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Thread: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

  1. #1
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    So I've think of some other suggestion that I'd like to share with you.

    1 - After building last tier of Hospital and Imperial College, characters that stay for some time in those settlement should have a chance to gain a surgeon as a trait/FEAT, it would be cool.

    2 - Not sure if it is already possible, but it would be nice to have some black bandits available as mercenary recruitment in the Heshan mountains.

    3 - All pass take like 6 turn before they surrender, or something like that, but should they not take a lot more time? Player shouldn't be able to take advantage of this mechanic and just wait out the enemy while they should be able to resupply their base almost infinitely because they have no enemy in the back.

    4 - This is probably known, but just in case. When you bribe a character that has infantry or bow buqu, they convert into cav everytime.

    5 - Character that changes side (like Guan Yu joining Cao Cao or Lu Bu joining Liu Bei) lose their campaign model.

    6 - Xu Huang portrait doesn't match his campaign/battle model, so it would be cool to bring back the portrait that portrays him accordingly.

    7 - That is a question, not a suggestion : Where I'm at in Cao Wei campaign, building Merchant Guild or commerce or even road doesn't seem to impact my economy anymore. Is this just a bug (like we can see it impact our economy but it actually does) or is it intentional to just not have trade anymore even though I have trade agreement with huge faction like Ba Shu and Sun Clan? And is there a way to change that so that trade decrease over time instead of completely stopping?

    8 - Did you guys did something to slow down the command to unit? By that I mean there's always a delay when you order a unit to attack or go somewhere, so if it is your doing, is there a way I can undo it please?

    Thank you!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    5: Guan Yu's campaign model is the same used by Liu Bei when I played Cao-Wei.

    7: Did you accept the king title? I noticed playing Yuan Shao that if you accept a title, your trade drops drastically. Mine was cut in at least half. Apparently as emperor, you have to provide welfare to all of China, LOL!

    8: Haven't noticed this. Do you have "Show cpu moves" checked? That tends to slow things down.

    A few other suggestions:

    9: Agents, such as the diplomat, still use English voices ("England welcomes you"). This is an immersion killer.

    10: Liaodong seems to get "stuck" fighting the Korean faction. The Laodong ai has severe problems using the passage to Korea's northeastern most city, Gaoguli, nestled in the mountains.

    11: I think that joining the campaign against Yuan Shu, the False Emperor, should be optional. Also, I don't think Lu Bu would care if Yuan Shu proclaimed himself emperor, unless there is a historical basis I am not aware of.

  3. #3
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    5 : Hm, this is odd. I wonder how sure you are about that, cause I have a clean and most recent version and am just playing Cao Wei as of now and Guan Yu lose his model when joining Cao Wei.

    7 : Yes I did after the second time it was offered to me, cause refusing it twice seems to prevent you to ever becoming king or emperor. But I did not know it would decrease or even stop all trade. Having known that, I would have refused the title without thinking twice.

    8 : You did not understand my question. I'm asking the respond time in BATTLE. There seem to be a delay before the units obey your order.

    9 : I haven't notice that, which bring me to ask again if you have a the most recent version. But maybe I haven't pay attention to it.

    10 : Not in my campaign. They destroyed Korea and are now conquering all the north.

    11 : It wouldn't make much sense if it was optional. It's a direct threat to the legitimate emperor and anyone not answering the call against Yuan Shu would have been a traitor. At this stage, even though the Han was weak, no one dared to act as king or emperor fearing just that : giving an excuse for everyone to ally against you and wipe you out. What a perfect excuse since no one was yet THAT strong to go to war against everyone else. And the historical basis for Lu Bu, i guess, is just what I told you : anyone not answering the call to depose Yuan Shu would have been declared a traitor, another perfect excuse to get rid of someone. And Lu Bu, in the mod, is acting as a governor of a region, he is an official of the Han. So no choice there.

  4. #4
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    Why do you think Cao Cao act for so long as a loyal subject of the Emperor while he was truly acting for his own benefit? Everyone played it like the Han was still the almighty Emperor until Cao Cao broke the ice and declared himself king of the Wei, he was then strong enough to face anyone wanting to oppose him.

  5. #5
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    Quote Originally Posted by FoggyFogFiggy View Post
    So I've think of some other suggestion that I'd like to share with you.

    1 - After building last tier of Hospital and Imperial College, characters that stay for some time in those settlement should have a chance to gain a surgeon as a trait/FEAT, it would be cool.
    Makes sense. I think there could be a small chance for characters to get the Surgeon feat.

    2 - Not sure if it is already possible, but it would be nice to have some black bandits available as mercenary recruitment in the Heshan mountains.
    Doubtful, as I want to keep them as unique units for the Heishan.

    3 - All pass take like 6 turn before they surrender, or something like that, but should they not take a lot more time? Player shouldn't be able to take advantage of this mechanic and just wait out the enemy while they should be able to resupply their base almost infinitely because they have no enemy in the back.
    In reality, possibly true. However, the length of time before a settlement surrenders is hard-coded based on settlement size. I can’t change that.

    4 - This is probably known, but just in case. When you bribe a character that has infantry or bow buqu, they convert into cav everytime.
    Again, hard-coded. When bribed, the general will take the “default” bodyguard unit of the faction. Default is determined by which bodyguard unit is listed first for that faction in EDU. In all cases, cavalry is first for every faction.

    5 - Character that changes side (like Guan Yu joining Cao Cao or Lu Bu joining Liu Bei) lose their campaign model.
    Factions only have a maximum of 10 strat models. One is for the leader, one for the heir, and one for generals. That leaves only 7 unique strat models for other characters in that faction. For the Cao Clan, those 7 models are used already (Cao Ren, Sima Yi, Xu Huang, Xiahou Dun, Xiahou Yuan, etc.), so any other characters that join (Liu Bei, Guan Yu) have to use the one for regular generals. The only way they keep their model is if the “receiving faction” has a free spot in their list of 10, the specific model is manually specified in the list of 10 models for the receiving faction, and special traits and scripts are made to have them to use the other model once they change factions (like Taishi Ci).

    6 - Xu Huang portrait doesn't match his campaign/battle model, so it would be cool to bring back the portrait that portrays him accordingly.
    I’m not really concerned with that.

    7 - That is a question, not a suggestion : Where I'm at in Cao Wei campaign, building Merchant Guild or commerce or even road doesn't seem to impact my economy anymore. Is this just a bug (like we can see it impact our economy but it actually does) or is it intentional to just not have trade anymore even though I have trade agreement with huge faction like Ba Shu and Sun Clan? And is there a way to change that so that trade decrease over time instead of completely stopping?
    Quote Originally Posted by theharkonnen;
    7: Did you accept the king title? I noticed playing Yuan Shao that if you accept a title, your trade drops drastically. Mine was cut in at least half. Apparently as emperor, you have to provide welfare to all of China, LOL!
    Has nothing to do with rank or becoming King/Emperor. If you look at the F.A.Q., the sixth entry explains why your income (specifically trade income) takes a dive.

    8 - Did you guys did something to slow down the command to unit? By that I mean there's always a delay when you order a unit to attack or go somewhere, so if it is your doing, is there a way I can undo it please?
    No, we’ve done absolutely nothing with that. To be honest, I don’t think such can even be modded to be slowed or delayed.

    Quote Originally Posted by theharkonnen
    9: Agents, such as the diplomat, still use English voices ("England welcomes you"). This is an immersion killer.
    Like Figgy, I haven’t noticed this either. But I’ll look for it now.

    10: Liaodong seems to get "stuck" fighting the Korean faction. The Laodong ai has severe problems using the passage to Korea's northeastern most city, Gaoguli, nestled in the mountains.
    That was just that specific campaign. I almost always see either Liaodong or Goguryeo destroy the other, in both short and protracted wars. Similarly how sometimes Sun Ce takes 30 turns to beat the 3 other factions in Jiangdong and other times he does it in a little over a dozen turns.

    11: I think that joining the campaign against Yuan Shu, the False Emperor, should be optional. Also, I don't think Lu Bu would care if Yuan Shu proclaimed himself emperor, unless there is a historical basis I am not aware of.
    It is historical, yes. When Yuan Shu declared himself Emperor, Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Lu Bu and Sun Ce all declared war on him. Their combined might is what crushed Yuan’s massive army. Literally everyone turned on Yuan Shu when he declared. Lu Bu cared because, at the time, he and Yuan Shu were feuding over control of Xu province and Yuan Shu’s son was to marry Lu Bu’s daughter - self-declaring put a stop to the latter as Lu Bu retrieved his daughter and sent Yuan’s envoy to Cao Cao for execution. Plus what Figgy said above.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    5: Maybe its one of those things that sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

    7: Yeah, I had to stop my Yuan campaign because the trade reduction was just too much for me.

    9: I have 3.5. The voices usually only occur when you send a diplomat to a foreign power. It also affects princesses. The move orders and everything are in Chinese.

    10: Interesting. In my Cao/Liu playthroughs, Liaodong seems to get stuck on the western mountains.

    11: Yeah, but Lu Bu stole Pu Yang from Cao Cao. Not a very legitimate thing to do in the first place. Furthermore, its not like Jingzhou or Qiaozhou is rushing to aid in the war. The whole Yuan Shu war is kind of sudden too. I had just stolen several of his western regions as Liu Bei, then like five turns later, war was forced upon me again.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    I just saw Seether's post

    Please disregard my arguments in the thread above.

  8. #8
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    1 : Cool!

    2 : No problem, was just wondering.

    3 : What a bummer! ^^'

    4 : Oh ok, good to know!

    5 : Well, that's strange because Cao Ren is there from the beginning and he doesn't have a unique model in my campaign...

    6 : No problem, I probably can do it myself. ^^

    7 : Ok I've read the F.A.Q, but no where it says that it completely remove trade income. Building roads or anything other than farm doesn't grant me any economical benefits, at all. Not even 1 gold. So now, I have no reason to improve roads really, except to gain a little movement bonus, and merchant guild or commerce as well, only give population growth bonus, which doesn't seem useful if it doesn't come with an economical bonus too. I mean, at this point I can just destroy/sell the latter since it will give me more money this way.

    8 : Oh ok, just wanted to be sure because I thought I read something about this about Stainless Steel.

  9. #9
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    Oh and also my merchants were making a lot of money at first but now they almost do no money, on the resource on which they are since the beginning of my campaign. Is it related to the trade income as well?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    I noticed this as well. My merchants all went to 0, no matter the resource. I thought it has something to do with the rival merchants trading the same items, now I am not sure.

  11. #11
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    A deeper explanation on the income thing, is that while it only affects settlements city-level and above, it is also a cumulative effect. So the more city-level and above settlements you control, the more your trade income will be reduced (that’s just how Medieval 2 mechanics work :/). When you control enough, trade income will reach 0. And, yes, for some reason CA made it so that trade resources and trade income modifiers directly affect each other. Why? Not a clue. But that is why trade income and merchant income can reach 0.
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    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    So let's say I only choose to upgrade like 2 or 3 settlements to city level and every other settlements I keep to large town, would i be able to keep trade income?

    Also, quick question, are we allowed to post sub mod for this mod, like other mods for M2TW? Because I don't see any here so maybe its forbidden? Cause after the next update, I'd like to upload a little sub mod with little tweaks people might enjoy.

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    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    Oh and not sure if i understood you right, but it also affect all other settlement too. I still have town and they don't produce income when building commerce or roads. I guess its because i have too many large cities (and one Huge City (Xudu (why not Xuchang?)).

  14. #14
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    I’m looking for a way to cut income from mid-game on, without touching trade income. Early game seems fine, if perhaps a little high. Weighing the options...

    Feel free. Sub-mods are fine.

    The diminishing returns on trade are faction-wide, as Medieval 2 does trade income on a faction-wide basis (not per settlement) and will not allow you to do it per settlement. So the cumulative effect happens due to each settlement city-level and above, which in turn affects every settlement controlled by the faction instead of just that particular city-level settlement. I don’t like that CA did it that way, but it can’t be changed. I can only try some other method that doesn’t involve trade income.

    Xudu = Xuchang. Xu city was renamed to Xuchang in 220 by Cao Pi. I might just remove that renaming, keeping it as only Xuchang, as that was done by an old team member a long time ago and I had forgotten about it.

    Also, please use the edit function instead of double-posting
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    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    Well, maybe if you add building upkeep? More advance tier would be more costly to maintain. I mean, the Imperial Palace cost like 25 000 gold, with an upkeep (having to pay servants, renovation, occasional imperial feast/party, etc) could be around 2500-4000 gold and so on for every building (barracks should not cost much since we already pay for soldiers, but Medical Center, doctors are costly, the temples needy as always depending on donation and charity from the people and the state, etc) . As a player, we would have to be careful and have a strategy to prioritize important buildings. Just an idea, maybe we ought to test it to make sure it makes sense on the long run.


    Sorry for double posting, very bad habit! And, in game, I try to change the name of settlement, but it always come back to Xudu after a battle, or any loading screen. But it only does that to my capital as far as I know. I've change Nanpi for Bohai and it kept the modified name.

  16. #16
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    There is a script that changes the name.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    Personally, I like the early to mid-game economics. It allows me to build up enough forces to challenge the horde factions like Cao, Yuan, and Sun.

  18. #18
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    I agree.



    EDIT : Also the trade script kill the AI (i think) , Xianbei, and 2 other factions died while still having many cities, but huge armies. Now, when I have like 20 000 gold, I'm the richest faction lol. And when I'm not, it is the unaligned forces. xD
    Last edited by FoggyFogFiggy; June 16, 2019 at 04:25 PM.

  19. #19
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    I always run huge surpluses, like at least 300,000+ wuzhu. Which I then use to bribe those captain-led stack blobs into oblivion
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  20. #20
    FoggyFogFiggy's Avatar Modding Staff
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    Default Re: Some suggestions/ideas and questions

    I should have done that too, but I've like many, many armies. Xiahou Dun, with two of his son, lead the campaign against the Wudomi Sect, also having under his command Lidian (so 4 full stack), I have Cao Cao which never move without his army (in which there's his son Cao Pi) and other armies commanded by Cao Hong, Cao Xiu and Xu Chu. Up north, there's Cao Ren leading the campaign against the remain of Yuan clan, and preparing to deal with Liaodong, having under his command like 7 full stack armies (Xiahou Yuan, Zhang He, Niu Jin, Zhang Ba, Xu Huang, etc), there's Guan Yu dealing with rebels in the Heishan mountains with Li Qian and Yu Jin. Zhang Liao is now resupplying his army in Xu Chang, but he is affected under the command of Sima Yi in the campaign against Xi Liang and Gansu, having 4-5 full stack armies under command.

    So I barely make any wuzhu now. xD War is so costly, but when I'll finish dealing with the North, I think I will disband some armies, and send some characters govern settlement for a while.

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