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Thread: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod [NEW VERSION- SUPPORT FOR AI ERED LUIN]

  1. #1

    Icon1 [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod [NEW VERSION- SUPPORT FOR AI ERED LUIN]

    Divide and Conquer 3.0- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    "In some parts wicked dwarves had even made alliances with [goblins and orcs]" (The Hobbit, Over Hill and Under Hill)


    The Dwarven Rings Choice Submod is a submod for Divide and Conquer 3.0 that provides an Ered Luin player with the option of turning against their dwarven kin, and siding with Mordor to regain the three remaining dwarven rings. Along the way, a small narrative will unfold chronicling the tales of Grindfarn and the Dourhand clan.
    Version 2 is now out- adding support for AI Ered Luin, bug fixes and other enhancements.

    Features:
    • At Turn 37, an Ered Luin player will be faced the option of accepting Mordor's offer of friendship, to regain the dwarven rings or rejecting this offer and reconciling with the Elves of Lindon, and gaining access to Elven knowledge.
    • An 'evil' Ered Luin gains the dwarven general Grindfarn, unique dwarven rings of power with fleshed out backstories, the ability to build the War Forge, the Obsidian Guard unit (Recruited from normal barracks after the BE- no AOR restrictions) and the ability to restore the ruined Halls of Belegost (A new building in Thorin's Halls), plus some surprises
    • A 'good' Ered Luin can build the Teleri Haven in port provinces, which allows the recruitment of Teleri troops alongside elven ships, but will have to face a rebellion by dwarves who argue that Mordor's friendship should be accepted. They also gain the ability to recruit the Gabilgathol Guard.
    • A series of narrative events accompany the above features, chronicling the fate of the impoverished Dourhand clan and their leader Grindfarn, who wish to restore their home in Belegost and your decision will influence whether they accomplish their dream or fade to obscurity


    Installation Instructions:
    • Download the zip file from the link below, extract it using a program such as 7zip and merge the data folder within with the data folder in your Divide and Conquer mod folder and place the Steam Friendly Cleaner BAT file in the same folder as the bat file used to lauch DAC. Then, run the Steam Friendly Cleaner BAT file before you launch DAC.


    Download Link (Version 2!):
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ap4...ew?usp=sharing
    Old Version:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Changelog:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    New Features:
    - Added Alenwe's custom portrait
    - Added custom names and backstories to each of the Dwarven Rings of Power (Taking inspiration from MERP)- Angya's (Thrain's ring's) description has been cut down so it no longer reads like a wikapedia entry and is in a similar format to the other two
    - Each of the Dwarven Rings now has unique powers in addition to their usual money bonuses. These powers tie into their new backstories.
    - Added AI version of the Ring Script (No stacks spawn to attack AI Ered Luin) with full event text and event UIs. Mordor receives custom versions of these events that flesh out Mordor's true plan behind the decision to offer the rings to Ered Luin
    - Allowed Grindfarn to spawn for a Mordor player, IF Ered Luin remains good, with a reduced army
    - Updated Agundaur's and Ancantar's biographies to reflect the fact they are now 2nd and 1st Inquistor respectivly (Plus, added surprises to Agundaur's biography)

    Bug Fixes:
    - Fixed some typos in historic events
    - Fixed Grindfarn's clone attacking the player if they sided with Mordor
    - Sauron no longer lies, and will now reward the player will all three dwarven rings
    - Fixed Grindfarn's and Alenwe's campaign models and tooltips
    - Dwarven Rings of Power are now transferable

    Misc:
    - Labelled the campaign script
    - Updated Mordor's campaign description to mention the armies they get if Khand or Ered Luin choose good in their scripts
    - Removed 2nd level of the War Foundry in preparation of larger changes to come...


    Open Beta Information:
    • This submod now supports AI Ered Luin, and AI Ered Luin can turn against you if you play as Bree, the High Elves or the Northern Dunedain
    • At this point, the 'Good' path of Ered Luin is more or less finalized. I feel however the 'evil' path lacks in someways compared to the good path, which has a really nice narrative conclusion and the Teleri Haven, and so I am very open to ideas on how this path could be improved. Some ideas could include:
      • The Great War Foundry (The 2nd Tier of the War Foundry) could gain a unique ability depending on which faction capital you build it in
      • Restoring Belegost could supply a new armour level that upgrades your more elite troops to have the same armour as the Obsidain Guard
      • Give the Obsidian Guard the relentless trait, when the next version releases if animations allow us to do so
      • Allow 'evil' Ered Luin to build the troll cage and recruit trolls normally
      • Changing name of Obsidian Guard to Nauglamir Guard for the enhanced flavour?

