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Thread: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

  1. #141

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I still probably wouldn't build carriers, a bit of a vanity project in my opinion, but with the F-35 and the rapidly changing geopolitics, it may actually become much more useful than originally envisioned.
    If we ever get the bloody F35s

  2. #142
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Russia isn't a power on the level of the US (or China), that said it is beyond dumb to expect Russia to risk anything for Turkey. No historic ties or ability to sell actual risks to the russian public on account of Turkey, so Erdogan is just being his usual insane and shortsighted dictatorial self, no changes there.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  3. #143

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Can you name the short and medium range SAM systems that Turkey operate? How will they not be able to work with S-400s? You seem to be claiming that there is no arms production in Turkey. That's blatantly false. I don't know why you'd imply that. You also seem to be banking on the idea that S-400s will not be able to be used given that they don't have a magical connection to other systems. I don't see that as anything other than a baseless speculation.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 







    All of those Systems in Turkish Inventory are using NATO Radar Systems and their future Projects will also use them and are not made to or even planned to operate with a System like S-400.



    Seems to moreover a Partnership with this Company: https://www.diehl.com/defence/en/pro...fence-systems/

    For example those really old ones like I-HAWK XXI or these Rapiers from UK - they are used and stationed some of them in the past Military Campaign in Syria - together with those M1097 Avenger counterparts like Atılgan short-range air defense.

    There are also just some Radar Systems which also need some compatibility to being linked.
    Last edited by Nebaki; August 09, 2019 at 04:30 PM.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    What makes you think that Turkey isn't planning to integrate its other assets with the S-400?

  5. #145

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    What makes you think that Turkey isn't planning to integrate its other assets with the S-400?
    Because their other assets are integrated in a NATO military tactical data link and also have their standards for NATO while an S-400 even has very different Architecture and even made for a different Doctrine, it uses even a very different PLC that Russians even donīt use on their own Industry - simply itīs not really compatible - beside that it would have only a Function as Trojan and that will be for sure not allowed by NATO.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Because their other assets are integrated in a NATO military tactical data link and also have their standards for NATO while an S-400 even has very different Architecture and even made for a different Doctrine,
    1. What is S-400s "architecture"?
    2. What is the "architecture" of existing air defense assets
    3. What are they incompatible?

    it uses even a very different PLC that Russians even donīt use on their own Industry - simply itīs not really compatible - beside that it would have only a Function as Trojan and that will be for sure not allowed by NATO.
    What is "PLC", and the rest of your sentence doesn't make much sense to me. I can't understand what you are trying to get across.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    All of those Systems in Turkish Inventory are using NATO Radar Systems and their future Projects will also use them and are not made to or even planned to operate with a System like S-400.
    Seems to moreover a Partnership with this Company: https://www.diehl.com/defence/en/pro...fence-systems/
    For example those really old ones like I-HAWK XXI or these Rapiers from UK - they are used and stationed some of them in the past Military Campaign in Syria - together with those M1097 Avenger counterparts like Atılgan short-range air defense.
    There are also just some Radar Systems which also need some compatibility to being linked.
    Your picture doesn't show. I don't know which systems you're talking about. You're also not making any progress on explaining how they can never be used with S-400s.
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  8. #148
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Your picture doesn't show. I don't know which systems you're talking about. You're also not making any progress on explaining how they can never be used with S-400s.
    It is not working like you connect USB cable from missiles into PC, USB from radar to other end and start shooting app. If those system can be easily connected,can you please explain how? All expert articles says otherwise and I was not able to google secret information. It is not like code is on Github somewhere...

  9. #149

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    It is not working like you connect USB cable from missiles into PC, USB from radar to other end and start shooting app. If those system can be easily connected,can you please explain how? All expert articles says otherwise and I was not able to google secret information. It is not like code is on Github somewhere...
    I haven't really seen an expert article suggesting that. What I've seen has been simply vague claims from regular journalists. Though no one suggests that its as easy as plugging a USB. What you guys are basically claiming is that Turks can no create programs that speak between different systems. Though at first I need to what other systems are there in existence of Turkish arsenal that would require speaking to S-400s in the first place. I'm making these comments as someone knowing that various Turkish teams have been creating systems to be used in F-16s or in the larger Milgem project.

    S-400 is meant to be a stand alone system that can work on its own. Given that its the longest range system the stream of data would not be made into but from it. There is no need to feed shorter ranged BAE Systems' DN-181 Blindfire data, or Raytheon's MIM-23 Hawk into S-400s.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    Cities: Skylines
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ities-Skylines

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  10. #150

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post

    What is "PLC"
    Programmable Logic Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Your picture doesn't show. I don't know which systems you're talking about. You're also not making any progress on explaining how they can never be used with S-400s.
    Iīm talking about how anyone is going to copy IRIS-T and Variants and some local Projects that have started a few times ago in Turkey.


    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    You're also not making any progress on explaining how they can never be used with S-400s.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    I make it now very simple - there are different sockets types that are being used in the World - Russia maybe uses also the European Socket Type but this does not apply for their Military Industry and their Standards. It is easy to intergrate and buy an Missile from Norway for example your F-16 Fleet since they are:

    A - are in NATO
    B - already developing and integrating these standards of NATO
    C - have know-how of those other sub-systems

    In case of Russia:

    A- are not in NATO
    B- have their own Military Complex and Standards which are in-compatible with NATO ones like you cannot use a Tank Shell for an NATO Tank in a Russian and the other way around
    C- lack of know-how and experience for an NATO complex
    Last edited by Nebaki; August 11, 2019 at 03:33 PM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    I make it now very simple - there are different sockets types that are being used in the World - Russia maybe uses also the European Socket Type but this does not apply for their Military Industry and their Standards. It is easy to intergrate and buy an Missile from Norway for example your F-16 Fleet since they are:

    A - are in NATO
    B - already developing and integrating these standards of NATO
    C - have know-how of those other sub-systems

    In case of Russia:

    A- are not in NATO
    B- have their own Military Complex and Standards which are in-compatible with NATO ones like you cannot use a Tank Shell for an NATO Tank in a Russian and the other way around
    C- lack of know-how and experience for an NATO complex
    Let me try to be as simple as you are trying to be. It's not impossible to make converters to make different socket types compatible.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    Cities: Skylines
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ities-Skylines

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  12. #152

    Default Re: Turkey Kicked Out Of F-35 Program, NATO Compromised By Turkish Treachery

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Programmable Logic Controller
    Just say firmware, and that's not exactly a limitation.



    Iīm talking about how anyone is going to copy IRIS-T and Variants and some local Projects that have started a few times ago in Turkey.
    Are you talking about the short range air-air missile, or IRST?





    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    I make it now very simple - there are different sockets types that are being used in the World - Russia maybe uses also the European Socket Type but this does not apply for their Military Industry and their Standards. It is easy to intergrate and buy an Missile from Norway for example your F-16 Fleet since they are:

    A - are in NATO
    B - already developing and integrating these standards of NATO
    C - have know-how of those other sub-systems

    In case of Russia:

    A- are not in NATO
    B- have their own Military Complex and Standards which are in-compatible with NATO ones like you cannot use a Tank Shell for an NATO Tank in a Russian and the other way around
    C- lack of know-how and experience for an NATO complex
    This doesn't make sense. It doesn't need to be "compatible". They just need to be able to talk to each other. Which by the way, is dependent entirely on how their C2 is designed. Do units talk to each other? Or do they have to go up in the chain of command first?

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