Portland: Journalist injured during riot between Antifa and Proud Boys.

[Infidel144]

And who told the Clark County people that the Proud Boys were extremeists?

Not the FBI which I can and did quote as saying "That’s not what we do".

The Clark Country sherrif didn't come up with this announcement on their.
And your articles clearly states the FBI did not intend to label them as extremeists.

Like, maybe, the Clark Counter Sheriff misunderstood or mis-interpreted what was said. Which I already said.

Hmmm, I had asked:
"Can you quote the FBI directly labeling them as such?"

Your lack of response would indicate that the answer is a 'no'.

It already changed. BWB agreed to my bet. Do you want me to quote his reply for you?

Do you mean this?:
"We need a time limit - one week from the June 29th"

'Cause unless you two have agreed to a time limit, there is no bet.

Now back to the bet BWB has attempted to make with you:
To quote you:
"Too afraid to lose the bet?"

[Aexodus]

This dumbass bet is taking away from the topic at hand, I don’t think people want to read this guys.

[Basil II the B.S]

We already disccused Maajid above and the SPLC apologized anyways. Ben Carson is a person,not a group. Which other groups did they claim were extremeists but were not?

How many examples do you want?

[Heathen Hammer]

Their violent behavior is well known as well as their ideology. The FBI labeled them as an extremeist group for having ties to white nationalism.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...onalism-report

What is white nationalism? Seems like "racism" it turned into yet another buzzword.

What extremeist ideology is the SPLC?

Hatred towards a specific ethnic group sounds like extremism to me.

[Basil II the B.S]

liberal hypocrisy, typical antifa tactic

They demand the right to censor anything they disagree with as ''hate speech'' but at the same time they also want the right to call for murder of political adversaries, which ironically is one of the few things that's not covered by free speech. This is exactly why conservatives must protect gun rights at all costs. If those go, then liberals are going to rewrite speech laws in a way that allows them to call for murder but also silences everyone else. Prepare for war, the liberals are coming.

[PointOfViewGun]

liberal hypocrisy, typical antifa tactic

They demand the right to censor anything they disagree with as ''hate speech'' but at the same time they also want the right to call for murder of political adversaries, which ironically is one of the few things that's not covered by free speech. This is exactly why conservatives must protect gun rights at all costs. If those go, then liberals are going to rewrite speech laws in a way that allows them to call for murder but also silences everyone else. Prepare for war, the liberals are coming.

Nope. Not a single sentence you uttered was correct. When does such a tactic of making stuff up ever becomes effective?

[TheLeft]

Nope. Not a single sentence you uttered was correct. When does such a tactic of making stuff up ever becomes effective?

Post-truth politics mate. Things like facts and the truth don't matter so much as the message itself. It's the reason why people like Trump, BoJo and Farage are so dangerous, they influence people like Basil into parroting their nonsense without any fact checking.

[Basil II the B.S]

Lmao, we need the Ministry of Truth by libs to tell us what's true or not because we can't tell ourself. Orwellian as usual.

[Katsumoto]

I don't think Orwellian means what you think it means.

[Vanoi]

Not the FBI which I can and did quote as saying "That’s not what we do".


Like, maybe, the Clark Counter Sheriff misunderstood or mis-interpreted what was said. Which I already said.

Hmmm, I had asked:
"Can you quote the FBI directly labeling them as such?"

Your lack of response would indicate that the answer is a 'no'.

Your nit-picking quotes. The FBI said directly in your article that they did not intend to label the Proud Boys as extremeists. Clark County can't misinterpret something without the FBI causing that.

Do you mean this?:
"We need a time limit - one week from the June 29th"

'Cause unless you two have agreed to a time limit, there is no bet.

Now back to the bet BWB has attempted to make with you:
To quote you:
"Too afraid to lose the bet?"

Yep and thats why i replied to BWB to change the time.

The original bet was changed. Not scared at all but considering those three arrested still haven't been identified by which group they belong to the bet can't be won or lost. Useless to take it.

What is white nationalism? Seems like "racism" it turned into yet another buzzword.

