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Thread: MINISTERIAL OFFICES (included 096)

  1. #1
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Icon6 MINISTERIAL OFFICES (included 096)

    Hi Guys,
    Following my previous minimods, I'd like to present you the fix of the existing (in 0.9.2) offices titles.
    You may download it here. Mind that it also includes my other modifications like PTS, GTCS, improved agents, loyalty etc. However, the Crowns have not yet been updated.

    ------

    (I) General information

    Getting an Office:

    • A Faction Leader acquires an office if the following conditions are fulfilled:
      • there’re still undistributed offices for he factions (there’s one office per faction rule);
      • he doesn’t have any office on him (he didn’t have one, or he's already given the acquired one to another general);
      • in some cases certain buildings must exist.
      • he holds his personal strengths: he's not Diseased, AbsentMinded, Sadly or Blissfully Ignorant, Senile or Totally Senile, Quite Mad or Utterly Insane.

    • Once the FL gets an office, the player is better to give it to another general (through manual swapping). This is because: 1. FL can have only one title at once so there can be other offices to be gotten, 2. the generals may draw much higher benefits from the offices than the FL himself (this concerns mainly the other traits possible to attain).
    • The player is then free to swap offices between generals - there’re no penalties for removing an offices from a general (unlike in the case of the provincial titles).


    The benefits of the Offices

    • all Offices provide with a trait “Office holder” that gives +1 Authority and +1 Loyalty at the cost of lower Private Security.
    • Each office provides additional benefits, and they may be quite substantial.
    • However, the main advantage of having an office is that it allows / speeds up getting certain traits (this part is still to be further modded by me). It is technically possible to keep a few offices on one general (and even on FL), but it’s a waste of ressources. It is much beneficial to assign one office per general.


    (II) Modding considerations


    • The main goal of this submod is to make the Offices meaningful for the gameplay. The direct benefits (like +1 Law) have been buffed up, but crucially they’ll feature in the triggers for other traits. Specifically, they’ll impact through the Loyalty system: a general with an Office will be less likely to lose Loyalty due to the distance from capital and other event. The +1 Authority will be crucial to be get also other traits (see here).
    • The second goal of this submod is to make the offices more “historical”. This concerns mainly the way of getting them. Currently, they are given directly to the generals on the basis of their traits, some other requirements (building in a settlement), and with (sometimes low) probabilities. There’s nothing that prevents from swapping them later on to the other guys what means their assignment is made on purpose (all these conditions), but then they mayb used by different generals (the player usually swaps them according to their needs), irrelevant from those conditions. So why to bother making those conditions? (and they make little sense anyway). Historically, in most cases the award of an office depended on the will of the ruler. In this context, I seriously trim the triggers and introduce simple rules.
    • There’re also other problems: Chamberlain is an office of a person, but it sticks to the FactionLeader (so it’s a human ancillary). But the other titles are the titles of the generals (so they’re not “humans” like Architect, they’re just titles). I also think that the names are very ango-centric - I’ve tweaked them making more universal.


    The modding framework is as follows:

    • all offices are transferable – they’re the tools for the player to play the game.
    • There are no “penalties” of stripping a general of an office (unlike the provincial titles – in that case there’re sever penalties to the loyalty).
    • all offices are initially assigned to the FL – then swapping them to a general is part of the play for the player. If the player keeps a title on the FL, a trait lowering FL authority follows.
    • to get an office the FL does not need to be in vicinity of the the capital – I’ve played with this requirement and I’ve found it bad for the gameplay: it discouraged from moving the FL elsewhere; however, one may thinkg about introducint it…
    • some offices require certain buildings to be owned by the faction (eg. Lord Marshall: Large City, Master of Horse: stables level III), and some require historical events to happen.
    • given that the AI doesn’t swap the ancillaries between generals, there’re separate triggers for the AI assigning the offices directly to the generals and having lower requirements.
    • as said, the triggers in the old version (0.9.2) included varous conditions and probabilities that resulted in late and incidental appearance of the offices in-game. Now they’ll appear more easily while their delay has been related to deterministic factors (eg if the faction has a certain building).


    The benefits of the titles

    • have been buffed up in comparison to the initial values to make them more meaningful for the player. Now a decision to assign an office is a significant one.
    • Having an office gives a trait “Office holder” giving +1 Authority, +1 Loyalty and -1 PublicSecurity - as it seems to me that having an office raises the authority of the person among his peers, makes him more loyal to the rulers (“if another ruler will come, will he give me this office?”), and exposes him to the eye of everybody, makes some enemies etc.
    • The Offices still have their own benefits, but they’re usually small (+1 Law, or + 1 Piety). Some offices are more “economic” by nature: more economy benefits – then they’re also related to some bad things (like + 1 unrest). Master of Horse has also a negation of the +1 Authority, given that it was rather less respected office.
    • Having more than one office doesn’t provide much benefits – only those “own” benefits, as the “Office holder” trait is gives the same benefit for any number of offices.
    • I hesitated how much Loyalty buffs should be included. Giving too many to the civilian offices (like PrivySeal or Seneshal) would have prompted the player to use them for military purposes (as leaders of a far-away expeditions). Therefore I’ve decided to give that +1 Loyalty through the trait, and only in one case – PrivySeal – to give an additional one. More loyalty will be passed through the Near/Far Loyalty and through the Content/Discontent general triggers.
    • I haven’t touched upon the Byzantine career offices (imported to the SS from the CBUR mod). However, any general who would acquire a CBUR office will get the trait “Office holder” and will draw all benefits due to this fact.
    • If the FL keeps an office undistributed, he gets a malus -1 Authority with the text calling for distribution of the offices.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; August 30, 2020 at 05:09 AM.
    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best IMO are:
    Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project and Broken Crescent.
    Read my opinions on other mods here.
    ........................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods (all made in 2018): SSHIP, Wrath of the Norsemen, Broken Crescent.
    Home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Hints for Medieval 2 moders: forts, merchants, AT-NGB bug.
    Thrones of Britannia: review, opinion on the battles, ideas for modding. No good mod yet, alas!
    Dominant strategy in Rome2, Attila, ToB and Troy: “Sniping groups of armies”. Still there, alas!
    .................................................................................................................................................................................
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, script, historical improvements, fixes everywhere.

  2. #2
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    (III) List of the Offices

    Each office gives a trait “Office holder” with effects: +1 Authority, +1 Loyalty, -1 PersonalSecurity. Having more than one office doesn’t make any difference.
    If the Faction Leader holds an office for himself, it gives him -1 Authority.
    The pagan factions (Lithuania, the Cumans) currently use the catholic titles. The pagan ones can be developed - but I need input on how it worked for them.
    The Byzantine career offices that were imported to the SS from the CBUR mod stay as they were (I haven't checked if they do work in practice - but I've played Romaioi in the Titanium and they did work - so I assume it's also true for the SSHIP). However, they concern military career so they don't provide for "Office holder" effects.


    Public order & security offices:

    Office name: Keeper of the Privy Seal (privyseal, palatine, wesirseal)
    Effects: +1 Loyalty, +1 Piety, +1 Public Security (for Muslims, Hungary and Poland: +1 Law)
    Role in history: a high-ranking dignitary, member of the close circle around the ruler.
    When available: from the beginning.
    Conditions to be acquired: FL must end his move in a Minor City with Council Chambers.
    Gameplay: provides flexibility when a general is just short o 1 Loyalty / 1 Piety of his needed attributes.

    Office name: Chamberlain (chamberlain, chamberlain_greek, chamberlain_muslim)
    Effects: +1 LocalPopularity, +2 PublicSecurity, +2 PersonalSecurity, -20% cost to bribe
    Role in history: oversees the ruler’s household, ensures security, and asserts his authority.
    When available: after 50 turns.
    Conditions to be acquired: FL must end his move in a Large City with a Coaching House.
    Gameplay: gives Public Security to settlements at risk of enemy agent actions - many times it may concern the settlement with the Faction Leader thus making the situation very historical. From the point of view of the character, those base Authority and Loyalty benefits are more important.

    Office name: Chancellor (chancellor, chancellor_greek, chancellor_muslim)
    Effects: +1 Law, +1 Piety, +1 Public Security (additionally: for Muslims: another +1 Law and -5% tax, for Greeks: +1 Law, but no Piety)
    Role in history: oversees the system of the ruler’s justice.
    When available: after 150 turns.
    Conditions to be acquired: FL must end his move in a Large City with a University.
    Gameplay: similar to the Keeper of the Privy Seal. The need grows as the kingdom expands since the FarLoyalty kicks in.

    Economic offices:

    Office name: Treasurer (kings_treasurer, kings_treasurer_greek, kings_treasurer_muslim)
    Effects: +10% tax, +10% trade, +10% mining, +2 unrest, -1Piety, -20% cost to bribe
    Role in history: manager of the faction’s finances.
    When available: from the beginning, but for most factions only after some investments and conquests as 30k income requires perhaps 10 settlements.
    Conditions to be acquired: FL must end his move in a Minor City with Library.
    Gameplay: provides income boost in the biggest city from the beginning of the game – very valuable even for a small faction, and doesn't lose importance in a big empire.

    Office name: Steward (steward, steward_france, steward_hre, steward_russia, steward_muslim, steward_greek)
    Effects: -2 squalor, -10% costs of buidings
    Role in history: oversees the other officials dedicated to various tasks, including public works and cities’ management.
    When available: after 100 turns.
    Conditions to be acquired: FL must end his move in a Large City with University.
    Gameplay: provides targeted growth for the chosen city to make it to the upper level, or builds the buildings travelling around - there’s a choice how to use him as both benefits are very valuable.

