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Thread: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

  1. #1

    Default Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    I've recently bought Three Kingdoms and only played it for a week. The game is good (I cannot deny) but I just can't get into it. I was the same with Warhammer, Britannia and Attila before that. Even though I still have a bit of fun with Rome 2 using DEI, do you think after 20 years, it's time to accept, I'm getting bored with it all? Anyone else feel the same?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    I felt the same after i played Hearts of Iron IV and then could not touch Total War at all. Then i got bored to that and kept couple months break from both series and now i forgot the complexity HOI IV had and im happy with 3K now

  3. #3
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    I think I can understand the feeling. After 20 years and experience with every TW up to 3K, I can imagine, prepare and anticipate almost any scenario. One game of ToB and I have very good idea how will play against next Normans/Vikings Invasion. I can prepare for it. One game og Shogun 2 and I can easily prepare in next campaign and "game" the game itself. Same with Chaos invasion in WH or Vortex race. Same with ordinary turns. While I still enjoy usual campaign turn management, fighting battles actually is often disturbing. There is simply rarely occasion or need for my personal intervention. I often roleplay my campaigns...to get achievements or to fullfill of bonus missions before hitting chapter (R2/Attila/Whs) and so and so.

    I think this is the next biggest problem for TW series. Finally change battles little more. After Wh(s),ToB and now 3K, I very pleased with improvements to the campaign side, faction variations, differencies, characters...But battles, battles are way similar in each title. I would suggest greater role of terrain. I already wrote once my idea about future battles what could there and having multiple sub commanders is actually move into right direction. But the battle still usually is about one massive "blob" of units. I would much more prefer more smaller local skirmishes each one having small influence onto overall battle. Vanguard, rearguard, flanking, scouting, baggage train...different commanders with bonuses for diferent roles. With traits and stats and units....I donīt know. Simply having more interactive battle not only in terms of formations and few abilities but reacting to terrain, weather, enviroment....things like setting forest to fire. Beter hiding vs scouting...Simply having reason to fight manually more battles and ensure that battles are more varied.

    Imagine if you start battle with scouting/vanguard units only. With reinforcement coming from a few different points on your side of campaign map. Center, flanks...Simply I want the ability to react to multiple different opportunities on battlefield. Oh..here i can flank, oh here the enviroment is good/bad for me, oh here is the trap, oh now there is barricade..fire...One of most boring factors as of lately is that battles are common (not problem) but I usually have army which is in no decent danger for autoresolving (due to stacking correctly things like armors, unit compositions...) and even in case of bigger loses, replenishment is quick to negate that. Iīm not calling for removing auto replenishment, that is not the problem. Problem is the majority of battles have low impact on my strategy and just rarely there is battle I have to manually control.

  4. #4
    La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham's Avatar Artifex♔Duffer♔Civitate
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    No I am not jaded per-se, however pike and sword since Rome2 has become a little "samey"| I'd like to see Empire 2, with something other than the warscape engine .
    Tally ho!

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  5. #5
    Lionheart11's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Rome 2 was a inbreed abomination child in the basement of the franchise and really hurt but although i was never a fan of Warhammer, i enjoyed that game more than im doing with this so far. Maybe its the diversity in that game. This game feels complex but armies are more like clones.
    Last edited by Lionheart11; June 14, 2019 at 03:09 AM.
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  6. #6
    Basileos Leandros I's Avatar Writing is an art
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    TW needs a new battle engine to make battles different.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. Forever remembered.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Opt in to the bera fella's no reason to play vs the worse battleAI any longer than needed.

    Ai is actually defending their archers but in individual groups of an archer or 2 + 1-2 spears
    while their cavalry is either cheating to know where my hidden units are, or they're just very dutiful in scouting.

    They've been making sure most of my cavalry is otherwise engaged and
    needs attention to not run into a spear unit that is trying to protect their archers before they fully engaged me.

    Even then, instead of piling in on my front line part of their infantry is maneovering to engulf my front line rather than just mindlessly charging thw front.



    If they improve this some more we might just have a competent battleAI on our hands ^^

    Tbh what I wish they would do is make the AI emulate real top players, and have the personalities each be based on a different player.


    That would actually be insanely fun to play against IMO

    Like they used to do with racing games

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    ^Thing is, even if they do emulate the top players, chances are they'd only emulate specific plays. IE you'd just adapt your tactics to a specific play that a top player would use in some circumstances only. It'd probably be a giant improvement, but still exploitable.

    With machine learning being used in games like DotA2 to actually beat the pro players I do wonder if they can apply machine learning to actually create scripts which the battle 'AI' could use? Since it wouldn't be directly competing with a machine it shouldn't be OP.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Ya, burned out with it. Been playing for 10 years and lately a strange thing has happened. I've become a really bad player. I keep losing campaigns because I'm losing the tough battles. I just don't have the fight in me any more. It gets to a key settlement defense or a big battle where I'm outnumbered 2 to 1 and I either lose badly or just save and exit before fighting and never get back to that campaign. I tried Rise of the Republic but failed my first Rome attempt pretty quickly and exited out as soon as things got tough in my next attempt.

    Played only 100 hours in ThroB, but every time I start up another campaign I play the first battle against the rebels then exit. I barely played 30 hours in the 2 WHs combined. Start them up and shut them down before I can even choose a faction. I want to get 3K after it gets a workshop and blood, but you know maybe I shouldn't and just avoid playing TW for a few months.

  10. #10
    LestaT's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    I play now mostly for the campaigns. Except for the first few turns and maybe when unlocking new units I have mostly auto resolve battles.

    Not saying I'm bored with TW as a whole or even hate doing battles, it's just that I dont have as much time as before to manually play every battles.

