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Thread: Portland: Journalist injured during riot between Antifa and Proud Boys.

  1. #81

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You cited law regarding the use of deadly force. Thats not the same as a regular fight. You also have to prove you feared for your life when use deadly force.

    @BWB Couple months should be fine. Your ti.e limit that started days ago before this argument is too short. But i understand why you made it so short. Too afraid to lose the bet?
    And you cited an article referring to the Castle Doctrine not Duty to Retreat.

    However, from the case I linked to above:
    "At the close of trial, the court gave a series of jury instructions that were drawn from Uniform Criminal Jury Instructions:


     “A person is justified in using physical force upon another person to defend himself from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force.   In defending, a person may only use that degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary."

    (It then goes onto talk about deadly force as well)

    No duty to retreat. Physical force, not deadly force. No duty to retreat.
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 03, 2019 at 07:39 AM.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    And you cited an article referring to the Castle Doctrine not Duty to Retreat.

    However, from the case I linked to above:
    "At the close of trial, the court gave a series of jury instructions that were drawn from Uniform Criminal Jury Instructions:


     “A person is justified in using physical force upon another person to defend himself from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force.   In defending, a person may only use that degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary."

    (It then goes onto talk about deadly force as well)

    No duty to retreat. Physical force, not deadly force. No duty to retreat.
    Yes but that still wouldn't apply to most fights. Defending yourself is still not the same as assault and battery. There is a line that many of the protesters crossed that went beyond just defending yourself to attacking others. L

  3. #83

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    I didn't blame the journalist for getting attacked. Only stating these protests tend to get violent so i'd avoid them. Do try again though HH.
    Okay, so you are trying to justify rape by saying that people in the area were horny. That's not better. Journalists did nothing wrong and media and establishment trying to justify actions of antifa thugs are morally bankrupt and disgusting.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Okay, so you are trying to justify rape by saying that people in the area were horny. That's not better. Journalists did nothing wrong and media and establishment trying to justify actions of antifa thugs are morally bankrupt and disgusting.
    Thats a nice strawman but both Antifia and And the Proud Boys are known extremeist groups. The journalists are not to blame that doesn't change one bit what i said. Violent extremeist groups tend to have violent protests.
    Last edited by Vanoi; July 03, 2019 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Why are those groups allowed to exist though? If you know they are violent extremists why not ban them.
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  6. #86

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Why are those groups allowed to exist though? If you know they are violent extremists why not ban them.
    What do you mean, "ban them"? That's not how the US usually works. The FBI is keeping an eye on both groups, I would assume.
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  7. #87
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Thats a nice strawman but both Antifia and And the Proud Boys are known extremeist groups. The journalists are not to blame that doesn't change one bit what i said. Violent extremeist groups tend to have violent protests.
    ok, seems we need a serious leg up here:

    "Antifa" is not a group. Anti-facists are a collection of groups and individuals, just like islamists or fascists. the proud boys are an organisation, but there is no organisation called "Fascists" either.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

    groups and individuals can be targeted by law enforcement.

    the US is notoriously ineffictive, and in some cases probably disinterested in monitoring hate groups in any permanent fashion.

    [I]In the US, The FBI does not publish a list of hate groups, and it also says that "nvestigations are only conducted when a threat or advocacy of force is made; when the group has the apparent ability to carry out the proclaimed act; and when the act would constitute a potential violation of federal law". The FBI maintains statistics on hate crimes.[2]

    as for domestic terrorism, there is no definition in federal law:

    While international terrorism ("acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries") is a defined crime in federal law,[5] no federal criminal offense exists which is referred to as "domestic terrorism". Acts of domestic terrorism are charged under specific laws, such as killing federal agents or "attempting to use explosives to destroy a building in interstate commerce".[6]

    as such, the US is hardly well equiped to deal with such threats, and the common ignorance about this isnt helpful. especially since it furthers unreflected whataboutism when it comes to comparing groups and individuals that engage in civil disobedience, property damage and, sometimes, assault, with groups and individuals connected to, and involved in, hate crimes, including murder and incitement.

    "extremist" is an umbrella term too, it is not helpful in any legal sense. that is why hate crimes are monitored, at least in theory, and why some countries define and monitor certain groups.

    resistance to violent hate groups is portrayed as equivalent to the actions of said hate groups to create a narrative in support, or at least defense, of hate groups. that is the goal of people like Ngo, and he chewed off more than he could swallow. he went to an event to defame one side to further the goals of the other. in for an inch, in for a punch.

    and before the usual suspects continue to embarass themselves, lets get one more definition down.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group

    so, maybe we can move even farther away from the OPs inane ranting (i am surprised this threat wasnt closed until that is fixed), and focus on the motivations and actual legal circumstances, now that some things are clearer?

    Ngo wasnt attacked for being gay or asian. he wasnt there to report, he was there to create propaganda. there was no para-military involved (if there are connections to far-right para-military, i am unaware of it). the democratic party has no vested interest in supporting far-left extremism, they are a largerly neo-liberal party, and people like biden are lapsed moderate republicans.

    also, id like some clarification as to who dunnit and how, beyond "i dont like the look of them".

  8. #88

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Why are those groups allowed to exist though? If you know they are violent extremists why not ban them.
    Antifa rely on rather loose organization which makes it hard to cripple them. They also generally pop up in strongly left wing areas thus can count on police leniency (as it's the case in Portland), political favouritism and positive media coverage. What's noteworthy about the US version is the fact that they heavily use Facebook and Twitter, with the latter organizations doing absolutely nothing about it as further evidence of tech bias.

    What's interesting is that every time a right winger does something dumb, these companies tighten the grip and permanently ban a number of relatively unrelated individuals. When a left winger does it... nothing happens. This also includes blue tick members who cheerlead violence.

    It's also interesting that people bring in the Proud Boys, since their reason to exist is exactly what Antifa claim to do: fight violent extremists of the other side. When college violence started escalating in 2015 and it was only leftwingers doing this, eventually a number of people popped up and said ''well, if they can do it, we can defend ourselves''. That's the Proud Boys. The Anti-antifa.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    It goes without saying that this assault should be condemned but pretending like this is anything but a minor crime perpetrated by a bunch of thugs who are hardly representative of the wider liberal population is pretty cringeworthy. I suppose some conseratives, much like their left wing counterparts, enjoy feeling outraged and victimised and I guess this is just the latest incident to facilitate it, because on the face of it, this really isn't a big deal, even if Ted Cruz is calling for the impeachment of the city's Democrats.
    Interesting. So acts of political violence are negligible to you when leftist presidential candidates refuse to condemn political violence in order to ostensibly pursue right think, but the same actors are incapable of the exact opposite and must be opposed simply for the interpretation of their positions, not the actual affects of their beliefs? A minor crime? People have been hospitalized with brain bleeds. That is a minor crime of assault to you? Aggravated assault is just a :minor crime: in your book then I call BS. You're tolerant of violent crime if it propagates your moronic political agenda. Go ahead and admit it. Political violence is completely fine so long as it supports your regressive, anti-western leftist views.

    Stop pretending to be outraged while supporting the violence. You're not fooling anyone. Antifa is a domestic terrorist group way more effective than even the KKK and all it takes is some brainshwashed, ill informed antifa moron to try to push up against that. Honestly how ing stupid does antifa expect us to be? The KKK is basically a negligible factor in every single designation, and think god they are. Your moronic insistence racism/the KKK/whatever is still a force of racism is just dumb.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; July 03, 2019 at 05:58 PM.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Third Degree is getting a Proud Boy tattoo.
    I'm getting schooled in this thread, is the "fourth degree" getting arrest or into a major punch up?

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    What do you mean, "ban them"? That's not how the US usually works. The FBI is keeping an eye on both groups, I would assume.
    There's a history of extremist violence in the US, from the KKK to communists and anarchists (some would say the Boston Tea Party, but they would say that in an upper class English accent).

    The left has seen waxing and waning in is activity in the US and has been far more violent at times in the past. I think there were terrorist bombings in Washington before WW1 by the anarchists or Socialists. Ratbag lefties serve as a sign that maybe the capitalists have gotten a bit ahead of themselves and its time to throw the proles a bone (or a New Deal as its known in the Roosevelt family).

    In a way extreme groups are a product of parts of the US system. It has a powerful capitalist more or less) economy which naturally produces a kind of "socialist reaction", there's a powerful Federal government that in a way provokes libertarianism and a diverse ethnic profile that leads (as night follows day) to racism. Religious tolerance leads to extreme religious responses and so on.
    Last edited by Cyclops; July 03, 2019 at 06:13 PM.
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  11. #91
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Some random journalist getting a few lumps is nothing compared to the REAL effects of unchecked israeli influence on Portland:
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sh...een-story-time
    We live in the late stages of Weimar America, where the most vile sexual deviancy is being normalized for children at shockingly tender ages. In an age where you can't trust any adult with your kids, these idiot "parents" brainwashed by israeli media are encouraging intimate contact with this pervert freak, and this is far from an isolated incident. The silver lining is that there is one outcome following a Wiemar era of degeneracy.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The "Proud Boys" are just the lightest taste of what's coming to America. Boomer cuckservatives and evangelicals will be dying out soon enough, and with them the last real hold of israeli infiltration into the American Right. Once that leash is slipped, its going to get ugly. And these guys have lots of guns with plenty of stored up ammo and rage. I don't think anyone on the right, in this thread or in the greater scheme of things is particularly upset about Ngo getting beat on. They're upset about the obvious disparity in coverage provided by israeli media and that they can't respond in kind as justice demands. I think the days of having to be an optics cuck for leftist media are drawing to an end. Between these scuffles and the blatant sexual brainwashing being inflicted on the youngest Americans, Portland stands as the template israel wishes to impose on the West as a whole.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet View Post
    Some random journalist getting a few lumps is nothing compared to the REAL effects of unchecked israeli influence on Portland:
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sh...een-story-time
    No. Freedom of the press, and the pushes and substantiated efforts with those pushes matter. You don't get to censor whatever you like and then legitimize and publish without the regular checks and balances: and it seems there has been no censorship here. You're just wrong.

    I agree with you that the transgender/trans/sexual rights being forced upon the youth are highly anti-science, wrong, and terminally incorrect.

    The "Proud Boys" are just the lightest taste of what's coming to America. Boomer cuckservatives and evangelicals will be dying out soon enough, and with them the last real hold of israeli infiltration into the American Right. Once that leash is slipped, its going to get ugly. And these guys have lots of guns with plenty of stored up ammo and rage. I don't think anyone on the right, in this thread or in the greater scheme of things is particularly upset about Ngo getting beat on. They're upset about the obvious disparity in coverage provided by israeli media and that they can't respond in kind as justice demands. I think the days of having to be an optics cuck for leftist media are drawing to an end. Between these scuffles and the blatant sexual brainwashing being inflicted on the youngest Americans, Portland stands as the template israel wishes to impose on the West as a whole.
    Yeah, no. Ngo is a gay Vietnamese conservative. He will not invigorate the moronic right-motivated race based surge. This is a good thing. Any race, sexual orientated, ethnic, or religious based motivation for political activity is a good thing to suppress. Everyone on the right should vote based upon ideology or electoral issues - end all - to eliminate this identity based idiocy.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; July 03, 2019 at 06:43 PM.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Thats a nice strawman but both Antifia and And the Proud Boys are known extremeist groups. The journalists are not to blame that doesn't change one bit what i said. Violent extremeist groups tend to have violent protests.
    No Vanoi, if someone is randomly attacked for no reason, its not their fault. Fact of the matter is that its groups like antifa are typically the ones that start violence (Charlottesville, inauguration protests, Portland, the list goes on), they are responsible for the attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Why are those groups allowed to exist though? If you know they are violent extremists why not ban them.
    They should have a right to exist, but I'm okay with book thrown at them if they start attacking people who they think are "nazis" (which is pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with their beliefs).

  14. #94

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Yes but that still wouldn't apply to most fights. Defending yourself is still not the same as assault and battery. There is a line that many of the protesters crossed that went beyond just defending yourself to attacking others. L
    Ah, I think I get what you mean. When you were claiming that the only place there was no duty to retreat in Oregon was if you were in your house when attacked, what you actually meant was that the person who is attacked, even not in that person's house, does not have a duty to retreat, and can respond to physical force with physical force, but not be unreasonably excessive (or as the court case I cited said: "In defending, a person may only use that degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary."). (Or, if we are in Oregon, which does not have a 'Duty to Retreat' and I take a poke at you, the law would allow you box my ears a bit, but you could not curbstomp me, legally).
    Is that what you meant?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm getting schooled in this thread, is the "fourth degree" getting arrest or into a major punch up?
    My understanding is that the 'fourth degree' is a recent innovation and involves getting into a 'punch up' with (I'll dispense with my usual accolades for the moment) Antifa. I am not aware of any 'degree' that involves getting arrested. Proud Boys, tmk, tend to focus their violence on antifa.
    (but only for the moment)
    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post


    "Antifa" is not a group. Anti-facists are a collection of groups and individuals, just like islamists or fascists. the proud boys are an organisation, but there is no organisation called "Fascists" either.
    groups and individuals can be targeted by law enforcement.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...nce-fbi-242235
    FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks
    Confidential documents call the anarchists that seek to counter white supremacists ‘domestic terrorists.’
    By JOSH MEYER
    09/01/2017 04:55 AM EDT
    Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO.
    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    as for domestic terrorism, there is no definition in federal law:
    18 U.S. Code § 2331. Definitions
    (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
    (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    (B) appear to be intended—
    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
    (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States; and
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331

    What was that you said HannibalExMachina?
    Oh, yeah:
    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    ok, seems we need a serious leg up here:


    and before the usual suspects continue to embarass themselves,
    HTH

    resistance to violent hate groups is portrayed as equivalent to the actions of said hate groups to create a narrative in support, or at least defense, of hate groups.
    Exactly, the completely un-nazi, un-pathetic, un-coward antifa, engage in masked gang defense actions against violent hate groups such as reporters, police, Jews leaving places of business, BLM leaders, old wheelchair bound vets, soldiers on leave, random passers by, Bernie supporters, banks, schools, cars, coffeeshops etc (you know, any "nazi" that they come across, from behind and armed).
    that is the goal of people like Ngo, and he chewed off more than he could swallow. he went to an event to defame one side to further the goals of the other. in for an inch, in for a punch.
    And the 'he deserved to be beaten and put in a hospital for filming'.
    But you would never do it yourself, would you HannibalExMachina?
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 04, 2019 at 10:06 AM.

  15. #95

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm getting schooled in this thread, is the "fourth degree" getting arrest or into a major punch up?


    There's a history of extremist violence in the US, from the KKK to communists and anarchists (some would say the Boston Tea Party, but they would say that in an upper class English accent).

    The left has seen waxing and waning in is activity in the US and has been far more violent at times in the past. I think there were terrorist bombings in Washington before WW1 by the anarchists or Socialists. Ratbag lefties serve as a sign that maybe the capitalists have gotten a bit ahead of themselves and its time to throw the proles a bone (or a New Deal as its known in the Roosevelt family).

    In a way extreme groups are a product of parts of the US system. It has a powerful capitalist more or less) economy which naturally produces a kind of "socialist reaction", there's a powerful Federal government that in a way provokes libertarianism and a diverse ethnic profile that leads (as night follows day) to racism. Religious tolerance leads to extreme religious responses and so on.
    You don't need an upper class English accent to recognise that stripping a man naked and pouring boiling hot tar over him is an act of extremist violence, The founding father John Adams himself criticised the actions of the Boston extremists up to the events that sparked off the revolutionary war.

    One of the things that makes extremist violence common in America is the way Americans view free speech without restriction.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Interesting. So acts of political violence are negligible to you when leftist presidential candidates refuse to condemn political violence in order to ostensibly pursue right think, but the same actors are incapable of the exact opposite and must be opposed simply for the interpretation of their positions, not the actual affects of their beliefs?
    I don't quite understand what this word salad is trying to say. Can you try again?

    A minor crime? People have been hospitalized with brain bleeds. That is a minor crime of assault to you? Aggravated assault is just a :minor crime: in your book then I call BS. You're tolerant of violent crime if it propagates your moronic political agenda. Go ahead and admit it. Political violence is completely fine so long as it supports your regressive, anti-western leftist views.
    Yeah, in the grand scheme of criminality within the US this seems like a pretty minor crime to me. No, I'm not tolerant of violent crime if it propagates 'my moronic political agenda' as evidenced by the fact that first thing I did was condemn it. Please spare us the tiresome and baseless emotional screeching.

    I assume the rest of your post wasn't directed at me since it seems completely unrelated to anything I said.
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  17. #97
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    @Infidel yes thats what i meant. Both sides took it way too far for it to be self defense.



    https://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ick-dry-cement

    According to the Portland Mercury, there is no actual evidenve to suggest quick drying cement was thrown as milkshakes or in milkshakes. According to the Portland police themselves it was just one officer who said that he observed to be quick drying cement and thats how the information got started.

    So the entire outrage over the milkshakes is based on nothing but the observation of one person who thought he saw quick drying cement.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    One of the things that makes extremist violence common in America is the way Americans view free speech without restriction.
    What inane drivel.

    1. Extremist violence isn't "common" in America.
    2. The First Amendment is a solution to extremism not the cause of it.



  19. #99

    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post

    One of the things that makes extremist violence common in America is the way Americans view free speech without restriction.
    US doesn't really have a problem with extremist violence. Nor there is a problem with free speech. Extremist groups like SPLC or antifa are, in fact, an issue, but they can be dealt with by holding those that provide funding to them responsible. Creating a precedent by fining the everloving out of some "human rights" NGO that delivers them cash could do the trick.

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Portland has fallen: the post-apocalyptic result of unchecked leftism.

    SPLC isnt an extremeist group. The Proud Boys are though.

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