Trying to add a new strat-model to the mod - CTD when about to load?

[Gigantus]

GOAT tossed this into my face when I tried a straight converting to CAS, nothing got converted. The bottom line is about the standard model comment. I'll check on the value will see if saving in Milkshape 1.8.4 changes anything or what else might need a correction. No luck with Grumpy's converter either.

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Programs\Python26\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1410, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\_GameObjectApplicationToolbox_v1_1.py", line 2345, in convertms3dtocasButton
    ms3d2casConverter( ms3dfilename, casfilename )
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\_GameObjectApplicationToolbox_v1_1.py", line 490, in ms3d2casConverter
    ms3dobj.fromfile( fnms3d )
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\GameObjectApplicationLibrary_v1_1.py", line 12757, in fromfile
    self.definetoplevelinfo( ms3dfilename )
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\GameObjectApplicationLibrary_v1_1.py", line 12959, in definetoplevelinfo
    self.boundingsphere = [ float( tokens[0] ), float( tokens[1] ), float( tokens[2] ), float( tokens[3] ) ]
ValueError: invalid literal for float(): 1 16 3 0 0 16 8 0 0 16 10 0 0 102 5 1 1 textures\Empire_capitan.tga 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Edit: added the missing comment for 'group', copied the 'model' comment from a convertible CAS file, saved in 1.8.4 and then tried to convert - still the same error message. 'group' comment:

1 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 -0.0 0.0 -0.0

model comment

1 16 3 0 0 16 8 0 0 16 10 0 0 103 5 1 1 textures\random.tga 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Reckon something happened when you ripped the arms off and then reattached them, Paleolegos might know more.

The above comments work in GOAT as well as with Grumpy's

[Gigantus]

Progress!!

Used a much older commenting set, saved with 1.8.4 and converted with GOAT:

model - blank, nothing, nada

-- group --
1 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

--- material ---
3.200000 38 9 0 1.83333337307 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 1 2 3 1 5 6 6 8 9 6 11 12 6 14 15 1 17 18
0.00000  0.01667  0.03333  0.05000  0.06667  0.08333  0.10000  0.11667  0.13333  0.15000  0.16667  0.18333  0.20000  0.21667  0.23333  0.25000  0.26667  0.28333  0.30000  0.31667  0.33333  0.35000  0.36667  0.38333  0.40000  0.41667  0.43333  0.45000  0.46667  0.48333  0.50000  0.51667  0.53333  0.55000  0.56667  0.58333  0.60000  0.61667  0.63333  0.65000  0.66667  0.68333  0.70000  0.71667  0.73333  0.75000  0.76667  0.78333  0.80000  0.81667  0.83333  0.85000  0.86667  0.88333  0.90000  0.91667  0.93333  0.95000  0.96667  0.98333  1.00000  1.01667  1.03333  1.05000  1.06667  1.08333  1.10000  1.11667  1.13333  1.15000  1.16667  1.18333  1.20000  1.21667  1.23333  1.25000  1.26667  1.28333  1.30000  1.31667  1.33333  1.35000  1.36667  1.38333  1.40000  1.41667  1.43333  1.45000  1.46667  1.48333  1.50000  1.51667  1.53333  1.55000  1.56667  1.58333  1.60000  1.61667  1.63333  1.65000  1.66667  1.68333  1.70000  1.71667  1.73333  1.75000  1.76667  1.78333  1.80000  1.81667  1.83333
18 1 0 0 0 64190 2 1
1 16 3 0 0 16 8 0 0 16 10 0 0 98 5 1 1 textures\occa.tga 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1

Now to see if I can implement it in BG.


Edit: ALL hail to myself!!!!

Used the muslim assassin texture I had in BG and copy\renamed it occa.tga

--- descr_character - named character section ---

faction            england
dictionary        2
strat_model        occa
battle_model    Northern_General
battle_equip    gladius, chainmail shirt helmet and rectangular shield

--- descr_model_strat, cloned norther_general entry

type                occa
skeleton            strat_named_with_army
scale                0.7
indiv_range            40
texture                england, models_strat/textures/occa.tga
model_flexi_m            models_strat/occa.CAS, max
shadow_model_flexi        models_strat/shadow_sword.CAS, max

Tried the same with the larger incbones model and it converted as well, the game however crashed after accessing the CAS file. Which means somewhere between 6.600 (reduced) and 7.800 (incbones) vertices is the dead line.

[Mr_Nygren]

GOAT tossed this into my face when I tried a straight converting to CAS, nothing got converted. The bottom line is about the standard model comment. I'll check on the value will see if saving in Milkshape 1.8.4 changes anything or what else might need a correction. No luck with Grumpy's converter either.

