View Poll Results: For which party would you vote?

Voters
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  • New Democracy (Right-wing)

    1 8.33%
  • SYRIZA (Center-left)

    1 8.33%
  • KINAL (Center)

    0 0%
  • KKE (Communism)

    2 16.67%
  • Golden Dawn (Neo-Nazism)

    1 8.33%
  • Greek Solution (Far-right)

    2 16.67%
  • MeRa25 (Left-wing)

    4 33.33%
  • Union of Centrists (Center)

    0 0%
  • Other (Please, specify)

    1 8.33%
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Thread: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

  1. #1
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Following the disappointing results during the recent European elections, SYRIZA, the ruling party called for slightly premature legislative elections, which will take place on July 7. The polls and the results of the European elections leave no doubt about the winner, as New Democracy, the main opposition party, is projected to win with a difference equal to 10%. However, its absolute majority in the party is not guaranteed, so it is quite possible that New Democracy will choose to form a coalition with another party (probably with KINAL), in order to stabilise its government. To give some background, following the debt crisis, SYRIZA, previously a negligible party with Eurocommunist roots, watched its influence increase immensely, as the former largest parties, New Democracy and PASOK (essentially the predecessor of KINAL) suffered from a severe loss of popularity, as they initiated a great number of austerity measures.

    However, in 2015, the populist message of SYRIZA was exposed, as it predictably failed to keep its promise on ending austerity, while it basically ignored the results of the 2015 referendum, which provided our political vocabulary with a new word, kolotoumba. As a result, its popularity gradually declined, although it has succeeding in maintaining its position as the second most powerful party. Below there is a list with the major participants:



    New Democracy: The traditional right-wing party, which had formed several governments since the collapse of the military junta, but whose power has been reduced since the debt crisis. Right now, however, it's by far the most popular group in Greece.
    SYRIZA: In spite of its radical origins, it has evolved into the most important party of the center-left camp. According to the polls, it will easily get the second position.
    KINAL: Frankly, it's the renamed (for public relations purposes) version of the formerly strongest party in Greece, PASOK, which however lost the vast majority of its supporters to SYRIZA.
    KKE: The Communist Party of Greece is composed of old-school Marxists and enjoys the honour of being the oldest active party, established after the end of WWI. Its influence has remained stable at approximately 5% for several decades.
    Golden Dawn: A Neo-Nazi group, with links to the underworld and a murderous record. It rose to prominence due to the decreased quality of life in Greece, but its influence has also taken a hit, mainly because its leadership faces a trial for its crimes.
    Greek Solution: A very young and far-right party, whose leader, Velopoulos, is probably the quintessence of salesman. His political career includes a passage from three different parties, including PASOK and New Democracy, but has finally settled as an ultra-conservative salesman devoded to tele-marketing. The Greek Alex Jones is famous for selling to its audience authentic letters written by the hand of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ himself!
    MeRa25: A left-wing party, which was established by Varoufakis, the short-lived Minister of Finances, during the 2015 debacle. It probably attracts the sympathy of whoever still remains loyal to SYRIZA's anti-austerity measures.



    Finally, there are also three parties with a presence in the current parliament, Union of Centrists, Independent Greeks and River (?!), which are respectively centrist, far-right and centrist. All of them being product of the debt crisis, they have zero hopes of reentering the Parliament and, as a matter of fact, the last two have even refused to participate in the elections. In conclusion, I believe that the situation in Greece has relatively stabilised, as the financial collapse has been replaced by either stagnation or an anaemic growth. A great number of superfluous parties is certainly at the brink of extinction, while the most remarkable change is that SYRIZA has replaced PASOK as the leader of liberalism. However, prosperity is far from being restored, which explains why SYRIZA's numbers have fallen so dramatically and why more professional charlatans, like Velopoulos, may hope to return to the Parliament. If the economy improves, then the political establishment will normalise completely, but if the fragile economy of Greece fails to recover, then populism may rise its ugly head again.

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    I strongly disagree with some of the definitions of the parties in the left-right spectrum. It should be noted that the placement seems to be based on the opinion of the Original Poster or perhaps some left-leaning sources. I recommend to everyone to check the Wikipedia and the English versions of these parties as well as check what they support instead of basing it in the definitions of the Opening Post.