    • Some more wild ideas, that are 100% beyond my skill level could be:
      • Belegost as a new region, beginning ruined, with only Evil Ered Luin being able to rebuild it like Fornost. Rebuilding it and the Halls could perhaps unlock a new unit if space was freed up. One idea of the new unit could be- Guardians of Nimphelos (Heavy pike unit with blue plate armour in style of Bronze Guard, holds a pike and large tower shield and the shield is embedded with a white sphere in the middle of the shield in homage to the pearl of Nimphelos which was a treasure of Belegost)?

    • I would also like to know how 'evil' do people want 'evil' Ered Luin to be. Using the Dungeons and Dragons morality system as an easy metaphor, at the moment 'evil' Ered Luin is closer to chaotic neutral rather than evil. Do you like the current sympathetic 'evil' Ered Luin or do you want them to be more evil?
    • In this Open Beta I am also looking for feedback on the balance of the script. Are the new buildings too powerful? Not powerful enough? Are they too expensive? Not expensive enough? How is the balance of the rebellion a Good Ered Luin faces? Is it too powerful, too weak? Do you think more stackks should spawn? Ideally, it should make a Good Ered Luin player seriously consider abandoning their homeland, bundling their troops onto ships and fleeing elsewhere to somewhere not as dangerous, and reclaiming their homeland later on in the game. If you did try and flee on ships, did you have enough time to build them? Or do you think some should spawn for you? If you find anything you think is a bug, please report it, and if you have a suggestion on how to fix it, please provide it.
    • Known Bugs:
      • Ered Luin cave trolls are silver surfers


    Thank you in advance for your feedback and testing. I appreciate it a lot.
    Last edited by Link12; July 21, 2019 at 08:23 AM. Reason: New Version of Submod
    All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

    But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


    My avatar is Romana from Doctor Who, one of my favorite characters in all of fiction

  2. #2

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Looking forward to trying this out. I like the idea of them getting trolls and a different upgrade tier granting them black armor. I had a campaign as EL where I took out the elves and made it so I could recruit the ships and that made the campaign interesting as I could sail easily and contest with other naval powers. Although I do feel that giving them trolls would make them exceptionally powerful as a nation, maybe they could lose access to the rangers to compensate for getting trolls if you decide to go that route. Since gabilgathol guard recruitment is only on the good side, perhaps it could be scripted so that Grindfarn usurps the seat of power and kills Clanlord Gor and the ranger general, preventing the player access to those two units. And since this happens before the Barracks event the player couldn't recruit those units anyways. That's just my .02 on it prior to playing, apologies if this is formatted poorly as I am using mobile.

  3. #3

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Quote Originally Posted by Universal Bum View Post
    Looking forward to trying this out. I like the idea of them getting trolls and a different upgrade tier granting them black armor. I had a campaign as EL where I took out the elves and made it so I could recruit the ships and that made the campaign interesting as I could sail easily and contest with other naval powers. Although I do feel that giving them trolls would make them exceptionally powerful as a nation, maybe they could lose access to the rangers to compensate for getting trolls if you decide to go that route. Since gabilgathol guard recruitment is only on the good side, perhaps it could be scripted so that Grindfarn usurps the seat of power and kills Clanlord Gor and the ranger general, preventing the player access to those two units. And since this happens before the Barracks event the player couldn't recruit those units anyways. That's just my .02 on it prior to playing, apologies if this is formatted poorly as I am using mobile.
    -> I shall not be removing the Broadbeam Marksmen (That is what you mean by ranger unit, right?) from evil Ered Luin. As Ered Luin has such a small roster already, cutting a unit, especially a unique unit such as the Broadbeam Marksmen would really hurt their faction identity. The Broadbeam Marksmen are one of the things that makes the stand out from the other two dwarven nations, so that has to stay or evil Ered Luin may become quite dull.
    -> Allowing Evil Ered Luin to build boats if they take Lindon sounds like a good idea to me. If I allow the Great War Foundry to do different things depending on where its built, its ability in Lindon will be to build ships.
    -> There is no need to kill off Gor. The narrative in the script makes it quite clear that if Ered Luin turns evil, it is Gor's (Or whoever is Clanlord) decision, and Grindfarn has no reason to kill someone who has helped him- but don't worry, if you side against Grindfarn and stay good, he will try to kill you off. I don't see a problem with allowing Evil Ered Luin access to a single unit of the gabilgathol guard that they lose if they get Gor killed off myself.
    Thank you for your feedback, it is helpful.
    All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

    But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


    My avatar is Romana from Doctor Who, one of my favorite characters in all of fiction

  4. #4

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    This looks very promising!

  5. #5

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Person sugestion why not allow Ered Luin to enslave some goblins and orcs to use as frontline fodder; that's not out of the realm of possibility and allowing them to recruit orc and goblin units as a evil makes sense from the quote in the hobbit where wicked dwarves would make alliances with them, also wouldn't be past them to enslave hobbits and bree men to full their war machine too
    Supreme Commander of the Galactic Federation, Emperor of the Virtupets Empire, Star King
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  6. #6

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Quote Originally Posted by jedi7000nathan View Post
    Person sugestion why not allow Ered Luin to enslave some goblins and orcs to use as frontline fodder; that's not out of the realm of possibility and allowing them to recruit orc and goblin units as a evil makes sense from the quote in the hobbit where wicked dwarves would make alliances with them, also wouldn't be past them to enslave hobbits and bree men to full their war machine too
    Going of that suggestion, what would people think of giving Evil Ered Luin access to a tweaked version of the AA's enslavement system? I was thinking enslaved units could come from the normal war foundry, with the Great War foundry providing some additional bonus, whether it be a new unit, or a faction wide bonus. The Great War Foundry could then only be built in the 'great' cities (Thorin's Halls, Lindon, Bree, Carn Dum, Gundabad, Khazad-Dum West and East, Erebor, Dain's Halls?, Dale, Thranduil's Halls, Dol Guldur, Lothlorien, Caras Sant, Mistrand, Beorn's Halls, Goblin Town, Minas Tirth, Edoras, Isengard, the Dunland Capital, the Endewaith Capital, Helm's Deep (Glittering Caves inversion), Edoras, Osgiliath East and West, Royal Tharbad, Minas Morgul, Barad Dur, Dol Amroth, Umbar, Harad's capital, Iron Hills and Khand's capital.)
    I was thinking that the War Foundries could provide an enslavement system that is slower, and requires a higher level of dwarf culture, than the AA enslavement system BUT it provides access to a slightly expanded range of units (Such as dwarves) to show the power of the Dwarven rings. The Great War Foundries would then provide access to a single higher tier unit if they were built in most nations' capitals, and bonuses in elven capitals (Or boats in Lindon) and other non-capital cities (Such as Dain's Halls perhaps).

    What would people think of a system like that? Do you think an enslavement system would make the AA less unique, and if I went ahead with it, do you think the existing bonuses on the War Foundries should remain, although nerfed, or should they be cut? If you like the above ideas, do you have any ideas for the unique Great War foundries bonuses or units? I would love to hear some feedback overall. I would especially love to hear some ideas of ways to distinguish it from the AA enslavement system.
    All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

    But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


    My avatar is Romana from Doctor Who, one of my favorite characters in all of fiction

  7. #7

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Is this what is supposed to eventually go into the next version of DAC? Elements of it sound radically different than what was discussed before.

  8. #8

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    I'd Love it, Personally the more unit variety the better; also gives you a reason to keep moving after you've won to paint the map
    Supreme Commander of the Galactic Federation, Emperor of the Virtupets Empire, Star King
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  9. #9

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Also allows the Dwarves to fill holes in their roster; like Cav
    Supreme Commander of the Galactic Federation, Emperor of the Virtupets Empire, Star King
    Certified Genius
    M L I G: Mandy Luxe is the Greatest
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  10. #10

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Cool and interesting project! Unfortunately I won't have time to participate in the test.