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Programs\Python26\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1410, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\_GameObjectApplicationToolbox_v1_1.py", line 2345, in convertms3dtocasButton
    ms3d2casConverter( ms3dfilename, casfilename )
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\_GameObjectApplicationToolbox_v1_1.py", line 490, in ms3d2casConverter
    ms3dobj.fromfile( fnms3d )
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\GameObjectApplicationLibrary_v1_1.py", line 12757, in fromfile
    self.definetoplevelinfo( ms3dfilename )
  File "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\_Mod Stuf\Modelling\GameObjectApplicationLibrary_v1_1.py", line 12959, in definetoplevelinfo
    self.boundingsphere = [ float( tokens[0] ), float( tokens[1] ), float( tokens[2] ), float( tokens[3] ) ]
ValueError: invalid literal for float(): 1 16 3 0 0 16 8 0 0 16 10 0 0 102 5 1 1 textures\Empire_capitan.tga 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Edit: added the missing comment for 'group', copied the 'model' comment from a convertible CAS file, saved in 1.8.4 and then tried to convert - still the same error message. 'group' comment:

1 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 -0.0 0.0 -0.0

model comment

1 16 3 0 0 16 8 0 0 16 10 0 0 103 5 1 1 textures\random.tga 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Reckon something happened when you ripped the arms off and then reattached them, Paleolegos might know more.

The above comments work in GOAT as well as with Grumpy's

I did just download Mak's latest model at about 3k verts/counts. Should the model comment have random.tga in it? Or should it keep the empire_capitan-line?

[Mr_Nygren]

Progress!!

Used a much older commenting set, saved with 1.8.4 and converted with GOAT:

model - blank, nothing, nada

-- group --
1 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

--- material ---
3.200000 38 9 0 1.83333337307 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 1 2 3 1 5 6 6 8 9 6 11 12 6 14 15 1 17 18
0.00000  0.01667  0.03333  0.05000  0.06667  0.08333  0.10000  0.11667  0.13333  0.15000  0.16667  0.18333  0.20000  0.21667  0.23333  0.25000  0.26667  0.28333  0.30000  0.31667  0.33333  0.35000  0.36667  0.38333  0.40000  0.41667  0.43333  0.45000  0.46667  0.48333  0.50000  0.51667  0.53333  0.55000  0.56667  0.58333  0.60000  0.61667  0.63333  0.65000  0.66667  0.68333  0.70000  0.71667  0.73333  0.75000  0.76667  0.78333  0.80000  0.81667  0.83333  0.85000  0.86667  0.88333  0.90000  0.91667  0.93333  0.95000  0.96667  0.98333  1.00000  1.01667  1.03333  1.05000  1.06667  1.08333  1.10000  1.11667  1.13333  1.15000  1.16667  1.18333  1.20000  1.21667  1.23333  1.25000  1.26667  1.28333  1.30000  1.31667  1.33333  1.35000  1.36667  1.38333  1.40000  1.41667  1.43333  1.45000  1.46667  1.48333  1.50000  1.51667  1.53333  1.55000  1.56667  1.58333  1.60000  1.61667  1.63333  1.65000  1.66667  1.68333  1.70000  1.71667  1.73333  1.75000  1.76667  1.78333  1.80000  1.81667  1.83333
18 1 0 0 0 64190 2 1
1 16 3 0 0 16 8 0 0 16 10 0 0 98 5 1 1 textures\occa.tga 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.588235318661 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1

Now to see if I can implement it in BG.


Edit: ALL hail to myself!!!!

Used the muslim assassin texture I had in BG and copy\renamed it occa.tga

--- descr_character - named character section ---

faction            england
dictionary        2
strat_model        occa
battle_model    Northern_General
battle_equip    gladius, chainmail shirt helmet and rectangular shield

--- descr_model_strat, cloned norther_general entry

type                occa
skeleton            strat_named_with_army
scale                0.7
indiv_range            40
texture                england, models_strat/textures/occa.tga
model_flexi_m            models_strat/occa.CAS, max
shadow_model_flexi        models_strat/shadow_sword.CAS, max

Tried the same with the larger incbones model and it converted as well, the game however crashed after accessing the CAS file. Which means somewhere between 6.600 (reduced) and 7.800 (incbones) vertices is the dead line.

Interesting, so where am i supposed to put the larger bulk of comment text under "material"?

The first line is for the group-comment. There should be no model comment? And the wall of text should be in the file using notepad++?

