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Thread: New DLC - 8 Princes

  1. #21

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    "We’ve also seen a lot of you asking for more characters in the main campaign (or turning some of our generic characters into unique characters), and this is something we absolutely would like to do moving forwards."

    Why not just delete the generic characters and use actual historical ones? It's not like there isn't an abundance of them.

  2. #22
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton View Post
    Why not just delete the generic characters and use actual historical ones? It's not like there isn't an abundance of them.
    Because how the game works? There is no problems setting initial situation. Factions, units, characters, from that point each individual game is unique evolution. We have dynamic system which is taking care about all those random people you need to fill game. Now in other to insert specific people at specific time and place, you need scripting. And you never has the assurance that each player will meet all characters. Like second, third generation....what if the faction is destroyed? Absorbed? What in case of rebels? If father is killed before...I´m merely pointing into problem. I would love more historical characters as well.

  3. #23

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Because how the game works? There is no problems setting initial situation. Factions, units, characters, from that point each individual game is unique evolution. We have dynamic system which is taking care about all those random people you need to fill game. Now in other to insert specific people at specific time and place, you need scripting. And you never has the assurance that each player will meet all characters. Like second, third generation....what if the faction is destroyed? Absorbed? What in case of rebels? If father is killed before...I´m merely pointing into problem. I would love more historical characters as well.
    The game is overrun with generic characters in a historical setting within 10 years. Smaller 3k games can manage it why can't Total War? It's not like they're all fully fleshed out with their own models. Someone as important as Cao Ren has a generic model. Fair enough if there wasn't that many known generals etc but come on, there are more than enough out there to fill out a proper roster of people. Why even have a records mode when you just have random people overtaking factions or being legendary generals?

  4. #24

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton View Post
    The game is overrun with generic characters in a historical setting within 10 years. Smaller 3k games can manage it why can't Total War? It's not like they're all fully fleshed out with their own models. Someone as important as Cao Ren has a generic model. Fair enough if there wasn't that many known generals etc but come on, there are more than enough out there to fill out a proper roster of people. Why even have a records mode when you just have random people overtaking factions or being legendary generals?
    Other games railroad rather heavily. They essentially force historical (or usually Romance) events to occur.

    Grooming your randomly generated generals is something of a Total War mainstay. The sheer amount of historical characters that this game contains is an anomaly in this series. There's around 750 in the files, though only about a hundred or so have unique titles.

    The most recent patch did just up the chance to put historical characters in the recruitment pools, but there's nothing forcing the AI to use them, and the churn for generals tends to be high. One can forget that there were hundreds of generals that were unnamed in the histories because their posts didn't see action or they were just subordinates of more famous people that the historians didn't focus on. If the sandbox makes them into a legend, then so be it.
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  5. #25
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    But the focus of Total War: Three Kingdoms is supposed to be the characters, right?
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  6. #26

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Yes, but that includes the randoms. In my opinion, CA should do more to make them distinct, rather than just shoving them more into the background. The issue is mostly that I have a hard time identifying them due to the sameface among the character portraits and the lack of things like titles and offices.

    Of course, this shouldn't preclude making the historical characters more distinct either. As many historical people as possible should have unique titles, abilities, events, portraits, etc. I'm currently trying to mod in unique titles and bios for people, but it's a lot of writing and it'd be great if CA at least added more people to the unique ceo_nodes.

    I think the best feeling is when you have a ton of historical officers that you've painstakingly assembled, but also have some randoms whose careers you've shaped and molded entirely without predilections from historical events and you get to see them stand shoulder to shoulder with the famous faces of history. That requires both historical characters who are prevalent feel like they represent their real life analogues, and randoms that feel distinct and memorable. You can't get it if there's nothing but randoms or if your randoms are too boring.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    I agree that the game needs randoms (I even mentioned such in my 3K review), however they should not overtake the officer pool within 10 game years. There are over 700 documented historic officers that can be used, so randoms shouldn't start rolling in until the historic officer pool gets to a certain point. Let's say the historic pool gets down to 30%, then randoms can start slowly coming in. But, more to the point, fans of the Three Kingdoms want to use and interact with the real people of the Three Kingdoms. I'm sure they would rather build up Che Zhou, Mi Fang or Sun Ben into a legendary character than the random Huangfa Xinglu.
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  8. #28
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    That was a great god damn trailer.