    Not a fan of a subjugation system for the dwarfes, it takes away not only from AA but also the ND. Furthermore, DAC aims at giving each faction an unique identity and roster which is watered down a lot this way. Cav trainable for dwarfes e.g. is a no-go for me.
    I like the black armour upgrade idea and the trolls though.

    Out of curiousity: What inspired you to this work? As it is confirmed the ring script (probably a different version though) will be part of the next official patch/update it seems kind of like redundant work.

  11. #11

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    I share the same opinion as Auerode, i like the black armor upgrade and trolls but i don't like the slavement system for dwarves, specially if you are talking about giving them access to other nation's cavalry.

  12. #12

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Hello again, I now agree that the ranger should not leave the roster since that would take away their identity. I like the idea of the war foundry allowing for recruitment of other factions troops, but I do not think it should give them cavalry options (maybe if you decide to go to Khand you can recruit some) and I think it should only be possible to construct in major cities. Maybe the axesmith guild could be removed from Ered Luin and the war foundry would provide the melee weapon upgrades. I think allowing the evil side to at least recruit orc trash and then trolls is a great idea, but they should not get middle or elite tier orcs in my opinion. Perhaps the Evil side of the Dwarves would have restricted dwarven unit recruitment outside of mountain regions although that may take scripting if made to be a separate feature from the good side. If the war foundry would allow for recruitment of ships in Lindon, I think it should only build basic longships, while rejecting Mordor and solidifying the alliance with the high elves should allow you access to their superior ships.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Auerode View Post
    Cool and interesting project! Unfortunately I won't have time to participate in the test.

    Not a fan of a subjugation system for the dwarfes, it takes away not only from AA but also the ND. Furthermore, DAC aims at giving each faction an unique identity and roster which is watered down a lot this way. Cav trainable for dwarfes e.g. is a no-go for me.
    I like the black armour upgrade idea and the trolls though.

    Out of curiousity: What inspired you to this work? As it is confirmed the ring script (probably a different version though) will be part of the next official patch/update it seems kind of like redundant work.
    I was inspired by the fact that the idea of Ered Luin getting the ring script was a suggestion I made and advocated for, and was accepted but the lack of a scripter on the DAC dev team meant that this idea has been pushed back, and may never happen, so I thought I would do it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Multicolored View Post
    Is this what is supposed to eventually go into the next version of DAC? Elements of it sound radically different than what was discussed before.
    I have as much idea about whether this will end up in the next version as you do. All this is, is a submod I created so there would be a version of the Ered Luin script out there, if the DaC team never got to do an official version. The overall script is different to my suggestion as now parts of it are based on the DaC team's plan for the script- for instance, that is where Grindfarn comes from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Universal Bum View Post
    Hello again, I now agree that the ranger should not leave the roster since that would take away their identity. I like the idea of the war foundry allowing for recruitment of other factions troops, but I do not think it should give them cavalry options (maybe if you decide to go to Khand you can recruit some) and I think it should only be possible to construct in major cities. Maybe the axesmith guild could be removed from Ered Luin and the war foundry would provide the melee weapon upgrades. I think allowing the evil side to at least recruit orc trash and then trolls is a great idea, but they should not get middle or elite tier orcs in my opinion. Perhaps the Evil side of the Dwarves would have restricted dwarven unit recruitment outside of mountain regions although that may take scripting if made to be a separate feature from the good side. If the war foundry would allow for recruitment of ships in Lindon, I think it should only build basic longships, while rejecting Mordor and solidifying the alliance with the high elves should allow you access to their superior ships.
    That is the idea- siding with the High Elves will give you cool elven ships but getting the rings and taking Lindon will allow you to only build rubbish ships.



    Okie dokie then, the impression that I am getting is that people are mixed on the idea of an enslavement system for Ered Luin- which I totally agree with. I am concerned that it may feel too similar to the AA as well. However, I have received feedback from a member of the testing team as well, and from all this feedback I would like to put forth the following for Evil Ered Luin:
    • Evil Ered Luin retains Grindfarn spawning as a general with the three dwarven rings
    • The War Foundry line will be condensed into a single building- the War Foundry, this retains the current effects of the War Foundry with additional effects coming if you build it in certain regions
    • Ered Luin will not get a general enslavement system- rather they will be able to recruit some units from other factions via special means
      • Taking Lindon will allow you to build wooden cogs
      • Rebuilding the Halls of Belegost will allow you to recruit extremely limited numbers of low tier dwarven units from Khazad-Dum and Erebor- this represents the restored glory of Belegost attracting greedy dwarves from the other nations (If Belegost ever became its own region, this would be changed to allow you to build the Hall of the Seven in Belegost)
      • Building the War Foundry in the capital of a human nation will allow you to recruit units who would logically fight for the dwarves (Units who have a reputation for being mercs or greedy mostly)- there will be an extremely limited selection of cav if you take Edoras or Khand's capital. This represents the dwarves subjugating the human capital, crushing morale and attracting greedy humans through the power of the rings.
      • Building the War Foundry in the capital of a dwarven nation allows you to recruit more elite dwarven units from that nation- as you now have crushed that dwarven nation, the power of the rings attracts more dwarves to your cause.
      • Building the War Foundry in the capital of an orc nation allows you to recruit trolls from that building- additionally, you can recruit trolls from a War Foundry built in Thorin's Halls. Furthermore, any War Foundry built in the Misty Mountains or Morder allows you to recruit orc trash.
      • Taking an Elven Capital will grant you a small reward from Sauron (Either some orc units or a special general)

    • I also hope to implement the Obsidian armour upgrade for elite Ered Luin units, and a new unit- the Nimphelos Guardians. The final tier of the Dwarven blacksmith line will now be exclusive to Evil Ered Luin, and will require you to sack Lindon to regain the treasures of Nogrod to build it. The Numphelos Guardians will come from the rebuilt Halls of Belegost.
    • Finally, siding with Mordor will now place you in an alliance with Mordor directly. If people feel that overall the script is easy, I am open to spawning an army from Erebor to attack the player, and removing population from cities to simulate dwarves fleeing from Ered Luin to Erebor and Khazad-Dum.

    How does that sound?
    All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

    But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


    My avatar is Romana from Doctor Who, one of my favorite characters in all of fiction

  14. #14

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    -Love the idea of the armor upgrade giving their mainline troops the black armor.

    -I think chaotic neutral works well for evil dwarves - not being super into mordor or worshiping sauron, they just see a political opportunity to expand their realm by taking out some stinky elves. I think some flavor messages popping up prior to the event regarding a rabblerouser gaining support for taking back rightful dwarven lands to the south could add some good background to the mod.

    -I am not convinced about Dwarves using trolls (maybe just the troll catapult? I could see an argument the dwarves see value in having trolls to push their siege equip around), and personally disagree about being able to recruit orcs. I think a gold reward from Mordor for capturing elven towns makes more sense - or a trade bonus if possible? Maybe unlock a farm upgrade and pop. bonus as men now come to tend the fertile elven lands and trade food to the dwarves?

    -The Mercenary route of recruiting greedy units sounds perfect instead of a straight subjugation system.

    -Regarding your last point - is there room to add a new religion so that switching sides would cause civil unrest? Otherwise I think spawning pockets of Dwarf Rebels around Ered Luin homelands at the time of the ring could simulate the schism.

    Overall, I think this mod sounds fantastic. I don't have a lot of time to play test, but if I find time will try to play a Good ered luin campaign and see how it goes.

  15. #15

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    I remember Galu saying that their script would be like after you accept Mordor's proposal you then lose any alliances you had with the good nations except your dwarven brothers(initially) you only lose reputation with the dwarves. Then every 5-6 turns you would get a message narrating what's happening like you are extorting the hobbits causing you to lose reputation with Bree, ND, Lindon, Erebor and KD or you deny the Dunedain and the elves from entering your borders under threat of "facing the consequences" or denying your dwarven brothers pilgrimage to Belegost, etc. Which start to show everyone that there's something very wrong with you.

    Until Lindon finally declares war on you which would be a good reason to sack Lindon don't you think? You could also create a logical narrative to put the other dwarves at war with you.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    These are my opinions, as a old and strong advocate for Blue Dwarves filling the current role that Khand plays in the Southeast:

    -No recruitment of orcs/trolls/wargs for Blue Dwarves, that is a bridge to far.

    -Tie the descent into a) Isolation b) paranoia and finally c) aggression and war to the Three Rings.

    A) Sauron offers the first ring merely as a token of friendship and pledge of non intervention between this war between him and the elves/men. Effect breaks all alliances currently held, ends all wars currently underway, and gives a faction hit between the blue dwarves and the "good" nations of Eriador.

    B) Sauron sends one of his corrupted agents with the 2nd ring, a Dwarf Lord in his service (this can be that dwarf general dude you brought up). Dwarf lord can span with a army he is head of that MAY include some non-dwarf evil stuff. Dwarf Lord holding this second ring, his job is to slowly whisper poison into the Clan Leaders ear and get the population riled up against the nearby Elves and Humans and inflame long cold grudges form the past. He claims Sauron the Just supports them in this, it is only right that the Dwarves reclaim what is rightfully theirs and demand restitution from the Elves for their ancient crimes (when they use to hunt the petty-dwarves like animals, and the theft of the Necklace of the Dwarves, etc). More/stronger faction hits with the goods of Eriador.

    then

    C) Evil Dwarf lord temps the Clan Leader with the third ring if they stab the Elves/Breeland in the back. Maybe alliance with Angmar (But NOT orcs, thats a bridge to far for Dwarves). This choice to accept the third ring on condition of war with the elves/breeland and alliacne with Angmar will cause some rebellion for the Blue Dwarves.

    A human player can always choose to not advance past the first (or second) ring. Price will be paid when Sauron is pissed off which causes Evil Dwarf lord dude from 2nd ring to show up as a attacking rebel (if 2nd ring is refused) or cause rebellion as he trys to assassinate the clan lord and seize the throne if the third ring is refused. computer A.I. will always advanced the ring script and accept the rings if the first ring is accepted.

    I don't like the idea of allowing them to build boats. Just goes grossly against dwarf lore. Mercenary cogs are enough. Also I don't like the idea of allowing them to ever recruit elves, or orcs/trolls. Open up the mercenary human pools to them. They can get some Calvary via human mercs.

    The purpose of this script should basically just be to get a different dynamic in the NorthWest part of the map to match the dynamic Khand provides in the Southeast. Not to create a very radically different dwarf faction. Make the chances of Blue Dwarves going "evil" higher if the player is playing a non-evil faction, but still keep it somewhat random.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Lord of Links already made clear the general plan for recruitment, also Dwarves fighting alongside Orcs and Trolls is lore-freindly "Wicked Dwarves even made alliences with them" The Hobbit, refering to the Goblins of the Misty mountains; also it isn't a stretch of logic to enslave the two races especially since Trolls are easy to break being little more then beasts and orcs being cowardly by nature. So no they aren't being cut no matter how much you want them to be; Also I'd like to know if this will be compatable with other submods like the This is Total War submod; don't want to break my game by accident.
    Supreme Commander of the Galactic Federation, Emperor of the Virtupets Empire, Star King
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  18. #18

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    I also wonder if its possible if a good unit maker gets involved we could have a dwarf armored troll upgrade; the very thought of a cave troll clad in dwarven plate is something terrifying to think about
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  19. #19

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainblade View Post
    -Love the idea of the armor upgrade giving their mainline troops the black armor.

    -I think chaotic neutral works well for evil dwarves - not being super into mordor or worshiping sauron, they just see a political opportunity to expand their realm by taking out some stinky elves. I think some flavor messages popping up prior to the event regarding a rabblerouser gaining support for taking back rightful dwarven lands to the south could add some good background to the mod.

    -I am not convinced about Dwarves using trolls (maybe just the troll catapult? I could see an argument the dwarves see value in having trolls to push their siege equip around), and personally disagree about being able to recruit orcs. I think a gold reward from Mordor for capturing elven towns makes more sense - or a trade bonus if possible? Maybe unlock a farm upgrade and pop. bonus as men now come to tend the fertile elven lands and trade food to the dwarves?

    -The Mercenary route of recruiting greedy units sounds perfect instead of a straight subjugation system.

    -Regarding your last point - is there room to add a new religion so that switching sides would cause civil unrest? Otherwise I think spawning pockets of Dwarf Rebels around Ered Luin homelands at the time of the ring could simulate the schism.

    Overall, I think this mod sounds fantastic. I don't have a lot of time to play test, but if I find time will try to play a Good ered luin campaign and see how it goes.

    • Those 'rabblerouser' events already exist in this mod- prior to the choice, you will receive events describing how Grindfarn is gaining support and some dwarves, emboldened by his leadership, are raiding the shire, and are plotting to attack Lindon itself


    • I am not giving Ered Luin troll catapults- while I agree they make more sense from the perspective of the lore, they are very powerful. There have already been balance concerns over normal cave trolls- troll catapults are a catapult plus the trolls, so I feel they may be a bit unbalanced. However I may add them anyway, as I like the lore reason, but they would have very long replenishment rates (Think 50-60 turns)


    • There are no free religion slots. The only way I could change their religion would be to change them to Followers of Melkor, and I think that may be a bridge too far. If people find the script too easy, I will spawn a stack from Erebor with a message saying your own people have taken up arms against you, and now fight under the banner of Erebor.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goat rider View Post
    I remember Galu saying that their script would be like after you accept Mordor's proposal you then lose any alliances you had with the good nations except your dwarven brothers(initially) you only lose reputation with the dwarves. Then every 5-6 turns you would get a message narrating what's happening like you are extorting the hobbits causing you to lose reputation with Bree, ND, Lindon, Erebor and KD or you deny the Dunedain and the elves from entering your borders under threat of "facing the consequences" or denying your dwarven brothers pilgrimage to Belegost, etc. Which start to show everyone that there's something very wrong with you.

    Until Lindon finally declares war on you which would be a good reason to sack Lindon don't you think? You could also create a logical narrative to put the other dwarves at war with you.
    Those messages narrating the slow decline of the dwarves through greed now occur before the actual choice itself. When the messenger first shows up from Mordor, he flicks Grindfarn one of the dwarven rings, with the intent to use him to sow rebellion and dissent, and this is how those messages occur before the choice. They still exist, I just moved them before as I felt if you were playing the script for a second time, waiting for the effects to slowly trickle in could get tedious, and it would also make the script slightly more complex and open to exploitation or breakage, and I preferred a simpler script as there is less chance I will screw up writing it. I also like how in my version, the Free Peoples are threatening to declare war on you if you accept Mordor's offer- I think it makes the actual choice itself more tense and climatic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Multicolored View Post
    These are my opinions, as a old and strong advocate for Blue Dwarves filling the current role that Khand plays in the Southeast:

    -No recruitment of orcs/trolls/wargs for Blue Dwarves, that is a bridge to far.

    -Tie the descent into a) Isolation b) paranoia and finally c) aggression and war to the Three Rings.

    A) Sauron offers the first ring merely as a token of friendship and pledge of non intervention between this war between him and the elves/men. Effect breaks all alliances currently held, ends all wars currently underway, and gives a faction hit between the blue dwarves and the "good" nations of Eriador.

    B) Sauron sends one of his corrupted agents with the 2nd ring, a Dwarf Lord in his service (this can be that dwarf general dude you brought up). Dwarf lord can span with a army he is head of that MAY include some non-dwarf evil stuff. Dwarf Lord holding this second ring, his job is to slowly whisper poison into the Clan Leaders ear and get the population riled up against the nearby Elves and Humans and inflame long cold grudges form the past. He claims Sauron the Just supports them in this, it is only right that the Dwarves reclaim what is rightfully theirs and demand restitution from the Elves for their ancient crimes (when they use to hunt the petty-dwarves like animals, and the theft of the Necklace of the Dwarves, etc). More/stronger faction hits with the goods of Eriador.

    then

    C) Evil Dwarf lord temps the Clan Leader with the third ring if they stab the Elves/Breeland in the back. Maybe alliance with Angmar (But NOT orcs, thats a bridge to far for Dwarves). This choice to accept the third ring on condition of war with the elves/breeland and alliacne with Angmar will cause some rebellion for the Blue Dwarves.

    A human player can always choose to not advance past the first (or second) ring. Price will be paid when Sauron is pissed off which causes Evil Dwarf lord dude from 2nd ring to show up as a attacking rebel (if 2nd ring is refused) or cause rebellion as he trys to assassinate the clan lord and seize the throne if the third ring is refused. computer A.I. will always advanced the ring script and accept the rings if the first ring is accepted.

    I don't like the idea of allowing them to build boats. Just goes grossly against dwarf lore. Mercenary cogs are enough. Also I don't like the idea of allowing them to ever recruit elves, or orcs/trolls. Open up the mercenary human pools to them. They can get some Calvary via human mercs.

