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Thread: Mongols at the Gates!

  1. #1
    Laetus
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    Default Mongols at the Gates!

    Hello,
    Currently I'm playing a campaign as the HRE and I think I've been doing fine: during early game I managed to conquer Northern Italy, modern-day Poland and the Low Countries, made alliances with the Papal States, France and Denmark plus have good relations with Hungary. I established a well consolidated empire in Europe so I decided to join a crusade to the Holy Land. I captured all the coastal regions from Adana to Gaza including Jerusalem, then took Cyprus from the Byzantine Empire as a retaliation since earlier for some odd reason the Byzantines launched an invasion against the Reich on Cagliari.
    Then the Mongols showed up near Baghdad and started to migrate westwards towards my 'Crusader State' in the Levant. First they plundered Antioch then turned south and besieged Acre and Jerusalem. I managed to repel both their attacks annihilating two full stacks of their armies then it seemed they would retreat to the east. As I sent a spy on their tail, I noticed that four more full stacks were coming from the East to reinforce their armies.
    As you can see on the map, there are 10 full stacks of Mongolian hordes gathering in the desert for a full invasion against the Holy Land. What would be the best method to repel the invasion? Should I fight them at the river crossing or in the mountainous terrain northeast of Jerusalem or just defend inside the walls of my settlements? What would you do in this situation?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    Yes, fight them at river crossings and remember: Losing is not that bad. Try to cause them as many casualties as you can. You may be defeated here and them go to plunder the Turks but you can return later.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    I think fighting them inside the settlement is the most effective, if you have archer you can actually plant stakes in from of gates and kill most of their cavalry, if you don't like exploiting Ai in that way then you can hold them off with infantry and shoot them with a catapult.

  4. #4
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel of Time turns
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    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    Quote Originally Posted by cecxla View Post
    I think fighting them inside the settlement is the most effective, if you have archer you can actually plant stakes in from of gates and kill most of their cavalry, if you don't like exploiting Ai in that way then you can hold them off with infantry and shoot them with a catapult.
    He's playing as the HRE, the only stakes he can get are from a few merc units, such as the free company longbowmen.

    Use settlements, forts and chokepoints to your advantage, and try to kill isolated armies.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    Quote Originally Posted by allievo View Post
    Hello,
    Currently I'm playing a campaign as the HRE and I think I've been doing fine: during early game I managed to conquer Northern Italy, modern-day Poland and the Low Countries, made alliances with the Papal States, France and Denmark plus have good relations with Hungary. I established a well consolidated empire in Europe so I decided to join a crusade to the Holy Land. I captured all the coastal regions from Adana to Gaza including Jerusalem, then took Cyprus from the Byzantine Empire as a retaliation since earlier for some odd reason the Byzantines launched an invasion against the Reich on Cagliari.
    Then the Mongols showed up near Baghdad and started to migrate westwards towards my 'Crusader State' in the Levant. First they plundered Antioch then turned south and besieged Acre and Jerusalem. I managed to repel both their attacks annihilating two full stacks of their armies then it seemed they would retreat to the east. As I sent a spy on their tail, I noticed that four more full stacks were coming from the East to reinforce their armies.
    As you can see on the map, there are 10 full stacks of Mongolian hordes gathering in the desert for a full invasion against the Holy Land. What would be the best method to repel the invasion? Should I fight them at the river crossing or in the mountainous terrain northeast of Jerusalem or just defend inside the walls of my settlements? What would you do in this situation?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Hi!


    I think the most effective way it's to fight them while they will siege the settlement. I would increase the number of archers and infantry like spearmen because Mongols have a lot of cavalries. Also, if you upgraded your walls, they will fire the attackers and in some way will help you. Good luck. God bless.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    If you can scrounge up enough archers, fight them on bridges with spearmen being a meat wall. Otherwise if you have to fight them from within a settlement, you can sally out some cavalry to attempt to kill their siege engines, and use the city layout to neuter their cavalry--e.g. set up in the town square with spears blocking off the roads and your archers positioned to shoot down the streets.

    Side note, but OP said he'd already destroyed two stacks...how many armies does vanilla Mongols spawn? Because 14 seems high.

  7. #7
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    They come more than once. Then come the Timurids which is just another variation of the theme really.

    All a sign that you may have played the game out too many turns. I believe this is just the game designer's way to tell you to end it sooner and start another campaign. A bit like the Geisha in Shogun that disrupts order by being able to kill of the faction leadership if the game lasts too long. Except in the case of the Mongols, there is nothing like a Geisha anti Geisha to counter the invasion. You need to just keep producing armies to defend the bridges and hope to kill off the generals. Pop out the spears and archers for the meat grinder bridge stands. Once they settle and become simply a normal faction, the balance to the game seems to be restored. Remember, no matter the loses of many units, there is a limit to the number of generals in each invasion wave.

  8. #8
    UndrState's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    >All a sign that you may have played the game out too many turns.

    That seems like a very strange thing to say , considering you can't even go to the new world until well after this point .

  9. #9
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    The New world is another sign that you may have played too many turns. :tongue

    If you want to play these things out, perhaps a modification like Lands to Conquer that allows a later era start time might be a better way to play the game. But if you are starting a game in 1080 just to fight the emerging Islam factions coming from the est as hordes seems a bit of a time waste. I a not saying this is not interesting to play against the Mongols or the Timurid. I pretty much get my fill starting at 1080 or 1100 in some modifications like Stainless Steel by playing a short campaign so perhaps it is my personal bias.

  10. #10
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel of Time turns
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    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    Aye, personal opinions differ. In my opinion the Mongols and Timurids are the end-game doomstacks, the last challenge to face before gaining complete world domination. At the point they arrive you're usually snowballing already, and thus they're your only real opposition. Once you've bested them, then you know you've mastered the campaign. Going to the Americas is the reward for all your fruits, that cherry on top - giving you ample rewards in the form of gold, tobacco and most of all chocolate. And crazy infantry running around in pajamas ( I actually had to look up the English spelling, they're spelled pysjamas over here)
    Proudly under the patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Mongols at the Gates!

    I guess the battles are all over for this post, but I'll post anyway.

    I prefer to fight Mongols in the field. This means about 10 - 12 units of your heaviest cavalry, plus lots of missiles. For the HRE Imperial Knights fully armoured are good. Hire 2 Alan cavalry as mercs, as they can catch the Mongol Horse Archers. For the HRE pavise crossbowmen are the answer, plus a few Armenian archer mercs for the quicker rate of fire. I send the heavy cavalry to the flanks, then charge flanking archers. Run the pavise xbows up then. I usually use my general to charge any Mongol Heavy Lancers that get through. Don't settle into an exchange of missile fire. Charging the Mongol archers will make them walk backwards. Casualties are high but you will win.

    Obviously you want your units on silver. No experience units just won't do it.

    Points to note - the Turks Ottoman Infantry archers, the Byzantines Byzantine Guard archers, and the Russians Dismounted Dvor archers are all stronger than Mongol Infantry. These three generally always have to fight the Mongols. Plus, the Turkish Qapukulu, the Egyptian Royal Mamluks and the Russian Tsar's Guard are the strongest heavy cavalry in the game, and will slice through Mongol ranks. With the Egyptians Mamluk Horse Archers are brilliant and if you follow the heavy cavalry with them they will kill hundreds.

    Fight them as they come in waves - you get time to retrain before the next wave. Usually three or four stacks are enough. Scatter single units around them as they come in order to separate one or two of their stacks. Get a single unit in between the stacks in you can.
    "War is an extension of diplomacy, but by other means." Karl von Clausewitz

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