A well-known ideology.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism

You gotta be desperate to really call it a buzzword.

Hatred towards a specific ethnic group sounds like extremism to me.

Which ethnic group does the SPLC hate?

How many examples do you want?

From you? Any at this point.

[The spartan]

Lmao, we need the Ministry of Truth by libs to tell us what's true or not because we can't tell ourself. Orwellian as usual.

You know what a "Court" is, right?

[Heathen Hammer]

A well-known ideology.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism

You gotta be desperate to really call it a buzzword.

Because the definition is so vague the term can mean absolutely anything.

White nationalism is a type of nationalism or pan-nationalism which espouses the belief that white people are a race^[1

Heck, it even implies that thinking that white people are a race is being such, which means that people who believe that "white privilege" is a thing are technically white supremacists at the same time. Also still waiting for evidence that Proud Boys hate anyone.

Which ethnic group does the SPLC hate?

I'd presume the group its leadership counting and celebrating decrease of. I mean any group that states that its a good thing that there is less of X ethnic group is kinda hateful, be it KKK or SPLC. Just two sides of the same coin.

Post-truth politics mate. Things like facts and the truth don't matter so much as the message itself. It's the reason why people like Trump, BoJo and Farage are so dangerous, they influence people like Basil into parroting their nonsense without any fact checking.

Except that you guys present 0 evidence that there are any "facts and truths" behind your self-contradicting Orwellian ideology, factual disapproval of which you claim is "dangerous" also without any evidence.
Which explains why the left seeks to shut down any opposition and discussion, because you are systematically unable to engage the opposition to your ideas in a coherent debate.

[Infidel144]

Your nit-picking quotes. The FBI said directly in your article that they did not intend to label the Proud Boys as extremeists. Clark County can't misinterpret something without the FBI causing that.

No. As I noted when you said previously claimed the FBI said "intend" with the quote marks:
The article says "The FBI never intended to do so".FBI:
“I can see where Clark County representatives came to that conclusion. That was not our intention. That’s not what we do, Cannon said’"
Meaning the FBI did not label them as as such. The CC representatives mis-understood.

Hmm...
FBI to CC reps: 'Proud Boys have extremists in who are associated with white nationalists.'
CC reps: 'Talked to FBI. Proud Boys are extremist white nationalists'
FBI: 'I can see how you concluded that, but that was not our intention, when we said there are extremists among them. We don't do that.'

Not scared at all but considering those three arrested still haven't been identified by which group they belong to the bet can't be won or lost. Useless to take it.

Was it useless to take it when it was first offered?

[Aexodus]

I don’t even know what the discussion here is anymore. The proud boys? Maybe they’re dicks, maybe they’re okay, but Andy Ngo isn’t among them. As in he is not a member.

Basil if you keep calling literal anarachist communists ‘liberals’ I swear I’ll go neurotic.

The thing that gets me about this story is so called anti fascists fighting what they call ‘hate’ with violence. I think we all need to think about whether it’s okay to punch Nazis, real ones or otherwise.

Antifa did not have a permit. It was an illegal protest using public roads blocking the public from their right to their day-to-day life.

Opposing hate does not make you right. One thing I’ve seen is CNN, who through Cuomo and Don Lemon had previously seemed to be apologist for Antifa, CNN is now acknowledging Antifa as a bad group, at least it seems that way.

CNN's Cuomo defends Antifa: Those who oppose hate 'are on the side of right'

CNN anchor Chris Cuomo said late Monday that Antifa should not be equated with white supremacists, arguing that "in a clash between hate and those who oppose it, those who oppose it are on the side of right" even if they resort to "petty violence."

"You attack cops, you slap the media, you are in the wrong, period," Cuomo said in a commentary on "Cuomo Prime Time." "But I argue to you tonight all punches are not equal, morally."

"In the eyes of the law, yes. But in the eyes of good and evil, here’s the argument: If you’re a punk who comes to start trouble in a mask and hurt people, you’re not about any virtuous cause," he continued. "You’re just somebody that’s going to be held to the standard of doing something wrong."