    I ain't jokin' when it comes to mah paintings ಠ_ಠ

  9. #29

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Hi Guys! I made a lore series covering the historical time period and characters for the Eight Princes DLC! If you are interested in this type of stuff, please check it out and enjoy!
    https://youtu.be/IMVxYcnehBU

  10. #30

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Nice trailer. Hope the game play matches.
    "The trouble with facts is that there are so many of them." - Samuel McChord Crothers

  11. #31
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    We finally discovered what that mysterious Chinese video clip depicting heroes facing hordes of nameless concscripts concerned:



    You know something is not right, when Grace is in damage-control mode in reddit. Anyway, I didn't expect to sacrifice a brand new warlord for the sake of a Free DLC, but the Dynasty mode, despite being optional, seems totally against the spirit of Total War.

  12. #32
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    We will see down the line. CA did laboratory mode for WH2 so why not? I actually understand that they want to get it out early. So later you can easily add LLs...at least that would be my logic.

  13. #33

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Honestly the best part about this whole thing is that at last all the various TW communities are united in their distaste for this mode. Oh well, at least it's free. Hopefully they don't actually expend any effort on this and take any more resources than it should from the rest of the game(which admittedly, even making this is more than it deserves but whatever).

  14. #34
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    I have to agree with others. I really don't see the appeal of this new mode, and it feels like it's taking Total War even further away from its core of turn based empire building grand strategy with large real time battles, in favour of larger than life characters with superpowers.

    It also seems like an odd choice to release this early in the games life, when past games we've seen the Grand Campaign (or equivalent) expanded with new playable factions/lords and mechanical refinements. Releasing alongside "8 Princes" also seems an odd choice, as it means the sum Grand Campaign content on 8th August is... a handful of new units?

    I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. But my immediate reaction is "huh?" followed by "this feels like the wrong FLC at the wrong time."

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  15. #35
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    So i went once again through all information...

    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-...asty-mode-faq/
    Will increasing unit sizes in Dynasty Mode affect my game’s performance?

    Dynasty Mode was developed in conjunction with Intel’s engineers to help the THREE KINGDOMS engine take better advantage of multi-core CPUs. Increasing unit sizes creates a greater CPU overhead, with more unit interactions and calculations required at the entity level. This enhanced multithreading enables superior performance the more cores the CPU has, so moving from quad-core to hex-core and eight-core processors is where you see the greatest framerate gains.

    Dynasty Mode’s required specifications are the same as the main Total War: THREE KINGDOMS game, and as it has been developed with Intel it will work with all hardware. However, unless you have a very high-powered PC, dramatically increasing unit sizes may negatively impact your frame rate or cause gameplay behaviours you won’t see in the main game.
    just to remind some older stuff...specially Laboratory mode from Warhammer 2
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/skaven-labs/

    The Laboratory offers a brand new free game mode for Total War: WARHAMMER II, designed in collaboration with Intel®. It introduces a custom battle playground with 16 different sliders to tinker and play with to push your battles to new and ridiculous levels of mayhem.

    The Laboratory offers a possible glimpse into the future of Total War technology, primarily leveraging Intel’s latest multi-core processors to drive additional performance beyond the original game’s design parameters. Any PC can attempt to use The Laboratory, but your performance will vary wildly so be warned that lower end PCs may massively struggle, or crash, when sliders are pushed to the max.
    So yeah, I would say the CA has some kind of deal with Intel. Probably some optimalization help or so and in return this is basically CA´s promo for Intel new HW...I think this is simply one time event and the rest of FLCs will be game related. Just look at WH2.

    Last edited by Daruwind; August 03, 2019 at 02:25 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    So yeah, I would say the CA has some kind of deal with Intel. Probably some optimalization help or so and in return this is basically CA´s promo for Intel new HW...I think this is simply one time event and the rest of FLCs will be game related. Just look at WH2.
    That this is some part of their partnership contract with Intel is almost guaranteed, but I still find it disappointing, as even as a performance metric gathering scheme for Intel, it feels sufficiently divorced from what Total War is that it doesn't feel worth the dev time invested.

    The Warhammer 2 workshop was weird and gimmicky, but it was the same Total War Warhammer battles that I loved with just extra options that encouraged me to engage with the same Total War loop in new ways. It was Total War battles but bigger and weirder, which I could get behind.

    If they had just given 3K the workshop, I would've been "Ok, not exactly what I wanted, but still cool. I'll give it a few spins." An actual horde mode where you got a small army that you had to use your skill at Total War to keep alive over many waves of enemies would've also been welcome, even if not expressly desired. However, this 'Dynasty' mode isn't the kind of thing I play Total War for, because there's barely any Total War in it. Single entity heroes are already only halfway functional in game. They don't interact with units very well, which is why one usually just throws the into duels or keeps them embedded into their retinues unless you're cheesing. It's somewhat tolerable because there's enough going on in the rest of the battle to fill in the gameplay gaps and let you soak in the aesthetic when it pleases you, but this mode is getting rid of that and forcing you to only deal with the heroes at their jankiest.

    This screams of something the devs made for their own sake, because they wanted to see if they could do Dynasty Warriors in their own game.
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by zoner16 View Post
    That this is some part of their partnership contract with Intel is almost guaranteed, but I still find it disappointing, as even as a performance metric gathering scheme for Intel, it feels sufficiently divorced from what Total War is that it doesn't feel worth the dev time invested.

    The Warhammer 2 workshop was weird and gimmicky, but it was the same Total War Warhammer battles that I loved with just extra options that encouraged me to engage with the same Total War loop in new ways. It was Total War battles but bigger and weirder, which I could get behind.

    If they had just given 3K the workshop, I would've been "Ok, not exactly what I wanted, but still cool. I'll give it a few spins." An actual horde mode where you got a small army that you had to use your skill at Total War to keep alive over many waves of enemies would've also been welcome, even if not expressly desired. However, this 'Dynasty' mode isn't the kind of thing I play Total War for, because there's barely any Total War in it. Single entity heroes are already only halfway functional in game. They don't interact with units very well, which is why one usually just throws the into duels or keeps them embedded into their retinues unless you're cheesing. It's somewhat tolerable because there's enough going on in the rest of the battle to fill in the gameplay gaps and let you soak in the aesthetic when it pleases you, but this mode is getting rid of that and forcing you to only deal with the heroes at their jankiest.

    This screams of something the devs made for their own sake, because they wanted to see if they could do Dynasty Warriors in their own game.
    This mode is pretty much the same as the normal battles encountered in campaign with the exception is that we control only heroes and not retinues. Pretty much like Romance mode battle made bigger so I dont see where there 'barely any total war' comes from.

    In any case, it's not something I interested though. Not in TW games. Probably will still download it and play once for the experience and see how my Ryzen fare in this Intel sponsored mode. 😁

  18. #38
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by zoner16 View Post
    This screams of something the devs made for their own sake, because they wanted to see if they could do Dynasty Warriors in their own game.
    nanana. You are probably mixing reasons and consequences. If there is really some Intel promo deal, CA had to do something aka laboratory. So the dynasty mode is consequence of that reason. CA was simply trying to put in some stylish form instead of yet another laboratory mode.

    (And I would love also something different but if it is keep to one time FLC like WH2 one, then why not. After all, it is FLC...)

  19. #39

    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT View Post
    This mode is pretty much the same as the normal battles encountered in campaign with the exception is that we control only heroes and not retinues. Pretty much like Romance mode battle made bigger so I dont see where there 'barely any total war' comes from.

    In any case, it's not something I interested though. Not in TW games. Probably will still download it and play once for the experience and see how my Ryzen fare in this Intel sponsored mode. 
    Part of the reason I boot up Total War games to play around with real time battles with interesting unit tactics and matchups. Personally to me, the TW:3K heroes never really fit well into that model unlike the TW:WH heroes. They have their moments, but generally, the heroes just don't feel like Total War units, but either walking buff zones or duel fodder. There's a lot of reasons for this that I hope to formally dissect at some point, but generally, using 3K heroes on enemy units doesn't really scratch that tactics itch that I usually turn to TW for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    nanana. You are probably mixing reasons and consequences. If there is really some Intel promo deal, CA had to do something aka laboratory. So the dynasty mode is consequence of that reason. CA was simply trying to put in some stylish form instead of yet another laboratory mode.

    (And I would love also something different but if it is keep to one time FLC like WH2 one, then why not. After all, it is FLC...)
    I was more referring to the nature of this Faustian-contracted Intel promo mode. I have no doubt that CA is obligated to make something that Intel can milk for metrics, but I think the purely-hero focused nature of this 'Dynasty Mode' has to do more with someone at CA wanted to see if they could capture the DW magic than anything else. Else we would've just gotten the Laboratory instead, which I would've much preferred.
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  20. #40
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: New DLC - 8 Princes

    So, any thoughts about the new DLC? Generally speaking, the reviews so far have been mixed, as many had been disappointed by the lack of content. Also, the 8 Princes is not a particularly popular period, either in the West or in the East. These complaints remind me of the potential issues concerning the chapter packs I had mentioned, although admittedly, the price is not very high, in comparison to Empire Divided, for example. However, negativity has increased, fuelled by the problems present in the original game, so, in my opinion, Creative Assembly needs to reconsider its priorities. "Race" packs have much more potential, I suspect. After all, although I didn't doubt that the 8 Princes will have been forgotten quickly, I also didn't expect that the DLC will include only 8 unique characters (the princes themselves) without any extra addition. Together with the Dynasty mode and Netease debacles, it's not difficult to imagine why CA's reputation has been unnecessarily damaged, following the critically acclaimed release of Three Kingdoms (despite the empty south).

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