    Now, My opinion on the parties:
    - ND is a mixed bag of Center-right to right politicians, but mostly center-right under a large umbrella to catch some centrists and what remains of the "mid-right" people. They are encompassing traditional center-right and rightwing politicians and their leader is supposed to be center-right liberal (not USA definition of liberal) but against multi-culti. However, he is a complete idiot. Don't be fooled by the uni he attended, the man is probably more stupid than Bush 2. He is also a crook but has been so far been kept away from many scandals because his relatives are not stupid enough to allow him to expose himself. Not that he didn't manage to get involved with some corruption stuff, but it is, so far, deniable things like "did he or didn't he and if he did, was it so bad?"
    The rest of the party has a few good politicians, a few tolerable ones and many crooks, loons and Crooks & Loons combination, like the populist TV-salesman Adonis. Also each time a big drug bust in the Western Crete is stopped, a couple of certain ND Politicians \ Lawyers of drug dealers are behind it.

    - SYRIZA is a mixed bag of Leftwings and far leftwings with a recent influx of a few center-leftwings. They are not a center-left party. They have mellowed out from the anarchocommunist identity they had in 2012 but they are leftwings, anti-authoritarian and multi-culti. The are a mixed bag of traitors, corruptocrats from PASOK, loons, crooks and perverts and they have a healthy dose of people that are all those combined, like our own Cretan Polakis.
    They are the worse government we had since the dictatorship, even worse than PASOK government.
    They are a reminder to us all why being called "leftwing" was considered an insult in the past, which is the only good thing they've done.

    - PASOK I mean "KINAL", is center-left to left and not center. Thanks to SYRIZA, they have managed to be the 2nd worse government (1985-1988) since the dictatorship, but it took huge efforts from SYRIZA to accomplish this, it was not an easy feat. They are entrenched corruptocrats but they have lost much of their power that fled to SYRIZA because PASOK was forced to lower their huge salaries. Like ND, they include a few good politicians and the usual majority of crooks, loons and both but they have more crooks and less loons.

    - KKE is Communists but the 1950s kind. They promise me that they are not going to push for re-education camps or voter suppression tactics. The people that promise me that take part in voter suppression tactics as the Communist Youth has sent harbor workers and construction workers to my university to beat the crap out of a different leftwing youth a few years ago during a university vote about occupying the uni to protest some law. These lads also showed up, with covered faces, to interrupt student elections of the Dean (students used to vote for Dean) by stealing and breaking open the ballot box from one of the departments that was known to vote for the "wrong" choice. Members of the Communist Youth in Chania defended the act.
    They are a mix of idealists that I respect although I disgree with, harmless idiots of a bygone era and dangerous extremists. Many murderous terrorists in my country have been in KKE or its affiliates.

    - Golden Dawn is a mix of Neonazis and actual Nazis. I mean, people that support Hitler, have written eulogies to him, collect and wear the paraphernalia and give the Heil Hi... I mean the Dorian Salute in Mussolini's grave.
    Surprisingly, not all of their politicians deny the Holocaust. There are some local lads that praise it. I kid you not. "For all the bad things Hitler did to Greece, at least he got rid of the Jews and hit the communists hard" have said two local up-and-comer politicians in Chania to my face. One of them was not stupid, mind you. Just downright evil.
    Also, they murder people.
    A great many of their supporters are disgruntled Greeks that want to scare the other parties. A great many of the RIGHTWING terrorists are obviously supporting Golden Dawn. Many of the local mob muscle is affiliated with Golden Dawn or was. One of them and his gang were actually supporting Golden Dawn even in the days where GD was an unheard entity of 0.02%

    - Greek Solution: ???? Is this a joke? Why are they in this list? They are not far-right, they are a mix of alt-right and stupidity and they will have no presence or influence in politics even in the tiny chance that they will slip in the parliament. I have no respect for Alex Jones, but I would insult him as much to compare him with these guys.

    - MEra25: I wouldn't call them leftwing; they are globalists. They have staff from both sides of the spectrum politically including Free Market stuff that is beyond ND. They are a party I strongly disagree with as they are progressives, Multi-culty and globalists aaaand... too much Free Market IMO. As a center-right financially I want a little government supervision, and I don't want corporate entities to have as much power as these guys will give them.

    - Union of Center: I actually think these guys, led by a loon and including many non-entity people that have done nothing (which is better than doing bad things) and some crooks (That joined as means to get in power to steal) will again enter the parliament bolsted by what remains of Potami (River).
    Last edited by alhoon; June 18, 2019 at 08:40 PM.
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  3. #3
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    I think it is a thread in bad taste, Abdul. I mean if you only cared about the election, you didn't have to present to us your rather biased view of the parties
    Anyway, maybe the mudpit is always like that - haven't been here in months, and likely won't return for months.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  4. #4
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I think it is a thread in bad taste, Abdul. I mean if you only cared about the election, you didn't have to present to us your rather biased view of the parties
    Anyway, maybe the mudpit is always like that - haven't been here in months, and likely won't return for months.
    I think it has been years since you posted on Greek politics.
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  5. #5
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Greek politics sounds awful. I don’t like the sound of any of those parties from what Abdul and Alhoon have posted.

    Also it’s clear moderation is biased when they disagree on politics
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Makes me think when I share my porridge with Cyclops Jnr every morning what I'm really doing is celebrating twin genocide-by-replacement events. "The oats represent the Borging of Mesolithic Europeans, the milk is for the Yamnaya rapist-warriors, and the salt is the tears of their victims. We add honey at the end because screw the bees, right?"

  6. #6
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Also it’s clear moderation is biased when they disagree on politics
    Of course

    Not sure about the public vote. I think Abdul did well there, cause otherwise there might be trolling ^_^
    If i vote i will vote the same as in the euro elections. ND. Not because i think they aren't garbage, but since there isn't anything else atm.
    Btw, for better or worse, Nd is "center-right". It has a few clowns that are even reactionary left. It just is the established party of the right.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  7. #7
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Maybe I missed it, but I have no idea who is eurosceptic or europhile, liberal or socialist, pro-positive discrimination, anti-war, pro free speech, pro-healthcare... etc etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Makes me think when I share my porridge with Cyclops Jnr every morning what I'm really doing is celebrating twin genocide-by-replacement events. "The oats represent the Borging of Mesolithic Europeans, the milk is for the Yamnaya rapist-warriors, and the salt is the tears of their victims. We add honey at the end because screw the bees, right?"

  8. #8
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Maybe I missed it, but I have no idea who is eurosceptic or europhile, liberal or socialist, pro-positive discrimination, anti-war, pro free speech, pro-healthcare... etc etc.
    Of course you missed it, cause the op wasn't meaning to include any actual info, just post a lunatic of a fringe party for reasons

    Anti war: either all, or all apart from GD & GS. Those two together seem to be having at most a combined force of 7-8%.
    Euro-sceptic: KKE (communist), GD, GS (i suppose so; GS is unlikely to even enter parliament, so it doesn't matter)
    Socialist (at least in name) Kinal (old Pasok). Maybe also that Varoufakis party (Day25). Syriza is more Venezuelan style.
    Liberal: ND (i would include the Centrist union, but again it is polling at 1,5% so it shouldn't be included at all).
    pro free-speech and pro-health care: I suppose all parties.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  9. #9
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    @alhoon, I think you are very harsh on your criticism about almost every party, with the exception of the Golden Dawn's Neo-Nazis. Describing the majority of parties as utterly lunatic seems a bit hyperbolic, to be sincere. By the way, can you cite any article verifying that former members of CPG or its "affiliates" were murderous terrorists. Sounds quite extreme, but I have not found any corroborating information in Wikipedia. Regarding the Greek Solution, I mentioned the party, because Jesus' letters certainly added a spicy flavour to the discussion and secondly because all the polls seem to agree that Velopoulos has a very high chance of surpassing the threshold of 3%, as he easily did in the European elections. Therefore, I'm not as optimist as you and Kyriakos. Moreover, a professional opportunist like Velopoulos will gladly join a right-wing coalition under New Democracy, in order to gain for himself a prestigious and potentially lucrative ministerial position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I think it is a thread in bad taste, Abdul. I mean if you only cared about the election, you didn't have to present to us your rather biased view of the parties .
    So, how exactly are my descriptions biased? Please elaborate. I classified New Democracy as right-wing, because many of its prominent officials have a far-right past, like the vice-president already mentioned by alhoon, who used to promote pseudoscience (despite serving as Minister of Health) from his channel and sell Antisemitic books. Apart from Georgiadis, there are more party officials, like Voridis and Plevris with a violent record.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Maybe I missed it, but I have no idea who is eurosceptic or europhile, liberal or socialist, pro-positive discrimination, anti-war, pro free speech, pro-healthcare... etc etc.
    Euro-scepticism is probably limited to Greek Solution, Golden Dawn and the Communist Party of Greece. However, if I remember correctly, only the latter has endorsed the truly radical approach of exiting the Union, as the other two have moderated their rhetoric and simply advocate for a "complete renovation of the EU, according to patriotic benefits". Despite the issues Brussels' policies and the common currency may create, Greece has benefitted immensely from the net contributions, which is presumably why the concept of Grexit is so unpopular in the country.

  10. #10
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    only the latter has endorsed the truly radical approach of exiting the Union
    Independence. How radical. I weep for Norway and Switzerland being controlled by radicals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Makes me think when I share my porridge with Cyclops Jnr every morning what I'm really doing is celebrating twin genocide-by-replacement events. "The oats represent the Borging of Mesolithic Europeans, the milk is for the Yamnaya rapist-warriors, and the salt is the tears of their victims. We add honey at the end because screw the bees, right?"

  11. #11
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    @alhoon, I think you are very harsh on your criticism about almost every party, with the exception of the Golden Dawn's Neo-Nazis. Describing the majority of parties as utterly lunatic seems a bit hyperbolic, to be sincere. By the way, can you cite any article verifying that former members of CPG or its "affiliates" were murderous terrorists. Sounds quite extreme, but I have not found any corroborating information in Wikipedia. Regarding the Greek Solution, I mentioned the party, because Jesus' letters certainly added a spicy flavour to the discussion and secondly because all the polls seem to agree that Velopoulos has a very high chance of surpassing the threshold of 3%, as he easily did in the European elections. Therefore, I'm not as optimist as you and Kyriakos. Moreover, a professional opportunist like Velopoulos will gladly join a right-wing coalition under New Democracy, in order to gain for himself a prestigious and potentially lucrative ministerial position.

    So, how exactly are my descriptions biased? Please elaborate. I classified New Democracy as right-wing, because many of its prominent officials have a far-right past, like the vice-president already mentioned by alhoon, who used to promote pseudoscience (despite serving as Minister of Health) from his channel and sell Antisemitic books. Apart from Georgiadis, there are more party officials, like Voridis and Plevris with a violent record.

    Euro-scepticism is probably limited to Greek Solution, Golden Dawn and the Communist Party of Greece. However, if I remember correctly, only the latter has endorsed the truly radical approach of exiting the Union, as the other two have moderated their rhetoric and simply advocate for a "complete renovation of the EU, according to patriotic benefits". Despite the issues Brussels' policies and the common currency may create, Greece has benefitted immensely from the net contributions, which is presumably why the concept of Grexit is so unpopular in the country.
    Hey.
    I didn't describe the majority of parties as utterly lunatic! I said that several of them include a good dose of lunatics. Watch Adonis (past and future minister) speak in his histrionic tones, or Polakis (past minister) accusing the government of 2009 for its excesses (he was a mayor during that period so part of government) or Duru (former MP) that sued herself over the disaster in Mati or Leventis that was calling the communists "Rabbits" and that they were eating meatballs by Marika Mitsotaki (wife of former ND Prime Minister and mother of future ND prime minister) from the stand in our parliament ... or many other colorful stories.

    Much of the 17 November terrorist organization have been former members of KKE (Communist Party of Greece) or communists (I mentioned "Affiliates of KKE" I think). KKE was adamant in supporting Serifis saying he was being framed for being in the 17N. Communist Youth (KNE) was putting up fliers in our Uni for a couple of years claiming his innocence and several of them were supporting that Koufontinas was not really that bad, but a soldier in the fight against Capitalism.


