HUNGARY

[Jurand of Cracow]

Well, this is a kind of a problem. The mod starts in 12th century and one cannot differentiate on the names over the centuries, sorry. We need to find a middle ground.
The only way I see to make it more flexible is to externally "overwrite" the files in the middle of the game. I think @kostic would need the same for implementation of his new costumes for 13c. so maybe it'd be the way ahead.

[Macaras]

Yeah, but what about getting rid of the "nembol" altogether? It looks really bad when in any name there's the same description. I'm much more in favour, to be frank...

I side with you Jurand, "nembol" looks strange and unnecessary, so shall we remove them?

[Jurand of Cracow]

I side with you Jurand, "nembol" looks strange and unnecessary, so shall we remove them?

Just do it.

[shikaka]

Well, this is a kind of a problem. The mod starts in 12th century and one cannot differentiate on the names over the centuries, sorry. We need to find a middle ground.
The only way I see to make it more flexible is to externally "overwrite" the files in the middle of the game. I think @kostic would need the same for implementation of his new costumes for 13c. so maybe it'd be the way ahead.

I don't think it is a real problem to be honest. Pretty sure 99% of the players are not aware of this...

I mean, can you imagine that someone goes "What the hell, it is already 1400 in game, and my hungarian characters still use clan names instead of family names?"


If you want to keep clan names, your list is already good enough. But if nitpicking, it is only valid to about mid 14th century.
If you want to have a list of family names, I can compile a list of ~20-30 noble families for you, but those are valid mostly from the end of the 14th century and on.

[j.a.luna]

I don't think it is a real problem to be honest. Pretty sure 99% of the players are not aware of this...

I mean, can you imagine that someone goes "What the hell, it is already 1400 in game, and my hungarian characters still use clan names instead of family names?"


If you want to keep clan names, your list is already good enough. But if nitpicking, it is only valid to about mid 14th century.
If you want to have a list of family names, I can compile a list of ~20-30 noble families for you, but those are valid mostly from the end of the 14th century and on.

Yes i agree, most of the players dont worry about pretty historical names... I think that is most important the visuals aspects as historical units models, historical unit rosters, scripts...

[Jurand of Cracow]

I don't think it is a real problem to be honest. Pretty sure 99% of the players are not aware of this...

I mean, can you imagine that someone goes "What the hell, it is already 1400 in game, and my hungarian characters still use clan names instead of family names?"


If you want to keep clan names, your list is already good enough. But if nitpicking, it is only valid to about mid 14th century.
If you want to have a list of family names, I can compile a list of ~20-30 noble families for you, but those are valid mostly from the end of the 14th century and on.

I agree with you. I'd put that figure at 99,99%. It's dropped recently as you've explained us that difference .
Let's leave this as it is now, and save your time for any future need we'd have for Hungary in the future

[shikaka]

ad 1. - very good.
ad 2. - @Shikaka, so was he 48 or 17 ? Or these were different guys?

Hi, I missed this!

Historically Macaras is correct, he was not 40ish. But it is was totally intended, and a gamey way to force a historical outcome.


Preferred historical outcome:
Béla the Blind, born in 1109, rule 1131-1141
Géza II, born in 1130, rule 1141-1162

The problems are visible:
- Béla's historical heir is only 1 y/o at game start
- if Béla dies in game before Géza matures, the placeholder heir (Saul) will become ruler, which is unhistorical
- especially bad, if Saul become king by accident, rules for long (while Géza is already mature) OR establishes a ruling branch of the dynasty


My original (unhistorically old) Saul was proposed the way it is because it would be preferable that Géza can take the throne after his father dies ASAP. This is possible with Saul being older than correct (he should preferably die by the time Géza matures), and also barren (so that he doesn't establish a dynasty)

[Macaras]

Shikaka, so Saul is 48 right now, wife is barren and horrid and he is a bastard heir and hypochondriac, what a life!! I think the real Saul is turning in his tomb right now, hopefully he will not haunt neither us, nor the SSHIP players

[shikaka]

Shikaka, so Saul is 48 right now, wife is barren and horrid and he is a bastard heir and hypochondriac, what a life!! I think the real Saul is turning in his tomb right now, hopefully he will not haunt neither us, nor the SSHIP players

The RL Saul disappeared from the history books very soon after István II died. (who originally named Saul his heir for a brief period)

Either Jelena and Belus were very efficient in keeping him at bay until Géza matured, or maybe he didn't have royal ambitions at all.
Which is actually not unheared of in hungarian history: when László 1 died without a heir, the crown went to his nephew - 20 y/o Kálmán - not his brother Lampert. Lampert was about 45 y/o at that point, so young Kálmán was not an obvious choice. Also, Salamon's brothers (Dávid and György) never raised an army to support their claim: Dávid became an abbot, György went as far as Scotland and never returned (he joined the company of Edgar Aetheling when the saxon left his hungarian exile)

[Brezkimra]

Dear SSHIP team!
Anyone in the team want remodelling the Hungarian Kingdom's cavalry units?
If useful, I can share some historical based contemporary artistic paintings and 3D models about Hungarian Kingdom's warriors. Would you look the pictures?

[kostic]

Indeed, that interests me. I have not yet planned the overhaul of the Hungarian units, but if there is anything I can do, I might as well do it from historically serious documentation !

[Brezkimra]

Indeed, that interests me. I have not yet planned the overhaul of the Hungarian units, but if there is anything I can do, I might as well do it from historically serious documentation !

I will start collecting medieval hungarian warfare sources ( photos of: weapons, frescos, altar paintings, statues, etc.), and I will read lot of describes about the topic. It is a longest work. Until I have not enough material and more knowledge, I share some historical based contemporary artistic paintings and 3D models about Hungarian Kingdom's warriors.

[kostic]

What I do on my side is to modify the current units in the game so that they correspond to the historical starting period; that is to say the 12th century.
I am not changing the names, nor am I adding new units as that would require modifying several files that other SSHIP modders use.


Otherwise I reassure you: I'm not at all good in English either. I am French and I use an online translator ...

[Brezkimra]

Hungarian Horse Archers -XII.th century:
Medium armored, melee capable horse archers


Heavy Cavalry / Knights -XII.th century:

[Brezkimra]

Heavy Cavalry / Knights -XIII.th century:
Some of them wear horse barding and horse armor (chain, felt or leather).



Coat of Arms and Banners XII.-XIII.th century:

[Brezkimra]

Cuman Horse Archers from ~1240 to ~1400.:
Light missile cavalry. Use bow, and the secondary weapons: sabre or small mace.


Pecheneg Horse Archers:
Missile cavalry. Use bow, and the secondary weapons: sabre or small mace.They will be available in small numbers till the Mongol invasion (1241.).

[Brezkimra]

King and Military flags -XII-XIII.th century:

[Brezkimra]

[Brezkimra]

Heavy Cavalry / Knights -XIV.th century:
The visored helmets was not so popular. The secomdary weapons were the straight sword, axe, and mace.
The horse barding, and horse armour was rare.

[Brezkimra]

Coat of Arms and Banners in the XV.th century: