To my surprise, I just learn today a Jew can discriminate another Jew racially in Israel

[sumskilz]

The funny thing is that its quite possible that Ethiopian Jews having more DNA connections with ancient Israelites than the people who emigrate to Israel today

It's not possible in the slightest. The relationships between Jewish diaspora groups and ancient Levantine populations are well established.

[Altzek]

If Israel wouldn't have wanted Ethiopians, it wouldn't have organized free airlifts to get them out of the hellhole that's Ethiopia.


Everything else's just ideology.

[Papay]

It's not possible in the slightest. The relationships between Jewish diaspora groups and ancient Levantine populations are well established.

Judaism is a religion not a race. Its like saying that all christians are related to the 12 apostles. Its stupid. This is why Ethiopian Jews feel marginilised. In a nation where all white Jew immigrants learn that they are genetically related, black jews debunk that idea. So, for the white jews that believe this lie, black Jews cannot be part of the family

[sumskilz]

Judaism is a religion not a race. Its like saying that all christians are related to the 12 apostles. Its stupid. This is why Ethiopian Jews feel marginilised. In a nation where all white Jew immigrants learn that they are genetically related, black jews debunk that idea. So, for the white jews that believe this lie, black Jews cannot be part of the family

Jews are an ethno-religious group. Jewishness is defined primarily by descent religiously. Judaism evolved out of the state religion of the Kingdom of Judah. The idea that Judaism is only a religion was invented by some European Jews in Eighteenth Century for the purpose of assimilation. It was never widely accepted, and certainly never accepted by non-European Jews. The vast majority of Jews consider Jewish identity to be partly ethnic. All Jewish groups claim descent from the ancient Jews of the Levant, the Ethiopian Jews are no exception. This belief has been corroborated by genetic evidence for most Jewish groups. The Ethiopian Jews probably have a small portion of ancestry from the ancient Jews as well, but it's small enough that it's hard to detect with certainty against a broader Semitic Northeast African background.

You purporting to speak for the Ethiopian Jews is ridiculous. They didn't debunk anything, and they fully embrace the concept of Jewishness by descent. They claim to be descended from the Tribe of Dan and/or Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. Although, a more historically credible hypothesis is that they are descended from a small population of Yemeni Jews and local Ethiopian converts.

Judaism isn't functionally the same as Christianity in this regard. Your analogy is stupid and your claims are ignorant. Why make confident proclamations about a topic you literally know next to nothing about?

[Papay]

Jews are an ethno-religious group. Jewishness is defined primarily by descent religiously. Judaism evolved out of the state religion of the Kingdom of Judah. The idea that Judaism is only a religion was invented by some European Jews in Eighteenth Century for the purpose of assimilation. It was never widely accepted, and certainly never accepted by non-European Jews. The vast majority of Jews consider Jewish identity to be partly ethnic. All Jewish groups claim descent from the ancient Jews of the Levant, the Ethiopian Jews are no exception. This belief has been corroborated by genetic evidence for most Jewish groups. The Ethiopian Jews probably have a small portion of ancestry from the ancient Jews as well, but it's small enough that it's hard to detect with certainty against a broader Semitic Northeast African background.

You purporting to speak for the Ethiopian Jews is ridiculous. They didn't debunk anything, and they fully embrace the concept of Jewishness by descent. They claim to be descended from the Tribe of Dan and/or Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. Although, a more historically credible hypothesis is that they are descended from a small population of Yemeni Jews and local Ethiopian converts.

Judaism isn't functionally the same as Christianity in this regard. Your analogy is stupid and your claims are ignorant. Why make confident proclamations about a topic you literally know next to nothing about?

Nice bait but i wont bite it. You perpetuate the myth that Israel promotes in order to legalize Jewish immigration in Palestine. Any Jew(even a convert)can apply for the "right of return" based on this pseudo-analysis. Fact is that today only a small fraction of Jews could be related from those ancient jews. Irrelevant anyway since what your ancestors did 2000 years ago Shouldnt be the basis of todays politics.

[sumskilz]

Nice bait but i wont bite it. You perpetuate the myth that Israel promotes in order to legalize Jewish immigration in Palestine. Any Jew(even a convert)can apply for the "right of return" based on this pseudo-analysis. Fact is that today only a small fraction of Jews could be related from those ancient jews.

No, I'm summarizing the overwhelming scientific consensus on the issue (see post #18). What you state to be fact is simply willful ignorance on your part.

[Papay]

No, I'm summarizing the overwhelming scientific consensus on the issue (see post #18). What you state to be fact is simply willful ignorance on your part.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonenti...-sympathizers/

Even Israeli scientists disagree, but of course this is used for political reasons. Israel wants to "legalize" Jew immigration to Palestine by claiming that all jews somehow are linked genetically. So if you are a blue-eyed Jew like, for example Mark Zuckerberg, then your ancestors of course come from middle east. This means you have the "right" to immigrate to west bank and steal Arab lands. If now you are an Arab that was kicked out from Palestinian lands a couple of generations ago, of course Israel doesnt recognize your right to return. Kinda double standards dont you think?

[Infidel144]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonenti...-sympathizers/

Even Israeli scientists disagree, but of course this is used for political reasons.

I think you mean 'an Israel scientist'. The article you linked says of:
"in this case, an Israeli molecular geneticist whose motivations appear more personal and ideological than scientific" and that the scientist's study "is accompanied by his personal attacks on more mainstream scientists who have eviscerated his work" and that he "is recirculating the debunked “Khazarian hypothesis” promoted by journalist Arthur Koestler in his 1976 book, The Thirteenth Tribe, written before scientists had the tools to compare genomes and challenge his conclusion."

What brilliant evidence Papay...

[sumskilz]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonenti...-sympathizers/

Even Israeli scientists disagree, but of course this is used for political reasons.

Yes Elhaik, that's the one fool that I already wrote about in post #18. The one who claims Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars because of their similarity to Armenians, who co-wrote with the guy who claims Yiddish is a Slavic language. His ideas were quickly debunked in two peer-reviewed papers I already linked in post #18, and subsequently ignored as nonsense by the mainstream scientific consensus, a consensus which has been, and continues to be, collectively established by the leading research teams in the field, the vast majority of whom have no relationship to Israel.

[Altzek]

Last time I checked the Armenians were not a Turkic people from the Pontic Steppe (what the Khazars were), but a Caucasian people that, as a matter of fact, has a strong affinity to Assyrians, Anatolian Turks (largely turkicised Anatolians), Kurds and Levantines, who are basically born through the cross of Caucasian and Peninsular Arab elements.


That Israelis, who are already closely related to Levantine Arabs, are related to Armenians, is pretty normal and to be expected, not a proof that they're Khazars.

[athanaric]

Yes, and let's be honest, many Israelis (especially Mizrahi Jews) are visually indistinguishable from "Palestinian" Arabs, Lebanese, or other neighbouring peoples.

If Israel wouldn't have wanted Ethiopians, it wouldn't have organized free airlifts to get them out of the hellhole that was Ethiopia.

Fixed. Ethiopia is relatively proserous today. Back then, I suppose they feared a genocide of Ethiopian Jews.

[Altzek]

Fixed. Ethiopia is relatively proserous today. Back then, I suppose they feared a genocide of Ethiopian Jews.

I mean it doesn't have a murderous military regime in charge and it isn't fighting a civil war, but there's still active insurgencies and an unsustainable population growth while the country starves to death. You can make the case it's experiencing some degree of economic growth but that's happening all over the continent and the dividend is still not in favor of the largest majority of people.
It's really not doing well. Not as bad as in the '80s but the sit is really still abysmal.

[Papay]

I think you mean 'an Israel scientist'. The article you linked says of:
"in this case, an Israeli molecular geneticist whose motivations appear more personal and ideological than scientific" and that the scientist's study "is accompanied by his personal attacks on more mainstream scientists who have eviscerated his work" and that he "is recirculating the debunked “Khazarian hypothesis” promoted by journalist Arthur Koestler in his 1976 book, The Thirteenth Tribe, written before scientists had the tools to compare genomes and challenge his conclusion."

What brilliant evidence Papay...

