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Thread: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

  1. #101
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Generally speaking, the Syrian government and the YPG liberated the territories lying west and east of Euphrates respectively. Everyone did his part in eliminating ISIL, with the Iraqi regular army and the various militias dedicating the largest number of resources, in order to recapture the most important strongholds of the terrorist group. Arguing which foreign power attacked ISIL more decisively is rather futile, as such a question cannot be measured objectively, it does not take into account each state's relative strength and wealth and it also loses the main point of the international intervention, which is the common victory against one of the most bloodthirsty and sectarian groups that ever emerged in the Fertile Crescent.

  2. #102

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Source Obama supported ISIS? And last time i checked the Syrian Kurds took far more territory from ISIS than the Syrians who managed to lost Palmyra twice. Meanwhile the Kurds took half of Dier ez Zor, Raqqa, Tal abyad, Manbij, Tabaq (where the Syrian Army had 200 of its soldiers massacred)
    Obama did support them at least indirectly. The difference between ISIS or any other jihadists like Al-Nusra, FSA or AQ was rather superficial. So yeah, Syrians managed to reclaim their territory of jihadists mostly thanks to Russia and Iran. Latter also helped Iraq deal with same problem a great deal as well.

  3. #103
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    In what is a significant escalation of this crisis, the Iranians have boarded a British registered oil tanker in international waters and have taken control.
    Iran 'seizes British-flagged oil tanker'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383
    A British-flagged oil tanker has been seized in the Gulf by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Iran media say.
    The owners of the Stena Impero, which was bound for Saudi Arabia, say they have been unable to contact the vessel and it is "heading north towards Iran".
    The company says there are 23 personnel on board and it was approached by "unidentified small crafts and a helicopter" in the Strait of Hormuz.
    Quite why there was no protection of this vessel, when Iran threatened that they would undertake such an action is beyond me! It even has London written on the back of the boat in large letters.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Expect more siezures of Iranian ships. And less warning shots from British warships.

  5. #105
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Expect more siezures of Iranian ships. And less warning shots from British warships.
    British Warships? They even have those anymore. Lol. Glad their boat got taken personally.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1031866

    Apparently its two tankers seized now. Second tanker is Liberian flagged but operated by a UK company.

    This is only making Iran look bad.

  7. #107
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1031866

    Apparently its two tankers seized now. Second tanker is Liberian flagged but operated by a UK company.

    This is only making Iran look bad.
    It's shambolic why Iran has been able to take two tankers anyway, what do they have gun boats! Major questions must be asked why the UK has provided so little protection for a threat which was known about more than a week ago.

    All Iran is doing here though, is making the situation a lot worse for themselves, as no country will sympathise with acts of piracy.

  8. #108

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    It's shambolic why Iran has been able to take two tankers anyway, what do they have gun boats! Major questions must be asked why the UK has provided so little protection for a threat which was known about more than a week ago.

    All Iran is doing here though, is making the situation a lot worse for themselves, as no country will sympathise with acts of piracy.
    Answer, Cameron's cuts. Gone are the days of Tony Blair, the wanabee warlord.
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  9. #109
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Wait, help me out here: I've learned in this thread that freedom of navigation is worth nothing and every country has the right to seize ships in their waters. At least that's when Iran's ships were concerned.

    Even when I pointed out that Iran will be able to use that same logic for those doing it to them, you guys were adamant. Now all of a sudden that's changed and you're upset about "piracy"?

    Hm, who was the first using those words? Oh right. The Ayatollah:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9007421.html



    Now I'm sure none of you people here are hypocrites. So I'm sure you have an explanation as to why you want a double standard.

    And explain to me what gives them the right to park their ships in Iranian territorial waters while you're at it. I thought it was Kerry stating that 19th century politics was soooooo out of fashion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    No one cares what Derc has to say.

  10. #110

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Wait, help me out here: I've learned in this thread that freedom of navigation is worth nothing and every country has the right to seize ships in their waters. At least that's when Iran's ships were concerned.

    Even when I pointed out that Iran will be able to use that same logic for those doing it to them, you guys were adamant. Now all of a sudden that's changed and you're upset about "piracy"?

    Hm, who was the first using those words? Oh right. The Ayatollah:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9007421.html



    Now I'm sure none of you people here are hypocrites. So I'm sure you have an explanation as to why you want a double standard.

    And explain to me what gives them the right to park their ships in Iranian territorial waters while you're at it. I thought it was Kerry stating that 19th century politics was soooooo out of fashion?
    I can't disagree with you. The entire mess is down to a racist President who couldn't stand an arrangement made by Obama and some nutjobs itching for a war no one has asked for. Pandering to these prejudices isn't worth one single life. Why the EU doesn't tell Trump to eff off with his sanctions Lord knows. I honestly don't know what the UK was thinking of when it seized that tanker, without taking the precaution to enhance its presence in the Gulf.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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  11. #111

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    To me this looks more like both sides making moves to turn the price of oil up...
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  12. #112

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    I was too young when the last great american middle eastern adventure happened. I would certainly be interesting to follow an actual war on the news. And yeah, people will die, that's bad, don't do it trump. but aside from that, yeah it would be interesting.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Wait, help me out here: I've learned in this thread that freedom of navigation is worth nothing and every country has the right to seize ships in their waters. At least that's when Iran's ships were concerned.

    Even when I pointed out that Iran will be able to use that same logic for those doing it to them, you guys were adamant. Now all of a sudden that's changed and you're upset about "piracy"?

    Hm, who was the first using those words? Oh right. The Ayatollah:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9007421.html



    Now I'm sure none of you people here are hypocrites. So I'm sure you have an explanation as to why you want a double standard.

    And explain to me what gives them the right to park their ships in Iranian territorial waters while you're at it. I thought it was Kerry stating that 19th century politics was soooooo out of fashion?
    Huh? Are you saying the British tanker was in Iranian waters when it was seized?

  14. #114
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I can't disagree with you. The entire mess is down to a racist President who couldn't stand an arrangement made by Obama and some nutjobs itching for a war no one has asked for. Pandering to these prejudices isn't worth one single life. Why the EU doesn't tell Trump to eff off with his sanctions Lord knows. I honestly don't know what the UK was thinking of when it seized that tanker, without taking the precaution to enhance its presence in the Gulf.
    lol, what a crock of . Sad part is enough of your joke of a country think this way and you all wonder why you find yourselves in the situation you're currently in. Sad all around.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  15. #115

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    lol, what a crock of . Sad part is enough of your joke of a country think this way and you all wonder why you find yourselves in the situation you're currently in. Sad all around.
    Bollocks. All that treasure and effort spent on pointlessly invading the wrong three countries in the War on Terror when the main instigator (Saudi ) was left unscatched could have funded our armed forces at 1990s levels for years. Prove me wrong.

    We all know that the Iran crisis is due to Trump pulling out of a servicable deal for no reason other than jealously of Obama's legacy.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  16. #116

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Compared to Trump (at least so far), Obama doesn't really have a positive legacy (unless you can count serving as air support for terrorist groups in Libya as such). So Trump can't really be jealous, since there is nothing to be jealous for.
    The whole thing with Iran has more to do with pro-Israeli lobbies and neocon fifth column within GOP.

  17. #117
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Compared to Trump (at least so far), Obama doesn't really have a positive legacy (unless you can count serving as air support for terrorist groups in Libya as such). So Trump can't really be jealous, since there is nothing to be jealous for.
    He did in the Iran deal. And Pushing the Democratic agenda on Health care forward a goal of the Party since Truman's day. Stabilized the economy over the hilarious objects of Republicans who worried about debit then but not for a tax for the wealthy while rolling back regulation on the banks that created the mess.

    (unless you can count serving as air support for terrorist groups in Libya as such).
    Really no point in engaging you on this point you just probably cut and past an answer any number of threads or do have a macro for that?
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  18. #118
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    lol, what a crock of . Sad part is enough of your joke of a country think this way and you all wonder why you find yourselves in the situation you're currently in. Sad all around.
    How do figure. Trump tore up an agreement that had managed to get both Europe and Russia and China on side and that was in fact effective at its goals. He had no justification based on the agreement for that action. As result there is no particular reason for any of the co signatory nations or Iran to trust this administration on any new deal. The UK action was based on questionable legalities and was in fact probably a bad move especially when the UK did not seem to have assets in place in the Persian gulf region to deal with the obvious blow back. I can't really see how your reply is a fair response to what you quoted.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #119

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    He did in the Iran deal. And Pushing the Democratic agenda on Health care forward a goal of the Party since Truman's day. Stabilized the economy over the hilarious objects of Republicans who worried about debit then but not for a tax for the wealthy while rolling back regulation on the banks that created the mess.
    If US didn't spend trillions on military-industrial complex, they'd have enough in budget to provide healthcare to the population. Obama did nothing to address the internal structural problems within the country, he is only viewed positively by the media because of his complacency with corporate oligopolies and foreign lobbies (that happen to own that media).
    Really no point in engaging you on this point you just probably cut and past an answer any number of threads or do have a macro for that?
    Because you believe that having NATO serve as air support for terrorists in Libya was a good thing, right? Something about Qaddaffi's plans to "kill his own people" that were never proven to exist or what's the new general party line on that? Russia stole and hid the evidence?

  20. #120

    Default Re: 2019 Iran - USA War... Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Wait, help me out here: I've learned in this thread that freedom of navigation is worth nothing and every country has the right to seize ships in their waters. At least that's when Iran's ships were concerned.

    Even when I pointed out that Iran will be able to use that same logic for those doing it to them, you guys were adamant. Now all of a sudden that's changed and you're upset about "piracy"?

    Hm, who was the first using those words? Oh right. The Ayatollah:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9007421.html



    Now I'm sure none of you people here are hypocrites. So I'm sure you have an explanation as to why you want a double standard.

    And explain to me what gives them the right to park their ships in Iranian territorial waters while you're at it. I thought it was Kerry stating that 19th century politics was soooooo out of fashion?
    No, the same argument doesn't apply. Iranian military vessels are approaching tankers outside of Iranian territorial waters and coercing them into changing course:


    Source


    Source

    An audio recording of British and Iranian naval authorities radioing instructions to a UK-flagged oil tanker just moments before it was seized in the Strait of Hormuz surfaced on Sunday, amid a mounting diplomatic spat between the two countries...

    The exchange begins with an Iranian vessel telling the Stena Impero to change direction: "If you obey you will be safe, alter your course."

    A British Royal Navy frigate identifies itself in the recording as HMS Montrose, and advises the Stena Impero that its passage must not be disrupted.

    "As you are conducting transit passage in a recognized international strait, under international law your passage must not be impaired, impeded, obstructed or hampered."
    Source

    Evidently the Montrose wasn't close enough to directly intervene this time.

    Nevertheless, I'm fairly sure that for the US, Iran's predictable retaliation is a feature of the plan rather than a bug. Although, the Brits certainly appear under-prepared for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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