script tells armies to move away if they don't have a nice place to grow but it doesn't tell them what's happening inside other owned places.
It doesn't make no harm since the turns are so few but I think that a permanent change like this submod is likely and statistically messing up armies behaviour.
I'm speaking theoretically, I never used this pack, I may be wrong but honestly I think this theory will statistically apply to the majority of campaigns.

[Beedo83]

I haven't started a new campaign with this mod activated, I added it into a ~30 turn Rome start and I'm happy with the results. Haven't noticed any buggy than normal behavior with armies being stuck in a rotation and everyone seems to be recruiting units and ships as normal. Very pleased so far and I've played about 40 additional turns so far.

[Jake Armitage]

@ kam and beedo:
may you do a list of the submods you were using? Might be that something is weirdly (even if it shouldn't be) affecting this?

[Beedo83]

@Jake
Sure: 12tpy recruiting, Turtle reforms and movement, 12tpy, settlers, AAA Generals, DEI Realism, upgradable roads, edict balance, immersive character names, more diplomatic outcomes, and gemfx.

[KAM 2150]

I have only used my custom pack with unit recruitment set between 2-5 turns based on unit cost.

[CrazyZombie]

I tried using this mod as Athens. AI wasn't acting like some real retard, but it's armies definitely could be better. It just made an army of somewhat about 50/50 of some crappy 1turn-recruited melee units and same for skirmishers. Not like AI with standard recruitment system poses big threat to Athens, especially with my love to hire mercenary pikemen as my starting army (the ones in Macedon region), but that time I felt like beating a child more than usual.

Maybe AI isn't good in handling more than 1 turn of recruitment when in a state of war.

[Jake Armitage]

Seems to me it's random. And why this is random really I don't know.

The only thing coming to my mind is the 12tpy.
Trippin and beedo used it and they noticed anything weird.
Honestly this is an improbable guess, I can't think of any real connection...

@crazyzombie: may you report your submods please?

[CrazyZombie]

@Jake Armitage

12tpy, age of hellenism, turtle reforms, research and buildings.

[Beedo83]

Hmm I'll pay attention to recently created armies' units then. I just wrapped up a war with Macedon, I know for a fact they had 2 fresh armies because they were almost annihilated by the Odryssians and were pushed out of Pella. They had nothing and were down to only holding the town north of Pella. They built back up and had 3 armies when I invaded. I subjugated them after a couple hard battles but their armies were pretty standard and this is 100+ turns after activating the mod. They had plenty of pikes and other decent units. No more active wars atm but I'll chime back in here when things go hot again.

[Jake Armitage]

Try to check the entire map by using the official cheat submod.
If you have time and will ofc.
Just put a character on the map and it will activate and remove fog of war
http://www.mediafire.com/file/hhb9i3...fwar.pack/file

Maybe you can track if something weird is happening by checking 4/5 turns