You cannot measure "jewish DNA". What that even means? Can you expain it to me? I understand white DNA or black DNA but Jewish DNA? I guess you promote the idea that Jews are gods chosen people and this is proved by their DNA? Sorry i am dumb and i dont get it

[sumskilz]

You cannot measure "jewish DNA". What that even means? Can you expain it to me? I understand white DNA or black DNA but Jewish DNA? I guess you promote the idea that Jews are gods chosen people and this is proved by their DNA? Sorry i am dumb and i dont get it

What can be measured is common ancestry back to a relatively small population of individuals who lived in the Levant during the Iron Age. This ancestry constitutes about 50% of the genome of the average Polish or Irish Jew (to use your example). Whereas the average ethnically Polish or Irish person doesn't have any of this ancestry. Although it's not uncommon for a Polish or Irish person to have a very small percentage of this ancestry, say 1 or 2%, indicating they have some Jewish ancestors within the last several hundred years who presumably converted to Christianity. Most Jewish diaspora populations have about 50% ancestry from the original Levantine Jewish population, although it's higher in Iraqi Jews. This is because most diaspora populations were founded mostly by Jewish males and local women, whereas the Iraqi Jewish population was established by forcibly relocated populations from Israel and Judah during the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian periods.

In addition, the non-Levantine ancestry of a Polish or Irish Jew is rarely more than a couple percentage points Northern European, it is usually close to 50% Southern European (so unlikely to be from ethnically Polish or Irish people). This is not surprising because uniparental markers indicate that all European Jews are descended from a very small number of individuals. The male lineages are for the most part identical to the male lineages of other Jewish diaspora groups. This can be traced accurately because the Y-chromosome is passed down from father to son usually unchanged. The occasional mutation is rare enough that giant family trees can be constructed going back thousands of years. The same is true for mitochondrial DNA passed from mother to child usually unchanged. So we know for example, that 60% of Ashkenazi Jews are the direct maternal descendants of just four women. We know that the majority of all Jewish Kohenim males in almost all diaspora groups descend from just a few men who lived about 3,000 years ago.

Counter to your unsupported assertion earlier that a Polish and Irish Jew have nothing in common except being white, they in fact have so much in common that they are at least as similar to each other as an Irish person is to his/her Irish fourth cousin and at least similar to each other as a Polish person is to his/her fourth cousin. This is because only about 350 individuals have contributed to the Ashkenazi gene pool. When Ashkenazi Jews get their DNA tested by commercial testing companies, these companies literally identify every other Ashkenazi Jew in their database as a close relative. This is because such systems are calibrated for typical customers rather than those from traditionally endogamous enthoreligious groups.

[Papay]

What can be measured is common ancestry back to a relatively small population of individuals who lived in the Levant during the Iron Age. This ancestry constitutes about 50% of the genome of the average Polish or Irish Jew (to use your example). Whereas the average ethnically Polish or Irish person doesn't have any of this ancestry. Although it's not uncommon for a Polish or Irish person to have a very small percentage of this ancestry, say 1 or 2%, indicating they have some Jewish ancestors within the last several hundred years who presumably converted to Christianity. Most Jewish diaspora populations have about 50% ancestry from the original Levantine Jewish population, although it's higher in Iraqi Jews. This is because most diaspora populations were founded mostly by Jewish males and local women, whereas the Iraqi Jewish population was established by forcibly relocated populations from Israel and Judah during the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian periods.

In addition, the non-Levantine ancestry of a Polish or Irish Jew is rarely more than a couple percentage points Northern European, it is usually close to 50% Southern European (so unlikely to be from ethnically Polish or Irish people). This is not surprising because uniparental markers indicate that all European Jews are descended from a very small number of individuals. The male lineages are for the most part identical to the male lineages of other Jewish diaspora groups. This can be traced accurately because the Y-chromosome is passed down from father to son usually unchanged. The occasional mutation is rare enough that giant family trees can be constructed going back thousands of years. The same is true for mitochondrial DNA passed from mother to child usually unchanged. So we know for example, that 60% of Ashkenazi Jews are the direct maternal descendants of just four women. We know that the majority of all Jewish Kohenim males in almost all diaspora groups descend from just a few men who lived about 3,000 years ago.

Counter to your unsupported assertion earlier that a Polish and Irish Jew have nothing in common except being white, they in fact have so much in common that they are at least as similar to each other as an Irish person is to his/her Irish fourth cousin and at least similar to each other as a Polish person is to his/her fourth cousin. This is because only about 350 individuals have contributed to the Ashkenazi gene pool. When Ashkenazi Jews get their DNA tested by commercial testing companies, these companies literally identify every other Ashkenazi Jew in their database as a close relative. This is because such systems are calibrated for typical customers rather than those from traditionally endogamous enthoreligious groups.

A nice myth that is promoted to justify immigration to Palestine. Israel is a colonial state that was built from white immigrants just like colonial Algeria or racist South Africa. The difference is that Israel has created a series of myths to somehow justify policies similar to the examples of the states i mentioned before. One of these myths is that all jews are connected and have almost divine right to immigrate in palestine. A mixture of religious and scientific DNA chauvinism. Once you have "Jewish DNA"(whatever that means)then you are gods chosen people and have divine right to travel in palestine and steal Arab lands

Historically speaking, judaism is a religion and just like all other religions it had many converts and many people who left Judaism. There were countless denominations and some of them even established Christianity. "Judaism" cannot be measured more or less than "Hinduism" or "Taoism".

[athanaric]

A nice myth that is promoted to justify immigration to Palestine. Israel is a colonial state that was built from white immigrants just like colonial Algeria or racist South Africa. The difference is that Israel has created a series of myths to somehow justify policies similar to the examples of the states i mentioned before. One of these myths is that all jews are connected and have almost divine right to immigrate in palestine. A mixture of religious and scientific DNA chauvinism. Once you have "Jewish DNA"(whatever that means)then you are gods chosen people and have divine right to travel in palestine and steal Arab lands

Historically speaking, judaism is a religion and just like all other religions it had many converts and many people who left Judaism. There were countless denominations and some of them even established Christianity. "Judaism" cannot be measured more or less than "Hinduism" or "Taoism".

When you're done with science denial, perhaps you can point us to the exact line where he implied that Jews were "God's chosen people". I swear, reading your posts feels like losing brain cells.

Once you have "Jewish DNA"(whatever that means)

It means that you can trace Jewish DNA, as explained above. Just like you can trace Eskimo DNA, or Persian DNA. Speaking of Persians, did you know they also have their own ethno-religion? Are you now going to claim that the Persian ethnicity is just a lie to promote Zoroastrianism?

[Altzek]

A nice myth that is promoted to justify immigration to Palestine. Israel is a colonial state that was built from white immigrants just like colonial Algeria or racist South Africa. The difference is that Israel has created a series of myths to somehow justify policies similar to the examples of the states i mentioned before. One of these myths is that all jews are connected and have almost divine right to immigrate in palestine. A mixture of religious and scientific DNA chauvinism. Once you have "Jewish DNA"(whatever that means)then you are gods chosen people and have divine right to travel in palestine and steal Arab lands

Historically speaking, judaism is a religion and just like all other religions it had many converts and many people who left Judaism. There were countless denominations and some of them even established Christianity. "Judaism" cannot be measured more or less than "Hinduism" or "Taoism".

Why aren't you even bothering to answer his point? You're just repeating your point over and over ignoring arguments and the evidence he's bringing.

[paleologos]

Well, it's not the first time for me to hear that Ashkenazi Jews think they are better than Mizrahi and Sephardim, maybe they are (somewhat more intelligent).
The problem begins when you want more bodies to serve in the military but you fail to provide equal treatment by the agencies of government.
On the other hand, Ethiopian Jews might consider themselves lucky they are not being treated like Palestinians.

[Altzek]

Well, it's not the first time for me to hear that Askenazi Jews think they are better than Mizrahi and Sephardim, maybe they are (somewhat more intelligent).
The problem begins when you want more bodies to serve in the military but you fail to provide equal treatment by the agencies of government.
On the other hand, Ethiopian Jews might consider themselves lucky they are not being treated like Palestinians.

Did you read the OP? The cop was literally stoned by Ethiopians as he tried to stop a fight between two gangs, and there's no mention anywhere of prejudice towards Sephardim or Mizrahim (Ethiopians are neither, by the way) to have prompted the incident.
This is ridiculous, people are just projecting on Israel stuff that happens in the US.

[Papay]

It means that you can trace Jewish DNA, as explained above. Just like you can trace Eskimo DNA, or Persian DNA. Speaking of Persians, did you know they also have their own ethno-religion? Are you now going to claim that the Persian ethnicity is just a lie to promote Zoroastrianism?

Escimo is a race. Persian is a race. Judaism is not. The fact that Ivanka Trump married a Jew, doesnt make her a descendant of ancient Israelites.