Edit:

I did manage to convert it but i do get a CTD in the middle of the loading. If you could send me that version that worked for you i could test it.

Hyrule do need the 4gb patch applied.

[makanyane]

Apart from proving if the size works that .cas won't help much as I didn't get as far as assigning the arms to arm bones...

If you can hang on till Friday I can dig my old computer out - OH thinks that's still got python 2. (and possibly the older milkshape) on it - then I should be able to try converting and testing without having to pass things around!

[Gigantus]

Interesting, so where am i supposed to put the larger bulk of comment text under "material"?

The first line is for the group-comment. There should be no model comment? And the wall of text should be in the file using notepad++?

Well, you only have those three tabs where you can enter comments: model, group, material. 'model' should be a blank entry, 'group' the first part, and 'material' requires highlighting the material entry so you can enter a comment. Simply copy the wall of text from the code box and then save it in a TXT file for future use before entering it in the comment box of that selected material (the entry for body texture in case of multiple entries)

The TGA entry in the comment should be adjusted to whatever you have named your default file, the models (CAS & M3SD) in the ZIP file use occa.tga, simply rename your texture when trying it out. It will also show you exactly how the comments are done. But as Mak said - while it will be on the strat map it won't be of much use as everything is allocated to one bone.

If you can hang on till Friday I can dig my old computer out - OH thinks that's still got python 2. (and possibly the older milkshape) on it - then I should be able to try converting and testing without having to pass things around!

I think it will work with 1.8.5 as well - and here is a link to the required python version (my standard quote )

Make sure you have a Python version less then 2.7 installed, else install from the applicable download link
Windows x86 MSI Installer (2.6.6) - for 'regular' operating system
Windows X86-64 MSI Installer (2.6.6) - for 64 bit operating system

[Mr_Nygren]

"Apart from proving if the size works that .cas won't help much as I didn't get as far as assigning the arms to arm bones...

If you can hang on till Friday I can dig my old computer out - OH thinks that's still got python 2. (and possibly the older milkshape) on it - then I should be able to try converting and testing without having to pass things around!"

Yes, that's entirely fine by me. I'll try to finish the rest of the unfinished bits of the submod before the end of friday so that it can be uploaded soon after i get the general into the mod and working.

It's a pretty big update by now - and probably the last one.

[Mr_Nygren]

"Well, you only have those three tabs where you can enter comments: model, group, material. 'model' should be a blank entry, 'group' the first part, and 'material' requires highlighting the material entry so you can enter a comment. Simply copy the wall of text from the code box and then save it in a TXT file for future use before entering it in the comment box of that selected material (the entry for body texture in case of multiple entries)

The TGA entry in the comment should be adjusted to whatever you have named your default file, the models (CAS & M3SD) in the ZIP file use occa.tga, simply rename your texture when trying it out. It will also show you exactly how the comments are done. But as Mak said - while it will be on the strat map it won't be of much use as everything is allocated to one bone."

I did add the "material" comment to the proper comment-area, the group-comment under the comment for "group" and i left the comment of the "model" empty.

I then renamed the files of the textures to Oocca and renamed your entries to Oocca instead of "occa". Unlike in the past the game didn't CTD two sec after clicking "start campaign"- but in the middle of the loading screen.

I then tried to simply use the entries of my old code in the modelstrat-file- and the mod still caused a CTD in the middle of the loading.

My converted file is converted through Goat v 1.1 Bugfixrelease.

So unlike you i failed to get the model into the game.

[makanyane]

I've got the reduced version in (had some spare time today and got old computer working) - model has a couple of issues - Mr_N I'll pm you about a 'design issue' later

main problem atm is she moves like she's got broken arms - I think the assignment is right and am guessing the problem is that the verts for the hands etc are too far away from the hand joint position - so a little rotation of the joint is throwing the 'hand' a long way from the elbow!


does anyone know if moving the joint positions in the ms3d works? Or do they default back to a position set in the skeleton????

[Gigantus]

I then renamed the files of the textures to Oocca and renamed your entries to Oocca instead of "occa". Unlike in the past the game didn't CTD two sec after clicking "start campaign"- but in the middle of the loading screen.

Unless you changed the TGA entry in the M3SD file as well and then converted it to CAS that's exactly what will happen as you now don't have a default texture. Add a occa.tga file (the default in my CAS model) to your models_strat\textures folder and it should work even if you use Oocca.tga in the descr_models_strat file.

does anyone know if moving the joint positions in the ms3d works? Or do they default back to a position set in the skeleton????

If you adjust the skeleton hen you need to adjust the animation as well - had myself a massive laughing fit when the first dwarfs in TATW came out: some of the animation sequences were still vanilla and the guys ended up like on stilts when changing direction.

