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Thread: Translation Italian

  1. #1

    Default Translation Italian

    Hi,

    I would like translate the text of EB2 into Italian, can someone help me ?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Hello,

    I'm not an italian speaker.

    But, when I have start to translate EBII in french, I have find some help only in a french forum (Mundus Bellicus).

    It's a long time task. For the french version, after more than one year of work, nearly six peoples have helped me, but today, we are only two to work on the translation, because it's time consuming.

    We have translated all the texts of the celtic, roman, greek, carthaginian factions (except the province descriptions that are very time consuming). We are now working on the lusitanian and celtiberian factions.

    But this mod is worthy of all the work of that need a translation.

    So, I wish you good luck for your project, and if you need technical help, you can ask me.

    For the translation, as Quintus Sertorius suggest to me, I use notepad++ to edit the EBII text files. At the beginings I used wordpad, but I had a lot of CTD. So now I use wordpad to translate the text, and notepad++ to add the french text in the text files.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Hi torf,

    Thanks for advice
    I discoverd that also common word processor for Linux (I use it) they are not good, now I use notepadqq (version for Linux of notepad++) like you say.
    I know that is a long work, but it is not important for me
    I scouting in italian forum of EB2 or strategic videogames.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Good luck, but I'd rather try to persuade our people that learning basic english might be actually quite important, dunno? They still don't seem to get it. Not that difficult either: to me, school english + untranlasted videogames + surfing the internet reading and listening (in english) was enough.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Aper View Post
    Good luck, but I'd rather try to persuade our people that learning basic english might be actually quite important, dunno? They still don't seem to get it.
    You would do well to consider that people may have other reasons besides not knowing English and not bothering to learn for wanting to do things in other languages.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    I'm agree with Septenntionalis.

    Also, the philosophy of this mod is to invite the players to "read more history".

    Even for somebody who has an average knowledge of english language, it's difficult to read and to understand all the texts of a full province description.

    Make a translation of this mod allowed more players to gain access to all the treasures of informations that contain the descriptions.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    I guess me and Aper share the same experience of finding games really useful in learning a language. Many games present a steady but limited input of text so as not to make it overwhelming. Games are also so much more interesting than textbooks in most cases and provide an incentive other than learning language per se to keep going and absorbing.

    Games had a central role for me in learning English as a foreign language. Now that I already do quite well, I prefer to play games in Spanish and have made quite a lot of progress there. I would be happy to switch my EB2 into Italian or French, in which I already have some level of understanding of written language but still have much to learn.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    You would do well to consider that people may have other reasons besides not knowing English and not bothering to learn for wanting to do things in other languages.
    Yes, it occurred to me later, sorry.
    My rant was not really about this project but the people in Italy (often young and smart) cheering the coming of a translation, or whining because publishers don't plan to do one, as it was such a big deal.
    It's something I've seen my entire life as a gamer, and if it was ok 20 years ago, now it's not, IMO. Just learn your f*ing english, it's quite worth it, I'd say.
    Didn't want to be a jerk, anyway.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    You would do well to consider that people may have other reasons besides not knowing English and not bothering to learn for wanting to do things in other languages.
    Honestly, given the absurd amount of text EB2 contains, plus the difficulty of making a good translation (as opposed to the rubbish that passes for newspaper articles and movie dialogue these days), I think it's easier to learn advanced English than to translate this game, or wait for someone else to translate it.
    There is also the fact to consider that being able to read English makes it a lot easier to study history; whether we like it or not, it has become the most important research language (although knowing Italian, or German or French for that matter, is very useful in that regard, too).

  10. #10
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Translation Italian

    LOL. The EBII team should have just trolled everyone from the start by making the game entirely in Classical Latin, Koine Greek, or Aramaic.

    Good luck with any translation project you decide to tackle. Like Athanaric said, it might not be worth the effort, though, considering how it would be like translating an entire encyclopedia in your spare time without getting paid an hourly wage.

  11. #11
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Translation Italian

    We had two people come in to begin work on translating an older version of the mod into Italian some time ago. They made some headway, but quit after a year, it was just too much work. Unfortunately I don't think they ever uploaded any of their work... I wouldn't attempt it without at least four dedicated people, tbh, or simply limit oneself to translating only the most important stuff.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    LOL. The EBII team should have just trolled everyone from the start by making the game entirely in Classical Latin, Koine Greek, or Aramaic.

    Good luck with any translation project you decide to tackle. Like Athanaric said, it might not be worth the effort, though, considering how it would be like translating an entire encyclopedia in your spare time without getting paid an hourly wage.
    I know, thanks but I continue.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    It is well known that English is just a placeholder in the family of the Indo-European languages. So, it is not surprising to see some people ready to make great efforts to adapt the mod in a real language, and thus bring some dignity.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  14. #14

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Aper View Post
    Yes, it occurred to me later, sorry.
    My rant was not really about this project but the people in Italy (often young and smart) cheering the coming of a translation, or whining because publishers don't plan to do one, as it was such a big deal.
    It's something I've seen my entire life as a gamer, and if it was ok 20 years ago, now it's not, IMO. Just learn your f*ing english, it's quite worth it, I'd say.
    Didn't want to be a jerk, anyway.
    I appreciate you elaborating on that. If that is your experience on the subject, it completely explains (and justifies) your reaction. I made unfounded assumptions about your motivation because I come from the opposite situation; a country in which English has become almost a second language during my lifetime and the common, unfortunate attitude among the youngest adult generation is that no other foreign language has any worth. An increasing number of young people in my country only put effort in English and limit themselves to English-language music, movies, and literature, effectively reinforcing their own (I say false) perception that there is no reason to learn any other language.

