How true is the Bible?

[basics]

conon394,

The original Methodists believed as Calvin did that God predestined those that were to be saved. Some time others believed that salvation was for all and so we got the modern Methodist movement which by the way is also what a lot of other denominations also believe. What has transpired out of that is that salvation belongs to the choice of man rather than God which goes against what the Scriptures actually have to say on the subject. Jesus said, " No man may come to the Father except by Me and no man can come to Me except the father draws him." In other words it is impossible for men to save themselves. Salvation in every context needs Father, Son and Holy Spirit to intercede in the affairs of any person and them brought to a certain broken and contrite heart before regeneration can take place. So, your good lady may well be born again, yourself and others not knowing it, but God does. Therefore blees her and cherish her because I have known two or three females who were born again even though their menfolk weren't and at least one husband was converted whilst serving in the Falkland Islands some time later. It might be you next ole fella.

[conon394]

conon394,

The original Methodists believed as Calvin did that God predestined those that were to be saved. Some time others believed that salvation was for all and so we got the modern Methodist movement which by the way is also what a lot of other denominations also believe. What has transpired out of that is that salvation belongs to the choice of man rather than God which goes against what the Scriptures actually have to say on the subject. Jesus said, " No man may come to the Father except by Me and no man can come to Me except the father draws him." In other words it is impossible for men to save themselves. Salvation in every context needs Father, Son and Holy Spirit to intercede in the affairs of any person and them brought to a certain broken and contrite heart before regeneration can take place. So, your good lady may well be born again, yourself and others not knowing it, but God does. Therefore blees her and cherish her because I have known two or three females who were born again even though their menfolk weren't and at least one husband was converted whilst serving in the Falkland Islands some time later. It might be you next ole fella.

Might be you never can tell (on the last). But for now I stand somewhere between a true classical Epicurean (none of the modern connotations)/Atomist (the Science bit) and with a bit of Seneca tossed in on the side - a Stoic for what Greeks would have called perhaps philosophical opsonin perhaps.

[basics]

conan394,

When God made woman He knew exactly what He was doing for in the human sense there is nothing that turns a man's heart quicker than a good woman. We men think we have it all but when it comes to a loving family women leave us standing every time. There's nothing quite like a mother's love. The only thing greater was when God gave His only begotten Son to repair that which not even a woman could do in bringing many, men and women back to where they belonged in the first place. So yes, you never can tell where the Holy Spirit might fall next.

[TheLeft]

Seriously though, has ANYONE found any talking snakes yet? We've only has 6,000 years to find some. Should be ample time, if they existed...

[Akar]

While sober? No.

[basics]

You miss the point again because the garden was a type of heaven where Spirituality was the key. If in the real world evil spirits can and do enter humans why not animals and the garden is but a picture of what spirits can do and one in particular did to Adam and Eve. If it had been a parrot would anyone question that? So why a snake? Well it is written a snake because of its subtlety, its innocence that fooled Eve that satan used in this particular case. From the fall of all creation there was no more innocence as everything was bloghted by sin and death. It has become the nature of all things and that is why Jesus Christ is coming back to replace this creation with another.

[Common Soldier]

Seriously though, has ANYONE found any talking snakes yet? We've only has 6,000 years to find some. Should be ample time, if they existed...

Well, dragons are often called serpents and some of them talked like Smaug, but knights.lime St. George killed them all off.

Plus the serpentas in the Garden of Eden which people are now blocked from entering. You will find the talking serpent next to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and near rhe he Tree of Life.
.

[basics]

The problem most people have with the Bible is that it exposes even the minutest wrong and that's the last thing anyone wants to hear so best stay away from it. If all the miracles recorded plus an empty tomb won't convince them it only shows how deep into sin they are bound. On these things the Bible is 100% solid.

[Akar]

If all the miracles recorded

The miracles are only recorded in the bible. The only evidence for the bible existing is the bible. You can see why people have doubts as to the veracity of these claims.

[conon394]

The problem most people have with the Bible is that it exposes even the minutest wrong and that's the last thing anyone wants to hear so best stay away from it. If all the miracles recorded plus an empty tomb won't convince them it only shows how deep into sin they are bound. On these things the Bible is 100% solid.

I would concur with Akar. The miracles exist only in the bible. Neither the Roman's nor the Jews were some kind of modern Atheists by an large or at all. The laundry list of miracles is quite large one would think it would play in a report sent to Rome more then just some jew we crucified as rebel or got Josephus to say more than mah. Given the inconsistency of the OT and its absoultly implausible claims its hard to buy the NT.

[basics]

The miracles are only recorded in the bible. The only evidence for the bible existing is the bible. You can see why people have doubts as to the veracity of these claims.

Akar,

No my friend miracles do still happen and have been written of by many people even today in our age, the Bible revealing the source of these. The impossible is proved to be not so impossible all down through human history yet these stories are not in the Bible but where faith is concenred done still in the name of Jesus Christ. These threads are filled with me telling what I know of and there is plenty of reading material available by others who have experienced the power of God in their lives from any good Christian bookshop.

[TheLeft]

The miracles are only recorded in the bible. The only evidence for the bible existing is the bible. You can see why people have doubts as to the veracity of these claims.

I once died for a week then came back to life. I've also turned dirt into gold and Budweiser into a drink that isn't bloody awful piss water...

I don't need to verify these claims and I know you'll all believe me because Bible logic...

[conon394]

and Budweiser into a drink that isn't bloody awful piss water...

OK that is impressive but if you can also do it to sub grade of piss water that frat parties handed out and I got caught up in and talked into going to across 12 years of higher education I will believe you are the savior. Or at least the prophet of something. If it you can make warm pbr into wine you have my belief (and also kill all rufies the a-- hats were trying to dose - you would think if you get in college you would know never to take any drink a guy at a frat party handed you...).

[basics]

I once died for a week then came back to life. I've also turned dirt into gold and Budweiser into a drink that isn't bloody awful piss water...

I don't need to verify these claims and I know you'll all believe me because Bible logic...

The Left,

Well, didn't Peter and Paul raise the dead after Jesus was raised to Glory?

[Akar]

Akar,

No my friend miracles do still happen and have been written of by many people even today in our age, the Bible revealing the source of these. The impossible is proved to be not so impossible all down through human history yet these stories are not in the Bible but where faith is concenred done still in the name of Jesus Christ. These threads are filled with me telling what I know of and there is plenty of reading material available by others who have experienced the power of God in their lives from any good Christian bookshop.

These threads are filled with your unverifiable claims of having personally witnessed miracles. That is irrelevant to this conversation, sadly. None of these events have been recorded outside of the eyes of the faithful, and that raises inherent doubts about the veracity of the stories. "Faith" means belief without evidence and is anathema to science. I'm likely to start believing miracles once there is actual evidence for them.

The Left,

Well, didn't Peter and Paul raise the dead after Jesus was raised to Glory?

No, they didn't.

[basics]

Akar,

How are my recollections irrelevant since the results were witnessed by unbelievers, doctors and nurses, co-pilot and navigator as well as other crew members only one of which was also a believer? Do doctors and nurses not study the science of medicine or flight crews the science of flying? You see that's the purpose of miracles, to make the impossible a reality, to show that there is a God Who does care for those that believe on Him. Faith being itself a gift from God is not blind at all rather God given knowledge that He knows and will give His all to a person of faith.

[Akar]

Your personal recollections are not evidence. You saying things were witnessed by others is way different than those people recording their experiences separately. I can say that me and 300 of my friends saw a miracle, but that doesn't make it any more likely than if I said only I saw it. Faith is inherently blinding, it is the belief in something without evidence. You cannot have faith without blindness. If the purpose of miracles is proving god, why do miracles only seem to happen in places where there are no cameras or recording devices or anyway to actually prove them?

[basics]

Akar,

Faith is all about seeing where one was blind, it being a gift of God to them brought to a knowledge of Jesus Christ by regeneration. Having seen the results of miracles first an second hand with or without others present does not invalidate them because there were no cameras there. That's just silly, why? Because the miracle is enough to prove God's power. It was written that the Jews asked for signs to help them believe but Jesus rebuffed that idea, why? Because if they couldn't see God in the miracles they wouldn't see Him anywhere. And so like you they called Him everything under the sun other than Who He actually was and is.

[Akar]

Having seen the results of miracles first an second hand with or without others present does not invalidate them because there were no cameras there

It doesn't inherently invalidate them, but it does render them useless for argumentative purposes if you have absolutely zero evidence that they happened.

Because the miracle is enough to prove God's power.

It might be enough, if there was actual evidence of a miracle taking place.

Because if they couldn't see God in the miracles they wouldn't see Him anywhere

The miracles he refused to preform for them...

[basics]

Akar,

But then who wants to argue over something as wonderful as the lame made whole, or the blind to see, even the dead being raised? The opposition did not because they hadn't happened rather because their positions of power were in jeopardy. They had to use something against Him and so knowing that miracles had happened they called it demonic. Today when they happen it is called unscientific and if one is unscientific they are to be silenced for the same reason, that of power over the people.