"But when someone comes to call out bigots and it gets hot, even physical, are they equally wrong as the bigot they’re fighting? I argue no. ... Fighting matters, too, there’s no question about that. But drawing a moral equivalency between those espousing hate and those fighting it, because they both resort to violence emboldens hate, legitimizes hateful belief and elevates what should be stamped out."

Cuomo once compared anti-fascist members to allied troops who stormed the beaches of Normandy on D-Day to fight Nazi soldiers in World War II in a tweet in August 2017:

Yet again we have the idea that ‘hate’ is something that should be either illegal or opposed violently. I don’t think it’s out of the question for me to say that Chris Cuomo supports Antifa.

Don Lemon Defends Antifa: "No Organization Is Perfect"

Andy Ngo:

While chanting “no hate,” antifa militants pummeled my head. No police intervened. Portland prides itself on being a sanctuary city but what I see is a sanctuary for domestic terrorists. I describe the antifa attack that left me with a brain hemorrhage:

What I find disgusting is people on this very thread and elsewhere trying to say a WSJ and Quillette writer is not a journalist. That’s ‘post-truth’ if I’ve ever seen it. And the people saying he provoked antifa by doxxing them? Even if that’s true, the idea that it’s justifiable to assault journalists for doxxing is extremely grave and scary for the future of journalism. If journalists can’t be confident that they can cover a political rally without being assaulted because the political party doesn’t like what they have to say, that’s not a free press. And to those who say ‘oh, he shouldn’t have gone to an antifa rally if he didn’t want to get hurt’ are you kidding me? You and I have every de jure right to walk the streets whenever we want especially if the protest is not permitted.

The answer here is not to think of violence on the streets as something to just, ‘deal with’ or take for granted as a new normal. If the police do nothing, as the Mayor of Portland so wants, this will get worse not better. You don’t put out a fire by standing back and hoping it will burn up all the fuel.

Riot police holding back protestors and dispersing crowds.



Here we have literal Chilean communists getting hit by water cannon.



There’s nothing wrong with riot police doing their jobs, there’s nothing wrong with batons, tear gas, water cannons, and other non-lethal crowd control methods. That’s absolutely what they should do if not to break up the rioters at least to keep the left wing antifa and right wing proud boys apart.

To sum up, the problem will remain as long as you have articles like these that seek to minimise socialist violence by comparing them to those they are meant to oppose.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8984256.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/u...is-antifa.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/u...ayor-cruz.html

I mean really ‘a milkshake, a punch, and #himtoo renew police criticism? What kind of headline is that? Or how about when they say, “The assault of a conservative journalist in Portland, Ore., over the weekend has brought renewed attention to anti-fascist protesters, whom he blamed for the attack.” ‘Whom he blamed’? Really? Who else is to blame. This article is a day or two after the incident mind.

[Basil II the B.S]

Well I had made a thread about Ngo, it got merged with the anti-lib one, so I'm just going with the interpretation that antifa are libs as well. I understand your pain, but quite frankly even the Economist has been going with ''liberals today should support woke capitalism because of historical injustices'', so I guess it's time to bury the term. We can defend individual freedoms without it.

[Cyclops]

Lmao, we need the Ministry of Truth by libs to tell us what's true or not because we can't tell ourself. Orwellian as usual.

You have identified the People's Republic of China as "your side". "Your side" has literal Ministries of Truth, massive internet censorship and the arbitrary detention of journalists for reporting facts. It also has mass sterilizations, forced immigration, "great replacements" bordering on genocide and all the other nonsense you parrot over and over.

Its wonderful how humourless lockstep ideology plays as farce so effortlessly.

[Cyclops]

I don’t even know what the discussion here is anymore. The proud boys? Maybe they’re dicks, maybe they’re okay, but Andy Ngo isn’t among them. As in he is not a member.

Yet to be established although at first blush he's no more than a fellow traveler. Its relevant because they start fights for attention. Seeing the start of the fight would put it all to bed.

Basil if you keep calling literal anarachist communists ‘liberals’ I swear I’ll go neurotic.

You're waiting for him to post something sensible?