    "Regarding the Greek Solution, I mentioned the party, because Jesus' letters certainly added a spicy flavor"
    And you just called me harsh for mentioning Lunatics. However, I don't think they will pass the threshold. Euroelections favor the not-important parties. With the clown at 3% people would start take notice and vote for some serious parties in the elections. Even if Velopoulos gets in the parliament I doubt ND would want to work with him. They will align with PASOK.

    Greek Solution, is not Euroskeptic, they are insane. If the Jesus letters or the stars or, why not? Jesus Himself, tell them to not break from the European Union, they won't.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 19, 2019 at 07:28 PM.
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  12. #12
    Alastor's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    I would go for Varoufakis, so MeRA25. I have seen a number of his speeches in recent years and find myself more in agreement with his worldview than not. Plus his stance during that 2015 referendum debacle showed a degree of integrity. An extremely rare thing in politics.

  13. #13
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post

    "Regarding the Greek Solution, I mentioned the party, because Jesus' letters certainly added a spicy flavor"
    And you just called me harsh for mentioning Lunatics. However, I don't think they will pass the threshold. Euroelections favor the not-important parties. With the clown at 3% people would start take notice and vote for some serious parties in the elections. Even if Velopoulos gets in the parliament I doubt ND would want to work with him. They will align with PASOK.

    Greek Solution, is not Euroskeptic, they are insane. If the Jesus letters or the stars or, why not? Jesus Himself, tell them to not break from the European Union, they won't.
    +1
    Indeed, that party is run by an utter toon, and afaik he cheated to win a seat in euro parliament (deliberately had a candidate of his use a second name, which sounded like the surname of a well-known person ). I don't think GS will enter parliament, and yes, they are a really stupid pos party.

    @Abdul: claiming Georgiades is "far-right" isn't logical. Of course some do claim it, namely Syriza. If you wish to be on the same level, go ahead
    Voridis isn't far right either, and from the little i know of Plevris (not to be confused with his utter loon father, who indeed is far right) he isn't that "far".
    ND as a whole is center-right, been so for the last 20 years at least. It still is a bad party, but imo currently there isn't anything else. Of the others it seems that the communist one makes some sense(though not in their 'leave the entire eu' position), but i don't trust them enough to vote for them.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  14. #14

    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The rest of the party has a few good politicians, a few tolerable ones and many crooks, loons and Crooks & Loons combination
    It's nice to see a party with a diverse portfolio.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Greek politics sounds awful.
    Yeah, I can't make any sense of it. I guess this is what happens when entire countries are run by foreigners. I bet half of them can't even speak English.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  15. #15
    Alastor's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Yeah, I can't make any sense of it. I guess this is what happens when entire countries are run by foreigners. I bet half of them can't even speak English.
    I assume you mean half can't even speak Greek. They need to speak English to understand the orders they receive. Regardless I don't think Greek politics are that hard to get. Not any harder to get than British politics for instance. Just, I would argue, in a more advanced state of decay.

    Varoufakis, who would be my choice if I voted, I know him from his speeches in English. Such as:

    And his books, also in English.

    A shame his party didn't run for the euro-elections here.
    Last edited by Alastor; June 20, 2019 at 02:25 AM.

  16. #16
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    I know Varoufakis from his work on steam.
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  17. #17
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Some of them don’t speak Greek? That’s crazy. I’m sure they can, but it sounds like they prefer english.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Makes me think when I share my porridge with Cyclops Jnr every morning what I'm really doing is celebrating twin genocide-by-replacement events. "The oats represent the Borging of Mesolithic Europeans, the milk is for the Yamnaya rapist-warriors, and the salt is the tears of their victims. We add honey at the end because screw the bees, right?"

  18. #18
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Some of them don’t speak Greek? That’s crazy. I’m sure they can, but it sounds like they prefer english.
    They do speak Greek, we're making fun of them. Well, one of them speaks in ancient Greek because he's a loon, but they do speak Greek. OK, a couple of them grunt in something that resembles Greek (like Adonis) but that's Greek too.
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  19. #19
    Alastor's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I know Varoufakis from his work on steam.
    Do you? I know he has worked for Valve in the past but I don't really know what he did there.

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: 2019 Greek Legislative Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Do you? I know he has worked for Valve in the past but I don't really know what he did there.
    Made a lot of work on the steam platform from what I know from the internet
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

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