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Thread: FRANCE

  1. #21

    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    this is from wiki
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Garde Écossaise (French pronunciation: ​[ɡaʁd ekɔsɛz], Scots Guard) was an elite Scottish military unit founded in 1418 by the ValoisCharles VII of France, to be personal bodyguards to the French monarchy. They were assimilated into the Maison du Roi and later formed the first company of the Garde du Corps du Roi (Royal Bodyguard).
    In 1450, King James II sent a company of 24 noble Scots under the command of Patrick de Spens, son of his custodian. This company takes the name of archiers du corps or gardes de la manche. On 31 August 1490, this company, these of Patry Folcart, Thomas Haliday and a part of the company of Robin Petitloch became the first company of archiers de la garde du roi under the command of Guillaume Stuier (Stuart). At the beginning la compagnie écossaise des gardes du corps du roi included 100 gardes du corps (25 bodyguards and 75 archiers). Each bodyguard had four men-at-arms under his command, (a squire, an archer, a cranequinier and a servant), one of them acquired the name of premier homme d'armes du royaume de France. They were finally disbanded in 1830 at the abdication of Charles X.
    getting older

  2. #22
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    Thank you for the information.
    They are therefore bodyguards for the 15th century ... I, who have never yet reached the 14th, I am not ready to see them in my campaign !

  3. #23

    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    Quote Originally Posted by kingman1337 View Post
    Jukoman made an excellent model for these units. Its actually one of my personal favorites.
    Wow! Just looked it up, and the model is indeed great, as well as the other models in the Bulat Steel mod. Would there be any way to get permissions to use these in SSHIP?

    Okay, so according to this link, if Google translate is right, permissions on BS are open, especially for the Scots Guard unit. Though of course should probably check with a native Russian speaker on that first.

  4. #24
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripledot View Post
    Wow! Just looked it up, and the model is indeed great, as well as the other models in the Bulat Steel mod. Would there be any way to get permissions to use these in SSHIP?

    Okay, so according to this link, if Google translate is right, permissions on BS are open, especially for the Scots Guard unit. Though of course should probably check with a native Russian speaker on that first.
    I don't think so, just open the link:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeekaaa View Post
    No!
    Maybe contacting Jukoman would work?

    Besides, I've got dim recollection that the BS was banned on the TWC because of using non-authorised material.
    At some point they created a payable more-advanced version of their mod as well.
    All their pics have a watermark BS215 as well.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; May 28, 2020 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #25
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    That's actually pathetic: Bulat Steel has borrowed materials from many mods and refuses to share his own

    Regarding the Scotts Guard, I really can't see the point to spend time on a late era unit now while there are still numerous one that need to be reworked for earlier periods
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  6. #26

    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    That's actually pathetic: Bulat Steel has borrowed materials from many mods and refuses to share his own

    Regarding the Scotts Guard, I really can't see the point to spend time on a late era unit now while there are still numerous one that need to be reworked for earlier periods
    If it's easy as porting over a unit, I don't see why not do it. Though if the situation re: that mod is true, and it's not possible, that is sad indeed.

  7. #27
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    I know that the process is simple. I just can't see the point to loose time asking around for permission of use, just to implement 1 unit that most players won't ever see in their game
    For now, if people want late units nice models, I'd recommend to update Roma Victrix submod
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  8. #28

    Default Re: FRANCE

    why are all the regions from the south (poitiers, toulouse, bordeaux, etc) independent? weren't they part of the kingdom?

  9. #29
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: FRANCE

    At the start of the 12th century, King Louis VI actually only owned a small area. The county of Toulouse, the duchy of Guyenne, that of Aquitaine and others belong to barons who stand up to him although some normally owe him allegiance. The king will have to fight to consolidate his territory. The game reflects the difficulty of the kingdom of France at that time.

  10. #30

    Default Re: FRANCE

    seems right. so i guess it's more or less the same situation of northern italy (which formally was under the HRE crown)

  11. #31
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: FRANCE

    Absolutely !

  12. #32

    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    I am working on the French family tree, trying to do it as much as possible close to the historical one. As my guidence I took the informations of Thorbjorn from above:

    Here are a few suggestions about the French characers:

    1) Raoul de Valois -if he is Raoul the Valiant as I suspected- should be renamed as Raoul de Vermandois, as he was the count of both and more, but known as the count of Vermandois. He also should be considered a family member, since he is the son of Hugh de Vermandois, and he is the cousin of the current king, Louis. If this character is who I think he is, he should also get a bravery trait, because he was known as Raoul the Valiant.

    2) House of Blois should be removed from the family member status because they aren't related to the Capetians. The closest relation I could find was Thibaut de Blois' niece was married to Raoul of Vermandois, couis of the king- until their divorce and subsequent war between the Houses of Blois and Capet. At this point in the game, they are family members but they don't show up in the family member tree because they are NOT. They still use up space and because Thibaut has his own children, the royal House of Capet gets less children. This is caused by the game engine as explained in the game. They just leech off space and all of their offspring have the trait "father was treacherous" which drastically inreases the unrest in any settlement they govern, because Thibaut just can't be satisfied with the County of Troyes and wait to die.
    This brings me to another point about the rebellious House of Blois. I don't understand why they are part of the French Kingdom. Thibaut de Blois should be a rebel general with a moderate garrison in Troyes. It is both more historical and practical, as he rebels against both Louis VI (current king) and Louis VII. He is always conspiring when he isn't downright hostile, and he supports his broher Stephan de Blois(soon to be King of England in the game) when France goes to war against England.
    I could talk on and on about the rebellious, decieving rascals that is House of Blois, who tries to gain power in every opportunity not just in France but in Englad too, like the slithering snakes they are.
    Ok, enough about de Blois.

