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Thread: How true is the Bible?

  1. #181
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    But the Bible is the literal word of God. Why should we, people who are reading His words after the fact, assign His words to being metaphors rather than literal historical facts?
    Luke 4:24 KJV

    You don't believe in men with donkey who like horses?
    Last edited by Commissar Caligula_; Yesterday at 06:53 PM.




  2. #182

    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    But the Bible is the literal word of God. Why should we, people who are reading His words after the fact, assign his words to being metaphors rather than literal historical facts?
    Luke 4:24 KJV
    Because literal word does not mean you ignore the literary conventions being used. Any work of literature needs to be interpreted as in the literally genre it was written. If written figuratively, then that writing should be interpreted figuratively. The Bible often makes it quite clear that it is in fact being figurative in what it says.

    People often use figurative conventions when talking about literal events. If I said I was went on a camping trip, and it rained cats and dogs while I was there, the fact that it rained on the camping trip is quite literal, I am saying that it was raining as a figurative way of saying I was depressed. But the "raining cats and dogs" is a well establish and commonly understood metaphor. People understand this, unless they are severely socially disabled, like Sheldon in the Big Bang TV show, or they are just being jerks.

    When we say the Bible is the literal word of God, we are not saying that the commonly used metaphors aren't used in it, but that the Bible is more than just some made up writing that merely reflects one man's opinion. When i say it rained cats and dogs, I literally mean t hat liquid H2O fell from the sky, and not that it it was some figurative way of expressing angst and gloom. But I didn't mean that furry mammals were falling out of the sky, as you clearly seem to think.

    PS - Creationist make the same error when they interpret Genesis as being seven 24 hour days as measured by the atomic clock in the National Bureau of Standards. Clearly, the author of Genesis is using Day and Night as a symbolic unit of time, since the Sun wasn't even created until the 4th Day, the author was not talking about 7 literal days as measured by your clock on your desk. Taking the Bible literally, meaning as the writer intended, as in is true for any literary work.. The Bible was written by different authors at different times in different styles and genres.

    Real people mix styles in their own speech, mixing metaphors with literal descriptions. When I say I went camping in Yellow Stone and it rained cats and dogs while I was there, it means that I actually drove to Yellow Stone and pitched my tent there, not that Yellow Stone was some figurative way of mentioning some inner journey of discovery. But it does not mean that furry critters were falling out of the sky. Most people who are not socially challenged like Sheldon have no trouble figuring this out.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; Yesterday at 07:28 PM.

  3. #183

    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    But the Bible is the literal word of God.
    Yeah, no. All scripture inspired by invisible sky creature. (See 2 Timothy 3 v16)
    Why should we, people who are reading His words after the fact, assign His words to being metaphors rather than literal historical facts?
    Luke 4:24 KJV
    Gill:
    And he said, verily I say unto you,.... Another proverb in use among them, the meaning of which was well known to them, and was very appropriate to the present case:


    no prophet is accepted in his own country; See Gill on Matthew 13:57


    Gill on Mathew 13:57:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    And they were offended in him,.... It was a stumbling to them, how he came by his wisdom and power; since he had not these things from men of learning, and could not have them from his relatives: and therefore, rather than believe he had them of himself, or from God, they chose to indulge at least a suspicion, that he had them from the devil, and so were offended in him: or this offence was taken at the meanness of his birth, parentage, and education, though without reason; for if without the advantage of an education without human literature, and the instructions of men, he was able to expound the Scriptures, preach such doctrine, and deliver such words of wisdom, and confirm all this by miracles, and mighty works, they ought to have considered him as a divine person, and all this, as a demonstration of it, and of his having a divine mission at least, and of his being raised up by God for extraordinary purposes,

    But Jesus said unto them; being unmoved at their offence in him, and contempt of him, which was no other than what he expected:


    a prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house; which seems to be a proverbial speech in common use, though I have not met with it in Jewish writings; showing, that a prophet, or any teacher, or preacher, generally speaking, is more esteemed among strangers, who have no personal pique, nor prejudices against him, and who judge of him, not by what he has been, but by his present abilities, doctrine, and conduct, than among his countrymen; who are apt to think meanly of him, because familiarly acquainted with him, and knew, if not his vices, yet his infirmities, and envy him any superior degree of honour to them, he has attained unto. I say, generally speaking, for this is not always the case on either side; sometimes a prophet is affronted and abused in strange places, as Christ himself was: and sometimes is received with esteem and applause among his countrymen, relations, and acquaintance; but this is rare and uncommon; the proverb respects what is usually and ordinarily done, and the truth of it is easy to be observed.
    Last edited by Infidel144; Yesterday at 07:59 PM. Reason: fixed chapter number

  4. #184
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    Just seeing where you guys fall on the fundamentalist scale, as in how literally you take the Bible.

    What about the Earth being made in 7 days? Do you two believe in a strict interpretation of those being seven consecutive 24 hour days, or do you think that God instead stretched the "days" into aeons, and they were not each 24 hours?




  5. #185

    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Yeah, no. All scripture inspired by invisible sky creature. (See 2 Timothy 13 v16)
    2 Timothy doesn't have 13 chapters. So what verse are you referring to?

  6. #186

    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    Just seeing where you guys fall on the fundamentalist scale, as in how literally you take the Bible.

    What about the Earth being made in 7 days? Do you two believe in a strict interpretation of those being seven consecutive 24 hour days, or do you think that God instead stretched the "days" into aeons, and they were not each 24 hours?
    Yeah, the stupid, it hurts.
    Did you read how I just referred to "God"? Do you regularly see believers (fundamentalist or otherwise) referring to "God" as 'invisible sky creature'?
    Are you just attempting to deflect from you having an incorrect interpretation of the scripture you cited?

    =======
    Common Soldier, that should read Timothy 3 not 13.
    I'll fix it.

  7. #187

    Default Re: How true is the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    Just seeing where you guys fall on the fundamentalist scale, as in how literally you take the Bible.

    What about the Earth being made in 7 days? Do you two believe in a strict interpretation of those being seven consecutive 24 hour days, or do you think that God instead stretched the "days" into aeons, and they were not each 24 hours?
    My apologies, I thought you were being serious.

    I think the fundamentalist who interpret Genesis as 7 twenty four hour days as measure by an appointment omic clock has misunderstood the writers of Gensesis intent. Clearly, Says was symbolic unit of time, the Sun wasn't even created until thefourth day, so how can you talked about Day and Night before then?

    Even the story of Adam was not necessarily literal, it was more like a just so story, like how the tiger got his stripes and why the elephant has a trunk. Although later booksninntue Bible donseem tontake Adam literally, maybe. You can talk about fictional characters asnif they were real - people talk about the motivations of Ahab in Moby Sick as if he were a real person, and I have heard Harry Potter quoted in graduation speeches. So maybe the writer of Genesis didn't think of Adam as a real person in the same way David was thought of.

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