    Office name: Seneschal (seneschal, seneschal_greek, seneschal_muslim)
    Effects: +5% tax, +5% trade, +2 farming, +1 unrest
    Role: oversee ruler’s domain and other sources of income.
    When available: after 200 turns.
    Conditions to be acquired: FL must end his move in a Large City with a Great Market and a University.
    Gameplay: similar to the Treasurer, needed as the kingdom expands.


    Military offices:

    Office name: Marshall (marshall, marshall_greek, marshall_muslim)
    Effects: -10% troop recruitment costs, 60 pts. siege equipment, +2 LineOfSight
    Role in history: chief recruiter and the leader of the faction's military.
    When available: from the beginning.
    Conditions to get it: FL ends his turn in a Castle with a Drill Square.
    Gameplay: provides cheaper troops even for a small faction at the beginning of the game. The LineOfSight benefit is very valuable in the SSHIP with lowered sight ranges (also for the spies), and with more expensive watchtowers.

    Office name: Master of Horse (moh, moh_greek, moh_muslim)
    Effects: +15% Movement, +1 CavalryCommand, +2 LineOfSight, -1 Authority
    Role in history: inspector of the faction’s cavalry; general for scouting.
    When available: from the beginning.
    Conditions to get it: FL ends his turn in a Fortress with Barons Stables (the Cumans don’t have the buiding’s requirement).
    Gameplay: provides a good military leader for the foreign expediction: fast and with the long-range view.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; July 09, 2019 at 12:35 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Damn Jurand, you just keep on fixing everything.
    Alii inferre bellum, facientibus pacem.


  4. #4

    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Jurand you planned add your minimods to new sship version?
    We hope can play them in the next release for make it more historically correct
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  5. #5
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    I confess not to worry much about the traits of my characters apart from the titles of governors of region or city. Your work is exciting Jurand ! When he becomes part of the game, he will have to remember and know how to use it.

  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    The minimods will be included.
    There'll be in-game information on how to get and how to use things like the titles or how to get education.
    For me, the traits and ancillaries the crucial part of the game. They add the fourth dimension to the game (battle-campaign-characters-history). I'd like they'd have an impact on the game. I always keep record of my character, like here


    I've had a look at the Three Kingdoms and while I think they're heading in this directions, they're not yet there. Or maybe I just don't feel the Chinese history and characters.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; June 15, 2019 at 07:36 AM.

  7. #7
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    It seems to me that for the 3 kingdoms, Total War approaches more mythology than historical realism. I do not like these men who can burst alone more than ten soldiers. Some generals look like superheroes on the battlefield ...
    Thank you Jurand for this immersive dimension that you bring to SSHIP !
    Last edited by kostic; June 15, 2019 at 09:20 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Yees, thank you Jurand for your effort and improve sship mod,especially in these areas of the characters and traits pretty interestings for the gameplay and inmersion
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
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  9. #9
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by reaper101 View Post
    Damn Jurand, you just keep on fixing everything.
    In my opinion, the SSHIP is extremely rich in the features, doesn't have too many redundant features (as the DLV unfortunately had), is much historical (while the DLV unfortunately wasn't), etc., etc., but many feature badly need fixing in many dimentions.
    Eg. I've just checked Kievian Rus and was surprised by the effects of the Bloodline there. I think Bloodlines are another feature that need fixing (even if I don't plan it for the moment).
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; June 17, 2019 at 02:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Wallachian's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    This is a truly remarkable achievement, adds complexity and fun to the mod

  11. #11
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Note on the pagan factions (Lithuania, the Cumans): they currently use the catholic titles. The pagan can be developed - but I need input on how it worked for them.

  12. #12
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    About Lithuania, check this site. It's full of great infos
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; June 23, 2019 at 04:50 AM.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Jurand do you want add a military office for the navy? As Admiral of the navy when faction leader is in a large city with port of level III with attributes for ships and recruitment cost, or is included as ancillary for fleet or ships? Maybe with better improvements for byzantines, pisa and venice and other factions with "seafaring tradition"
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  14. #14
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Are you sure that such office existed?
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  15. #15

    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Are you sure that such office existed?
    No, i refer that if i remember correctly exist an ancillarie with a "human admiral" that you gain in your ships/fleet with some requirements... For this i ask if is necessary make a new office for the navy
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  16. #16
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Again, this is not accurate.
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  17. #17
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    An idea for late era office: Judicial Astrologer. Over info about what's is the matter about is here.
    I've read that there're such positions in a few faction (eg Venice) despite oposition of the Catholic church.
    Any more info? Esp. whether similar system existed in the Muslim world.

  18. #18
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    It seems it existed but not as an office (more like an ancillary obviously) and from earlier period actually. Some info here, here and here.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: MOF - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Are you sure that such office existed?
    The Venetians had the office of Captain General of the Sea.

    According to this book, it seems that Castile, Aragon, and Sicily also had a position of Admiral, as well as the various maritime republics. The position of Admiral of France has existed since 1270. There is plenty of historical evidence for a ministerial office of Admiral.

  20. #20
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [I] - Ministerial Offices fix for 0.9.2 (included in 096)

    That's what I said. These were not offices but titles
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