    3) Actually, no. I have one more argument about the character I most hate in this game. Even if you let Troyes rebel, because Thibaut is building his own empire there, he dies if the city revolts because he has -200 movement points and therefore can't even get kicked out of the settlement. The guy can't even get what he wants... He doesn't pose a threat to anyone because you can just lower the taxes and keep a few milita in there to keep him at bay, or just remove him completely from the settlement and wait for him to rebel alone, only to crush his skull housing his little plotting brain. He makes no sense from RPG point of view because he can't even rebel and take the city for himself, and no sense from normal gameplay POV because it is so easy to deal with him. It is just a really bothering waste of time, waiting him to die while rejecting every single marriage offer to his sons.

    4) I don't know why Louis the Fat fears the English, as he went into conflict with them and not just sit in Paris like a coward. The most possible reason is the Battle of Bremule, which French disastrously lost, and the king himself lost his horse and banner to the enemy, escaping only with his life. This event didn't stop the French king from taking to the field however, so I don't think he was "afraid". Maybe I have missed something. Also Louis may start the game with a "grief stricken" trait, since he lost his firstborn Philip of France at the age of 15, and this event apparently devastated him.

    5) Fleury Capet was married to Alice de Nanges and had a daughter named Elisabeth de Nanges before he died, so maybe a princess of royal blood could be added if found necessary.

    6)As I've mentioned in my posts above, Philipe Capet shouldn't be the heir, since Louis would never make him one. Increasing the age of Louis' son Philipe by a couple of years and making him an actual character instead of a child, this problem can be fixed.

    7) During the struggle between England and France to put an ally count on the seat of Flanders, Guillame de Nevers -our friendly, old, crusader, noble general- convinced Louis to back a guy against the English candidate. That is how the conflisct began. Because of this action, Guillame was imprisoned by certain somebody, can you guess who it was? Yes it is Thibaut obviously.

    I have failed to find any good replacements for the characters I suggested to remove. Any advice would be aprreciated.

    I've forgoten to cite my sources. Main source I used was the p. 637-659 of Cambridge Medieval History Volume V. I also used some less dependable sources like Wikipedia, etc.
    If a mod can merge this post to the other, that'd be great.
    I have two questions, maybe somebody will be able to help:

    1. I have encountered a problem, trying to include Raoul of Vermandois into the tree. The problem is how to keep his last name and place at the same time in Capet family tree? According to the game mechanics, he receives the last name of his father, who receives his last name from his father - which is Capet, as the whole dynasty.
    There are few ways of keeping his last name but none of them satisfactory. One is to marry him with the daughter of Capet and keep his last name de Vermandois. Another is to create a first name - Raoul of Vermandois and the game will add the last name Capet from his father. I am writing this post after hours of research on forums and I didn't really find any answer.
    2. I noticed also there are some bynames in the descr_strat.txt and one of them is exactly de Vermandois.. Is it possible to use them somehow for the starting family tree ?

    I am planing to fix the family trees of all the factions, if I solve this problem the work should go much faster..
    Last edited by Macaras; December 30, 2020 at 03:43 PM.

  13. #33
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    France roster has been updated over the last months by @kostic a lot - see the KCC webpage.

    Given @kostic work on making available units for all factions, I've recently also taken a look and I've:
    - updated mercenary pools - they're now much more complicated than the used to be - and depend on time and events;
    - updated starting armies and buildings, added neutral armies in the provinces around;
    - extended the Notre Dame wonder to 7 levels and updated a special mechanism for to make it buildable.

    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; January 20, 2022 at 04:37 AM.

  14. #34
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [F] - FRANCE

    Impressive recruitmen in the Late Era in Paris:


  15. #35

    Default Re: FRANCE

    @kostic Being your French, have you thought about adding or modifying any AOR unique to the France region?
    My proposal after having played several mods and read historical documents is to review the Burgundians, Gascons (Occitans) and perhaps also Tolosa.

    How about creating a mercenary AOR unit called Gascon crossbowmen recruitable in the south of France, or also some Burgundian Coustillier or Toulouse swordsman sergeants.

    Have you thought about it? it would be similar to the current Breton unit we have in the game.
    My idea is that sship can represent through the military units (graphic and visual) the different subfactions or cultural differences within the same faction. This way we would have more variety in the game and not so generic.

    -In Spain it is something similar with the Basques, Catalans and Andalusians in the game, I think that the current unit called "Catalans" similar to a javelinman, could be modified by another type of Catalan unit that is more sailor (similar to the Italian marinae).
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  16. #36
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: FRANCE

    It's a possibility. May be later. There are other priorities. The concept of AOR units to make factions more specific is something to explore I think.

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