    The purpose of this script should basically just be to get a different dynamic in the NorthWest part of the map to match the dynamic Khand provides in the Southeast. Not to create a very radically different dwarf faction. Make the chances of Blue Dwarves going "evil" higher if the player is playing a non-evil faction, but still keep it somewhat random.

    • I appreciate how strongly you feel about this script, and I thank you for your feedback. Firstly, I am not changing the script to what you suggest- that would involve rewriting the whole thing, and I really don't feel like that, as it is a lot of work. Not only does it involve changing the script, it also involves rewriting events and creating new event pictures.


    • Recruiting trolls and orcs is fine by the lore. As Jedi7000Nathan stated below, the hobbit makes it quite clear that Wicked Dwarves were willing go as far to make alliances with them- keeping in mind, the scenario in which Ered Luin is recruit them is not even an alliance. It is either breaking the wills of trolls with the rings to use them as mindless slaves or paying goblins to do the dying in battles for them, and to serve as cannon fodder. The reason why you will only be able to recruit low tier rubbish orcs is that they are the only ones stupid or desperate enough to die for Ered Luin in exchange for a few coins. IF you obey Sauron's orders and take the elven capitals (And maintain an alliance with him) you will get small armies from various orc nations spawning to support you, in which case you are being fully wicked and are actually allying with them. It will boil down to Lindon (BN Inquistor and ships from Umbar), Imladris (Goblin army), Thranduil's Halls (Gundabad), Lothlorien (Dol Guldur), Caras Sant (Mordor)


    • Ered Luin will get boats, no matter which route, for the purpose of gameplay. Ered Luin is quite dull in vanilla DaC as they are a costal nation with no ships, which means they always have to go east. They are getting boats so that if this is your 3rd or 4th Ered Luin campaign, you have the freedom to go down south as well and do something different. I do acknowledge there are lore issues with this, but this is a game, so gameplay has to trump lore. Besides, Gimili was willing to sail aboard a corsair ship to Minas Tirth and sailed to Valinor, so there is some precedent, and I do acknowledge this lore issue in the events, justifying this decision by mentioning that is this submod, due to living by the coast, the dwarves of Ered Luin are more used to ships and are willing to sail as long as there is a battle at the end.


    • This script, will not make Ered Luin into a 'a very radically different dwarf faction' (Although one could argue, this would be a good thing as it makes there more unique)- all it will do is make their roster a bit more interesting through AOR units, which I think is a good thing, as come V4, Ered Luin will likely have the smallest roster in the game, considering Lindon won't exist anymore as a faction in its own right. Making it interesting is why Evil Ered Luin will get trolls and the subjugation mechanic and Good Ered Luin gets Lindon stuff.


    • I do like the idea of opening up the human mercs to an Evil Ered Luin and will adopt this idea. Thank you.



    Quote Originally Posted by jedi7000nathan View Post
    Lord of Links already made clear the general plan for recruitment, also Dwarves fighting alongside Orcs and Trolls is lore-freindly "Wicked Dwarves even made alliences with them" The Hobbit, refering to the Goblins of the Misty mountains; also it isn't a stretch of logic to enslave the two races especially since Trolls are easy to break being little more then beasts and orcs being cowardly by nature. So no they aren't being cut no matter how much you want them to be; Also I'd like to know if this will be compatable with other submods like the This is Total War submod; don't want to break my game by accident.

    • What is the This is Total War submod?



    Quote Originally Posted by jedi7000nathan View Post
    I also wonder if its possible if a good unit maker gets involved we could have a dwarf armored troll upgrade; the very thought of a cave troll clad in dwarven plate is something terrifying to think about

    • I hope that happens someday.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: [OPEN BETA- DAC 3.0] Ered Luin- Dwarven Rings Choice Submod

    Well I'm glad you are working on it. I look forward to the version that works with the AI because it will add spice to the game that is needed by advanced players.

    Regarding orc recruitment, like the human solution, why not just allow evil dwarf path to trigger the opening of orc merc pools? You said its about desperate "mercenary" orcs fighting for gold after all. This will keep the human and orc element in erud lun armies strictly limited and mercenary in nature, besides the spawned triggered armies Sauron sends to help the dwarves with.

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