Guess the only way out will be to adjust the height of the model to the skeleton., couple of smacks on the head should do the deed

[makanyane]

If you adjust the skeleton hen you need to adjust the animation as well - had myself a massive laughing fit when the first dwarfs in TATW came out: some of the animation sequences were still vanilla and the guys ended up like on stilts when changing direction.

erm, yes - I'd just tried it in the interim - now I know how to make spiders...


is extent of original problem - that's using what I think is the "standard" joint positions (taken from another .cas & checked against vanilla)


is what happens when I try moving the joints - also is very similar to what happens when I try using the skeleton that was in the original very large ms3d for this model.


is what the standard joint positions look like


is the joint positions that came with the initial very large file - as they're even further away from the model's arms I'm not surprised that it looks worse BUT as it's a distinctly different shape I'm not sure if the model was designed to be based on a different animation? Hyrule does seem to have some modified strat skeletons...
So DOES ANYONE RECOGNISE THAT SKELETON SHAPE? I can't figure out if it being in there is cock-up or design...

[Mr_Nygren]

erm, yes - I'd just tried it in the interim - now I know how to make spiders...


is extent of original problem - that's using what I think is the "standard" joint positions (taken from another .cas & checked against vanilla)


is what happens when I try moving the joints - also is very similar to what happens when I try using the skeleton that was in the original very large ms3d for this model.


is what the standard joint positions look like


is the joint positions that came with the initial very large file - as they're even further away from the model's arms I'm not surprised that it looks worse BUT as it's a distinctly different shape I'm not sure if the model was designed to be based on a different animation? Hyrule does seem to have some modified strat skeletons...
So DOES ANYONE RECOGNISE THAT SKELETON SHAPE? I can't figure out if it being in there is cock-up or design...

I had two Oocca strat-models made by Bantu Chieftain from the battle model that Neph created.

One is based off of the Warcraft Orc Captain in use by the Horde. I thought that one were less good looking, as it's a little more "fat"- so i decided to send you the other one thinking it were properly rigged. The issue is i have no idea what he based it on. Probably the Scourge Lich but i'm not sure.

The reason it may be based on the Lich is that it should have the same way of moving as it.

Edit:

Both Oocca models should be in the models_strat-folder- both as MS3D and as .CAS.

You'll see that one is wider than the other, and it's based on the Horde Grunt- the other most likely the Lich.

[makanyane]

Edit:

Both Oocca models should be in the models_strat-folder- both as MS3D and as .CAS.

You'll see that one is wider than the other, and it's based on the Horde Grunt- the other most likely the Lich.

aaahhh, looking at both:
the fat one

is on the normal skeleton joint positions - and her arms are only assigned to 'upperArm' and 'elbow'

The skinny one

appears to be on special skeleton/joint positions - and her arms are assigned to 'upperArm', 'elbow' AND 'hand' - which is what I did on re-assigning things.


If we can't figure out what the skeleton was that the skinny version was designed for she should probably work if just assigned to upperArm/elbow like the one on the normal skeleton

(that's being optimistic - as the files are too large to load I'm not sure how it would have been tested)


P.S. if the special animation is in Warcraft or other mod, I'm not volunteering to try importing it to Hyrule...

[Mr_Nygren]

aaahhh, looking at both:
the fat one

is on the normal skeleton joint positions - and her arms are only assigned to 'upperArm' and 'elbow'

The skinny one

appears to be on special skeleton/joint positions - and her arms are assigned to 'upperArm', 'elbow' AND 'hand' - which is what I did on re-assigning things.


If we can't figure out what the skeleton was that the skinny version was designed for she should probably work if just assigned to upperArm/elbow like the one on the normal skeleton

(that's being optimistic - as the files are too large to load I'm not sure how it would have been tested)


P.S. if the special animation is in Warcraft or other mod, I'm not volunteering to try importing it to Hyrule...

I'm pretty sure that the animation used are from Warcraft, and they are in turn from Warhammer BotET.

I got the Oocca general into the mod now, and i've made it a priest and a diplomat as well as an inquisitor as well.

It moves well, it looks alright- the only time when the arm stretch is when it attacks. But i didn't think it looked that bad and you will hardly notice it unless you are trying to look for it.

It looked horrendous on your picture- maybe that was the other one out of the two you sent? I only used the one on a normal skeleton. I didn't even try the other one!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Gigantus]

Well, whatever that skeleton was in the model I worked with it certainly wasn't standard, see comparison. Check the center axis (green\purple lines) of the right hand model as well:

[Gigantus]

OK, I did a quick and dirty with the reduced model, you guys can take it from there (proper rigging is still needed):

• exported it as OBJ file
  
• converted and opened my trusty diplomat.cas file
  
• deleted it's group (only skeleton remains)
  
• imported the OBJ file
  
• adjusted the size of the model to the skeleton (needed to pull the skirt a bit down after resizing ), if those wings were supposed to be on the hips and not the waist then knock yourselves out with some fancy modelling quicksteps.
  
• assigned the complete model to the cloak backbone (makes it easy to check for unassigned vertices later)
  
• reduced entries in the 'materials' tab to the top 'figure' line (diplomat entries were still in there)
  
• adjusted comments as per my post
  
• defined the default texture as Oocca.tga
  
• saved as Oocca,m3sd
  
• GOAT converted to cas without a problem
  
• after adjusting descr_model_strat to the new model\texture names (additional capital O prefix) it worked just a as fine as in the initial pic

Download here

[Mr_Nygren]

OK, I did a quick and dirty with the reduced model, you guys can take it from there (proper rigging is still needed):

• exported it as OBJ file
  
• converted and opened my trusty diplomat.cas file
  
• deleted it's group (only skeleton remains)
  
• imported the OBJ file
  
• adjusted the size of the model to the skeleton (needed to pull the skirt a bit down after resizing ), if those wings were supposed to be on the hips and not the waist then knock yourselves out with some fancy modelling quicksteps.
  
• assigned the complete model to the cloak backbone (makes it easy to check for unassigned vertices later)
  
• reduced entries in the 'materials' tab to the top 'figure' line (diplomat entries were still in there)
  
• adjusted comments as per my post
  
• defined the default texture as Oocca.tga
  
• saved as Oocca,m3sd
  
• GOAT converted to cas without a problem
  
• after adjusting descr_model_strat to the new model\texture names (additional capital O prefix) it worked just a as fine as in the initial pic

Download here

The model i am using is fine with the exception of the hand which is stretching. But it's much better than what Makayane previewed on her post. The arms doesn't stretch - unlike the hand.

Your model might be better though as it seems to be more close to the skeleton when it comes to the arms.

[makanyane]

Thanks Gig, That is working a lot better - I'm just tweaking the bone assignments and will send revised version

[Gigantus]

What I described is basically how I do all my strat models (plus detailed rigging obviously) - even M2TW battle models require that as the skeleton is different from the strat version if memory serves.

There is an old tut around that describes the method (see my rescue PDF link in there for the missing pics), it also nicely describes the rigging as well as the bone cloak method I mentioned.

[Mr_Nygren]

What I described is basically how I do all my strat models (plus detailed rigging obviously) - even M2TW battle models require that as the skeleton is different from the strat version if memory serves.

There is an old tut around that describes the method (see my rescue PDF link in there for the missing pics), it also nicely describes the rigging as well as the bone cloak method I mentioned.

The main difference between the battle-models and the strat-models is that the strat-models have only one group (the entire body) while the battle-models have many groups such as torso, head, weapon, shield, legs, hands, arms etc.

I still tried to turn a Gerudo Diplomat/assassin model into a battle-model by simply converting it, and then adding the weapons to the model from a different unit by using the Modeller's Toolbox- the model looked fine in MS3D and surprisingly worked in the game. But one of the legs became glitched while the other leg looked fine. When writing to Bantu Chieftain about this he explained that certain models could work by simply converting them, even if they only use one group for the entire body and then additional groups for the weapons/shields. But he wrote that the model in question couldn't look any better unless rigged based on a battle-model skeleton.

So it's possible to convert strat-models to battle-models directly- but certain parts like the legs might end up glitched.

Edit:

I wrote this on dec 18 2018 in the proper thread:

"- I did also work on a Gerudo unit that i converted from a strat-model after advice from Bantu. Then i did add older Gerudadorf weapons to it and did UV-map all the weapons - ten different blades i believe. Unfortunately the left leg were glitched and until that is fixed with Bantu's help it can't be properly used. Also, it may not fit in 3.6 as it is a HQ model."


The model ended up not holding it's weapons properly, but that would have been an easy fix for Bantu- the main issue was one of the legs. I still do not know why one of the legs looked fine while the other didn't. I spent an evening adding ten different weapons to it and UV-maping them all. The model might be a new HD-model from HTW 4.6, and in use as a diplomat in my submod (assassin in HTW 4.6) but for some reason Neph didn't use it as a battle-model- and i thought it looked good so i attempted to add it. In the old HTW there exists a similar unit.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: