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Thread: MINISTERIAL OFFICES (included 096)

  1. #21

    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    That's what I said. These were not offices but titles
    I don't see the distinction. The Admiral of France was an office same as the Grand Seneschal or Constable. The title of Captain General of the Sea in Venice was granted by the Great Council of Venice, and wasn't a rank in the modern sense, if that's what you mean, even if more experienced sailors were usually chosen for the office. I don't see how that's different from other crown/state officers.

    The book I linked, War at Sea in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, mentions admiral as an office in England, France, Zeeland, Castile, Aragon, and the Almohads (as amir al-bahr).
    Last edited by Tripledot; May 09, 2020 at 05:14 AM.

  2. #22
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    According to your links:
    Admiral of France (French: Amiral de France) is a French title of honour. It is the naval equivalent of Marshal of France and was one of the Great Officers of the Crown of France.
    Marshal of France (French: Maréchal de France, plural Maréchaux de France) is a French military distinction, rather than a military rank, that is awarded to generals for exceptional achievements.

    I might be blind but I haven't seen any mention of any office.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; May 09, 2020 at 06:57 AM.
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  3. #23

    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    King Henry III of England appointed the first known English Admiral Sir Richard de Lucy on 29 August 1224.[1] De Lucy was followed by Sir Thomas Moulton in 1264,[1] who also held the title of Keeper of the Sea and Sea Ports. Moulton was succeeded by Sir William de Leybourne, (the son of Sir Roger de Leybourne) as Admiral of the Sea of the King of England. In 1286 he was appointed Admiral of the Navy,[2] holding the rank of admiral until 1294[1] and serving under King Edward I of England. As the English Navy was expanding towards the end of the thirteenth century, new appointments of admirals with specific administrative and geographic responsibilities were created. Sir John de Botetourt was appointed Admiral of the North in 1294. This position existed until 1412.[1] Also in 1294, the king appointed Sir William de Laybourne to the dual commands of Admiral of the South, (1294-1412) and Admiral of the West, (1294-1412). The first royal commission as Admiral to a naval officer was granted in 1303 to Gervase Alard.[3] By 1344 it was only used as a rank at sea for a captain in charge of a fleet or fleets.[3] In 1364 the office of Admiral of the North and West was created until 1414.[1] Beginning in 1408 these admirals' responsibilities were gradually absorbed by the office of the High Admiral of England, Ireland and Aquitaine (later Lord Admiral of England) leading to a centralized command by 1414. In 1412 the Admiral of the Narrow Seas was established briefly until 1413. It was revived on a more permanent basis from 1523, until lapsing again in 1688.
    from wikipedia

    There already exists an admiralty building, could use that as a trigger for creation of ancillary High Admiral. Could give a Loyalty bonus to whoever is awarded it. You'd probably only want one per faction. For Generals or FMs.

  4. #24

    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    According to your links:



    I might be blind but I haven't seen any mention of any office.
    I thought their title (officers of France) implied that those were offices. I don't get why Marshal would be considered an office in-game (which it is) but not Admiral. I really don't understand your line of argument, are you saying that these titles were merely honorary or something, because it seems to me that no, they weren't, and that admirals had actual jurisdiction over naval production, fleets, and warfare.
    Last edited by Tripledot; May 09, 2020 at 10:50 AM.

  5. #25
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    After further researches, I've to admit I was wrong. My bad
    Another example that Wikipedia has to be taken with caution
    According to a book called "Medieval France: An encyclopedia", the position of admiral is described as follow:
    The responsabilities of the French admirals, who were paid extremly well for their services, including overseeing the fleet's in Mediterranean and Atlantic, installing police and judicial officials in the port towns, organizing pay for naval troops, and sitting in judgement over naval illegalities. Lieutenants or vice-admirals frequently assisted them in these duties. Admirals also sat in the Grand' Chambre of Parlement and at the Table de Marbre, a special tribunal for cases involving military, naval and forestry affairs.
    This is also confirmed somehow and in a similar way in another book named "England's Medieval Navy 1066-1509: Ships, Men & Warfare".
    It also sems that ERE and Muslims realm had a similar organization.
    But not sure what the bonus for such office should be authority? Public order?
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader


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  6. #26

    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post

    But not sure what the bonus for such office should be authority? Public order?
    But wouldn't that have to be an ancillary supposedly carried by an admiral? I think command and small movement speed could make sense. Also, admirals, unlike captains, can actually get ancillaries if i remember correctly.

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