The thing that gets me about this story is so called anti fascists fighting what they call ‘hate’ with violence. I think we all need to think about whether it’s okay to punch Nazis, real ones or otherwise.

Police need to keep the peace, but when ratbags want as fight to get attention the authorities have to walk a fine line. They also offer a "left alternative , which when capitalism ain't going so great, neds to be handled gingerly. If Portland send in the Cossacks like the Tsarists did in 1905 you end up with 1917.

Antifa did not have a permit. It was an illegal protest using public roads blocking the public from their right to their day-to-day life.

They are asking to fight cops and imagined Nazis to gain attention and "legitimacy". That's why them bashing a "gay non-whjite" is such a coup for alt right types. It makes thenm look more like the fash they aim to bash.

Opposing hate does not make you right. One thing I’ve seen is CNN, who through Cuomo and Don Lemon had previously seemed to be apologist for Antifa, CNN is now acknowledging Antifa as a bad group, at least it seems that way.

CNN's Cuomo defends Antifa: Those who oppose hate 'are on the side of right'

As I say left movements have to be handled carefully so they don't get crucified.

Yet again we have the idea that ‘hate’ is something that should be either illegal or opposed violently. I don’t think it’s out of the question for me to say that Chris Cuomo supports Antifa.

Don Lemon Defends Antifa: "No Organization Is Perfect"

Andy Ngo:

Proud Boys and other trolls play a similar game. Add to this the posturing required from politicians in the Byzantine US political system and you can't expect sensible comments from politicians.

What I find disgusting is people on this very thread and elsewhere trying to say a WSJ and Quillette writer is not a journalist. That’s ‘post-truth’ if I’ve ever seen it. And the people saying he provoked antifa by doxxing them? Even if that’s true, the idea that it’s justifiable to assault journalists for doxxing is extremely grave and scary for the future of journalism. If journalists can’t be confident that they can cover a political rally without being assaulted because the political party doesn’t like what they have to say, that’s not a free press. And to those who say ‘oh, he shouldn’t have gone to an antifa rally if he didn’t want to get hurt’ are you kidding me? You and I have every de jure right to walk the streets whenever we want especially if the protest is not permitted.

Journalism is not a sacred profession, and he's as dirty as any of them. If he's a doxxer then he's actually a political player: his bizarre "chilled by niqabs" articled makes it look like he's a partisan troll too. All that is irrelevant, even a troll can't be bashed for no reason-if that's what happened. Witnesses and/or more video evidence will clear this up.

The answer here is not to think of violence on the streets as something to just, ‘deal with’ or take for granted as a new normal. If the police do nothing, as the Mayor of Portland so wants, this will get worse not better. You don’t put out a fire by standing back and hoping it will burn up all the fuel.

Yeah but it is more delicate than that. The US has a strong libertarian tradition opposed to its equally strong Federal Government, and down the line there's forces resisting "too much" policing (however that's defined). We're both from the British tradition and the game is played very differently in Australia and England.

If you came to Melbourne and I came to London and we saw a march, say "more wages for nurses". The cops are there, there's fringe ratbags with dreads trying to fight some cops, some football hooligans or whatever wanting to fight them, we'd both have a fair clue to the power game going on, if a fight started you'd be like "yeah the criminals that infiltrate the football gangs flexed their muscles, the Left can't control its foot soldiers but they want them to be taken seriously, and the Government will minimize their side's culpability and blame the others". PM Boris would rabbit on about "selfishness of irrelevant and un-British Unions" but PM Jeremy would moan about the legacy of Tory social disharmony caused by Thatcher or not enough immigration" or something, the headlines write themselves.

The US game is all different pieces, with a different board and different rules, and its baffling.

Riot police holding back protestors and dispersing crowds.



Here we have literal Chilean communists getting hit by water cannon.



There’s nothing wrong with riot police doing their jobs, there’s nothing wrong with batons, tear gas, water cannons, and other non-lethal crowd control methods. That’s absolutely what they should do if not to break up the rioters at least to keep the left wing antifa and right wing proud boys apart.

