Local rulers \ Governors

[Spartan 666]

Hi all.

I am a little confused about how to govern my new Baktrian Kingdom, this is the first campaign I take with hellenistic factions.

Unlike I think everyone, I declared war and conquered independence from the Seleucids quite late, around turn 170. That's because after subduing the nomads in the north (A. Eschates and Chach) and conquering Kapisha, I was dragged in a long war against Takashila. They attacked me from Arachosia without reason, repeatedly refused peace even after being beaten back and used force diplomacy for peace (they attacked me again a couple of turns later). I don't know why they engaged me instead of conquering the Indus valley, but anyway I decided to completely annihilate them, conquering all of India. This of course took a lot of time to achieve, and to stabilize the region. I did not want to fight a war on two fronts so I postponed my independence plans for at least 100 turns.

Of course I had to build Allied State buildings and recruiting local governors to keep public order at an acceptable level and to recruit garrison units. But now that I can build my factional governing buildings, both Native and Royal administrations, I find those local governors to be harmful. As soon as the buildings were ready, almost all of them got the Interloper trait, making once quiet regions quite troublesome now. I built Native Administration in most regions, with the precise purpose not to cause riots.

I understand that this might be supposed to represent hostility against a regime change, but now how am I supposed to govern my kingdom? Only with family members or upper tier administration buildings will make another kind of local rulers available? And I imagine that using family members for distant regions will also make them become interlopers anyway. Where is it convenient to build Allied States and leave more authonomy and less development options, and where to bring the region under direct control and government?

Right now I am planning to group up all my local rulers and use them as cannon fodder or bandit hunters, they can't be used again as governors because they will only cause riots.

[Lusitanio]

You are misunderstanding some of the aspects of the game. The allied government which allows you to recruit an allied Governor will give interloper traits to your FMs if they are inside the settlements. You will need to destroy that government building and build a factional one for your FMs.
Using family members for distant regions will not make them interlopers unless the settlement has an allied government. Your local rulers will cause riots in cities that do not have an allied government, that's why you should either use them only for your allied cities or for battles

[Dargaron]

Recruitable Client Rulers are *only* for the Allied/Closely Allied Oligarchy/Democracy governments. Those are allied governments that are common to ALL factions and give the Interloper trait to regular family members who try to govern those regions. All other government types (even "Native Administration") are "Factional Governments," which means that the recruitable Client Rulers are NOT supposed to be governing those settlements. Those are for your regular Family Members.

The Allied Governments are a separate tree in the Building Menu. Those are the ONLY settlements that Client Rulers can rule.

[Spartan 666]

You are misunderstanding some of the aspects of the game. The allied government which allows you to recruit an allied Governor will give interloper traits to your FMs if they are inside the settlements. You will need to destroy that government building and build a factional one for your FMs.
Using family members for distant regions will not make them interlopers unless the settlement has an allied government. Your local rulers will cause riots in cities that do not have an allied government, that's why you should either use them only for your allied cities or for battles

Ok, now it is more clear. FMs for directly governed regions and local rulers for Allied States. Mixing the two creates interlopers.

Recruitable Client Rulers are *only* for the Allied/Closely Allied Oligarchy/Democracy governments. Those are allied governments that are common to ALL factions and give the Interloper trait to regular family members who try to govern those regions. All other government types (even "Native Administration") are "Factional Governments," which means that the recruitable Client Rulers are NOT supposed to be governing those settlements. Those are for your regular Family Members.

The Allied Governments are a separate tree in the Building Menu. Those are the ONLY settlements that Client Rulers can rule.

Thanks for the explanation. So how am I supposed to decide which one of the two building trees to build? Regions such as Bukhara o Chach can only build Military Conquest and not higher levels, so for those regions is it convenient to build Allied States?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Be aware though: many players think (and I do share this opinion) that the client rulers add to the problem of the family tree management in the EBII. Since the game engine counts them as family members, and the birth rates in family tree are impacted by the number of settlements, the problem is that in many cases: family + client rulers > number of settlements. In this situation the engine stops giving you children or spouses (although there're diverse views, more discussion in this thread.

[Spartan 666]

How can I get rid of those generals? The kill_character console command does not work. I will try to embark them on a ship and send them against pirates or think about something...

Anyway I am starting to understand how the factional goverment works. Direct control brings uprest but in the long term it allows more development options, native control brings public order bonuses in the short term, but less development in the long term. It took a while to understand ��

[Dargaron]

How can I get rid of those generals? The kill_character console command does not work. I will try to embark them on a ship and send them against pirates or think about something...

Anyway I am starting to understand how the factional goverment works. Direct control brings uprest but in the long term it allows more development options, native control brings public order bonuses in the short term, but less development in the long term. It took a while to understand ��

Unfortunately, you've got to kill the client rulers the old-fashioned way. Usually, I leave a Client Ruler in charge of a city until he dies, then swap in a factional govt (since you have to demolish then rebuild the Allied Government in order to get a new Client Ruler anyway). That is, unless I'm leaving a city as an Allied State long-term in order to access Allied-State-Only troops.

Direct Factional Governments and Native Control also affect recruitment. Some provinces have very limited Factional recruitment pools (for instance, if you ever play Makedonia, the recruitment pools for Hellenistic Settler Colonies/Poleis are REALLY poor in places like Tylis. If you want any semi-decent soldiers, you'll want Native Government/Native Colonies.)

[Spartan 666]

Unfortunately, you've got to kill the client rulers the old-fashioned way. Usually, I leave a Client Ruler in charge of a city until he dies, then swap in a factional govt (since you have to demolish then rebuild the Allied Government in order to get a new Client Ruler anyway). That is, unless I'm leaving a city as an Allied State long-term in order to access Allied-State-Only troops.

Direct Factional Governments and Native Control also affect recruitment. Some provinces have very limited Factional recruitment pools (for instance, if you ever play Makedonia, the recruitment pools for Hellenistic Settler Colonies/Poleis are REALLY poor in places like Tylis. If you want any semi-decent soldiers, you'll want Native Government/Native Colonies.)

With Baktria, this happens in Chach and Bukhara. They are the only places where I have allied states because I cannot build anything higher than Military Conquest, thus not having access to any kind of units.

[QuintusSertorius]

With Baktria, this happens in Chach and Bukhara. They are the only places where I have allied states because I cannot build anything higher than Military Conquest, thus not having access to any kind of units.

With Baktria, you can't build anything higher than Military Conquest outside the immediate region until after you are independent.

[Spartan 666]

With Baktria, you can't build anything higher than Military Conquest outside the immediate region until after you are independent.

I have been independent for some years but still can't build anything higher than Military conquest in neither Chach or Bukhara.

[QuintusSertorius]

I have been independent for some years but still can't build anything higher than Military conquest in neither Chach or Bukhara.

That's intentional, every faction has a regional "sphere of influence" where they can build their factional governments. For Baktria it is this:

and hidden_resource eastern or hidden_resource baktria or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource ioudaioi

Their region is Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and India.

[Spartan 666]

That's intentional, every faction has a regional "sphere of influence" where they can build their factional governments. For Baktria it is this:

and hidden_resource eastern or hidden_resource baktria or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource ioudaioi

Their region is Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and India.

Quite odd that they can build factional governments in Syria and not in the Massagetae\Scythian area

On a side note, I noticed that the overall situation in that campaign remained the same until around 240-230 BC. The only major changes were my destruction of Takshila and the KH destruction of Epeiros (which resurrected in Thrace), defeat of Makedon (pushed into Illyria), and Carthage conquering all of Sicily. Barbarian factions progressed very little. Saba conquered south arabia, Ptolemaioi got Ehiopia and waged war against the Seleukids losing and getting settlements but not changing much. Rome has a lot of armies but seems unable to break through north italy, and so has Bosphorus, which can't conquer Crimea. Hayasdan and Pontus conquered a single city in about 30-40 years.

All of a sudden, all factions "woke up". Hayasdan conquered half of caucasus and Media, Rome all north of Italy, Bosphorus the norther black sea, and so on. Like the AI was kind of frozen.

I recently started a Saba test-campaign and a Pergamon campaign, and the AI seems much more active and aggressive since the start.

[QuintusSertorius]

Those are nomadic regions; it's not just about proximity, but the underlying cultures. By contrast, taking over the mantle of the grafted-on Makedonian elite in the former Persian empire isn't so difficult.

Each campaign is different in terms of AI activity, one of the things we worked hard in the run-up to 2.3 was to make things less predictable.

[Spartan 666]

Those are nomadic regions; it's not just about proximity, but the underlying cultures. By contrast, taking over the mantle of the grafted-on Makedonian elite in the former Persian empire isn't so difficult.

Each campaign is different in terms of AI activity, one of the things we worked hard in the run-up to 2.3 was to make things less predictable.

I was joking What do you mean taking over the Makedonian elites?

You guys did an amazing job! Right now, Rome has landed in Epeiros and started making its way up towards Illyria, never seen before!