    An important notion with languages is that they only become useful to you if you know them at least a little. I don't know German really so I steer clear of most things German; if I did not know better, I could easily state that there is no use to knowing it. However, my friends who do know German continuously enjoy information and entertainment in German, have German-speaking friends that they can meet over a beer with in Hamburg and make use of career opportunities in companies from Germany or ones that are doing business with Germans. I bet that my uncle who did not know English would have said that it was useless to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Honestly, given the absurd amount of text EB2 contains, plus the difficulty of making a good translation (as opposed to the rubbish that passes for newspaper articles and movie dialogue these days), I think it's easier to learn advanced English than to translate this game, or wait for someone else to translate it.
    True words. Most laypeople underestimate the effort needed in translating and overestimate their own capabilities in doing that. Only knowing the source and the target language is not enough for a good result and professionals can immediately tell if a text has been translated word by word by an amateur. Regular players will just feel alienated if the texts do not flow naturally. My expert recommendation is to consciously think of paragraph as the minimum unit. Read a paragraph and understand what has been said. Then look no longer at the source text but express what you just read in a way that is natural to your language instead of emulating the word order and choice of words in the source language. If you find anything you are not 100 % sure of, research instead of making guesses. It is hard work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cohors_Evocata View Post
    We had two people come in to begin work on translating an older version of the mod into Italian some time ago. They made some headway, but quit after a year, it was just too much work. Unfortunately I don't think they ever uploaded any of their work... I wouldn't attempt it without at least four dedicated people, tbh, or simply limit oneself to translating only the most important stuff.
    Excellent advice. It is great that people are enthusiastic about localization of games and mods, and I do not want to discourage anyone as a matter of principle. However, it can be a great undertaking to finish the project in a mod like this and half-assing it is probably not worth it.

    If Haydn91 is to carry on with the task, I wish him/her luck. I cannot help with Italian, but if there is anything else having to do with the process, I will try to keep an eye on the thread and offer assistance.

  15. #15
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    True words. Most laypeople underestimate the effort needed in translating and overestimate their own capabilities in doing that. Only knowing the source and the target language is not enough for a good result and professionals can immediately tell if a text has been translated word by word by an amateur. Regular players will just feel alienated if the texts do not flow naturally. My expert recommendation is to consciously think of paragraph as the minimum unit. Read a paragraph and understand what has been said. Then look no longer at the source text but express what you just read in a way that is natural to your language instead of emulating the word order and choice of words in the source language. If you find anything you are not 100 % sure of, research instead of making guesses. It is hard work.
    That's great advice! As it was mentioned above, though, you'd need about four people doing this at least, to get it done within a reasonable amount of time and by division of labor.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    I appreciate you elaborating on that. If that is your experience on the subject, it completely explains (and justifies) your reaction. I made unfounded assumptions about your motivation because I come from the opposite situation; a country in which English has become almost a second language during my lifetime and the common, unfortunate attitude among the youngest adult generation is that no other foreign language has any worth. An increasing number of young people in my country only put effort in English and limit themselves to English-language music, movies, and literature, effectively reinforcing their own (I say false) perception that there is no reason to learn any other language.

    An important notion with languages is that they only become useful to you if you know them at least a little. I don't know German really so I steer clear of most things German; if I did not know better, I could easily state that there is no use to knowing it. However, my friends who do know German continuously enjoy information and entertainment in German, have German-speaking friends that they can meet over a beer with in Hamburg and make use of career opportunities in companies from Germany or ones that are doing business with Germans. I bet that my uncle who did not know English would have said that it was useless to him.



    True words. Most laypeople underestimate the effort needed in translating and overestimate their own capabilities in doing that. Only knowing the source and the target language is not enough for a good result and professionals can immediately tell if a text has been translated word by word by an amateur. Regular players will just feel alienated if the texts do not flow naturally. My expert recommendation is to consciously think of paragraph as the minimum unit. Read a paragraph and understand what has been said. Then look no longer at the source text but express what you just read in a way that is natural to your language instead of emulating the word order and choice of words in the source language. If you find anything you are not 100 % sure of, research instead of making guesses. It is hard work.



    Excellent advice. It is great that people are enthusiastic about localization of games and mods, and I do not want to discourage anyone as a matter of principle. However, it can be a great undertaking to finish the project in a mod like this and half-assing it is probably not worth it.

    If Haydn91 is to carry on with the task, I wish him/her luck. I cannot help with Italian, but if there is anything else having to do with the process, I will try to keep an eye on the thread and offer assistance.
    Thanks Erken

  17. #17

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    I test these file in my EB 2.35 and works good, exept the climates file, that in game appear again in English and I dont know why.
    This is the first of others release of the EB text file. Now I work on strat files.

    EB 2.35 Italian 0.01

    climates.txt
    climates.xml
    religions.txt
    religions.xml
    export_advise.txt
    export_advise.xml

    EB 2.35 Italiano 0.01.zip

  18. #18

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Hello Haydn91,

    The probleme is coming from a file named "climates.txt.strings.bin", that is missing in your translation.

    For each update of your translation, you will need to add an empty file corresponding to the file you have edited.

    For exemple : climates.txt (the italian version) + an empty version of climates.txt.strings.bin

    At the start of the game, M2TW will detect that climates.txt.strings.bin is empty, and will use climate.txt to create a correct version of this. Because, M2TW use rhe strings.bin to display the text in the game.

    At each update of the game, the team add empty files to make sure that the text files will be correctly create by the game.

    You will find here (http://dl.free.fr/iMhFuQn0i) some empty files in the french translation, you will just have to copy one of thoses files and to change his name.
    Last edited by torf; July 11, 2019 at 12:26 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    Thanks for this advise. I update the version.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Translation Italian

    New fix version

    EB 2.35 Italiano 0.2.zip

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