...unless they are there to fight cops and paint the Mayor as "supporting the fascists!", ditto right wing groups wanting to be able to yell "look the Jews are helping the reds bash us and the cops did nothing!" or whatever their catchcry is. The mayor is treading on eggshells here because the game is political, not because he is brain dead.

To sum up, the problem will remain as long as you have articles like these that seek to minimise socialist violence by comparing them to those they are meant to oppose.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8984256.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/u...is-antifa.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/u...ayor-cruz.html

I mean really ‘a milkshake, a punch, and #himtoo renew police criticism? What kind of headline is that? Or how about when they say, “The assault of a conservative journalist in Portland, Ore., over the weekend has brought renewed attention to anti-fascist protesters, whom he blamed for the attack.” ‘Whom he blamed’? Really? Who else is to blame. This article is a day or two after the incident mind.

Its a dance and not all the players are apparent to me as an outsider. Where do the left wing in the US get their organizing capability? If someone posts another video of some fat ex-KGB insisting Universities are a communist plot I'll go neurotic, but there is some zombie Soviet communism at play (as it is in my country). Someone with brains and skill lends a hand to the organisation of antifa, who are not people with brains and skill.

Obviously the "Second Amendment" people get run by gunsellers and senile Oil Billionaires with Libertarian tendencies (when they don't have a hard-on for another Gulf War, harder to maintain at the their age poor Koch bros). The Breitbart/4Chan alliance may get their money from some other billionaire (one interested in anti-Semitic loli porn I guess? That probably narrows it down) plus the KKK given the obsession with toxic racist versions of cucking their parrots chirp about.

We don't see the hands on the wires, just the marionettes. Our US cousins do things very differently, its been hammered home for me again and again in on-line discussion.

[Basil II the B.S]

You have identified the People's Republic of China as "your side". "Your side" has literal Ministries of Truth, massive internet censorship and the arbitrary detention of journalists for reporting facts. It also has mass sterilizations, forced immigration, "great replacements" bordering on genocide and all the other nonsense you parrot over and over.

Its wonderful how humourless lockstep ideology plays as farce so effortlessly.

This is the EU:
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-...disinformation

''High Level Group on fake news and online disinformation''. Now, the sophisticated, exceptionally long name isn't enough to fool anyone. That's a ministry of truth. Just like ''Trust and safety'' departments of tech companies are ministries of truth. They retain all the aspects: positive inspiring name for a ''benevolent'' institution that de-facto does the exact opposite, censorship.

Liberals are also forcing third world migration to eradicate the ethnic and cultural identities of Europeans for social engineering and moralistic purposes. So, everything you accuse China of doing, your side is actually doing.

Just like your side works with Salafist Muslims in Syria, Nazis in Ukraine or Communists in Kurdistan. You don't get to complain about anyone else's moral standards when your side has none.

I have also shown how it's people on your side that are the most consistent in applying double-standards when it comes to censorship, but also the most racist, intolerant and hateful in the Western world: upper class white liberals.

[alhoon]

Let's try to bring the discussion back to where it started, which Portland

[Cyclops]

Liberals are also forcing third world migration to eradicate the ethnic and cultural identities of Europeans for social engineering and moralistic purposes. So, everything you accuse China of doing, your side is actually doing.

I don't accept your puerile moieties any more than I accept your woolly logic.

Just like your side works with Salafist Muslims in Syria, Nazis in Ukraine or Communists in Kurdistan. You don't get to complain about anyone else's moral standards when your side has none.

..so if a "side" has any immoral element all its adherents need to stop talking talking? "Your side" harvests Falun Gong organs so if you had a shred of intellectual honesty, you'd be logging off for ever.

I have also shown how it's people on your side that are the most consistent in applying double-standards when it comes to censorship,

"..in this essay". Your post has more than a whiff of Soviet academia to it.

but also the most racist, intolerant and hateful in the Western world: upper class white liberals.

Snap! Gotcha! Kapow! Take that, White Western Liberals! Worst. Bourgeoisie. Ever.

What a pile of racist class based prejudice. Your post (well all your posts really) sounds like the ravings of an East European nationalist with sentimental regret for the passing of Stalin's regime who hates the West.I can almost smell the cabbage.