    Attila was the last game I manually fight every battles, at least in the first campaign.

  11. #11
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    But battles, battles are way similar in each title. I would suggest greater role of terrain. I already wrote once my idea abut future battles what could there and having multiple sub commanders is actually move into right direction. But the battle still usually is about one massive "blob" of units. I would much more prefer more smaller local skirmishes each one having small influence onto overall battle. Vanguard, rearguard, flanking, scouting, baggage train...different commanders with bonuses for diferent roles. With traits and stats and units....I donīt know. Simply having more interactive battle not only in terms of formations and few abilities but reacting to terrain, weather, enviroment....things like setting forest to fire. Beter hiding vs scouting...Simply having reason to fight manually more battles and ensure that battles are more varied.

    Imagine if you start battle with scouting/vanguard units only. With reinforcement coming from a few different points on your side of campaign map. Center, flanks...Simply I want the ability to react to multiple different opportunities on battlefield. Oh..here i can flank, oh here the enviroment is good/bad for me, oh here is the trap, oh now there is barricade..fire...One of most boring factors as of lately is that battles are common (not problem) but I usually have army which is in no decent danger for autoresolving (due to stacking correctly things like armors, unit compositions...) and even in case of bigger loses, replenishment is quick to negate that. Iīm not calling for removing auto replenishment, that is not the problem. Problem is the majority of battles have low impact on my strategy and just rarely there is battle I have to manually control.
    I think it was also a problem for DarthVader and it's why he's made Ultimate General. The battles are in many facets up to this wish of yours - in the 19th century so in a bigger scale.

  12. #12
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    I feel you OP. I really like the campaign side of TW and while some battles are fun from time to time I get frustrated when I'm kinda forced to do a battle myself in the midst of an intense campaign because the auto-resolve wouldn't give the desired outcome.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    I think I can understand the feeling. After 20 years and experience with every TW up to 3K, I can imagine, prepare and anticipate almost any scenario. One game of ToB and I have very good idea how will play against next Normans/Vikings Invasion. I can prepare for it. One game og Shogun 2 and I can easily prepare in next campaign and "game" the game itself. Same with Chaos invasion in WH or Vortex race. Same with ordinary turns. While I still enjoy usual campaign turn management, fighting battles actually is often disturbing. There is simply rarely occasion or need for my personal intervention. I often roleplay my campaigns...to get achievements or to fullfill of bonus missions before hitting chapter (R2/Attila/Whs) and so and so.

    I think this is the next biggest problem for TW series. Finally change battles little more. After Wh(s),ToB and now 3K, I very pleased with improvements to the campaign side, faction variations, differencies, characters...But battles, battles are way similar in each title. I would suggest greater role of terrain. I already wrote once my idea about future battles what could there and having multiple sub commanders is actually move into right direction. But the battle still usually is about one massive "blob" of units. I would much more prefer more smaller local skirmishes each one having small influence onto overall battle. Vanguard, rearguard, flanking, scouting, baggage train...different commanders with bonuses for diferent roles. With traits and stats and units....I donīt know. Simply having more interactive battle not only in terms of formations and few abilities but reacting to terrain, weather, enviroment....things like setting forest to fire. Beter hiding vs scouting...Simply having reason to fight manually more battles and ensure that battles are more varied.

    Imagine if you start battle with scouting/vanguard units only. With reinforcement coming from a few different points on your side of campaign map. Center, flanks...Simply I want the ability to react to multiple different opportunities on battlefield. Oh..here i can flank, oh here the enviroment is good/bad for me, oh here is the trap, oh now there is barricade..fire...One of most boring factors as of lately is that battles are common (not problem) but I usually have army which is in no decent danger for autoresolving (due to stacking correctly things like armors, unit compositions...) and even in case of bigger loses, replenishment is quick to negate that. Iīm not calling for removing auto replenishment, that is not the problem. Problem is the majority of battles have low impact on my strategy and just rarely there is battle I have to manually control.
    Some very interesting points regarding terrain and tactical improvements in battle. To be honest, even after 20 years, I still don't know what advantages you get from being on a hill

  14. #14
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?



    I would point to this battle at very beginning of video. It is 2vs4 armies situation, lot unit slowly coming onto battlefield and for whatever reason main easy plan - using Lord Kroak main spell is not working, well MilkandCookies actually managed to fire it just twice. Probably due to location (Black Pyramid) and enemy heroes magic suppression. Point is, there is so many things going on..magic, large units, flying units.

    Now forget all the fancy reasons for large units, flying units, magic,heroes. It doenīt matter. What is mattering is that player has to react to development of battle. It is not neccessary something magical, it could be as well part of city catching fire or disembarkment of troops in city harbour...Not only for 19 century, I wish more complex battle regardless of setting. Not so long ago I was hunting achievements for ToB and there is one which require playing manually all battles. 90%+ battles were very similar...

  15. #15

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Aside from the dull tactical options of battle recently mentioned above, another thing is the pointlessness of battles. Even if you win a great victory, the AI will come back stronger than ever because you've kindly scrubbed out their lower tier units to make room for higher tiers. Also the AI is bloated with cheats so they can replace entire armies faster than you can replenish your damaged units. By all reports the same AI stack spam plagues 3K, augmented by the vassal swarms. ThroB went some way towards fixing this, but the rosters and campaign are so lifeless instead.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    I think it would be totally great if CA could pull off such thing as adaptive auto-resolve system. So basically it should calculate how particular player is doing throughout the different campaign battles and give you higher chance to win the battles if you have proven that you much better than average player in selected scenarios.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Vardano, you genius!
    That would save me sooo much time of battles I am 99% sure I'd win but the auto resolve thinks it's doomed.

  18. #18
    pajomife's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Quote Originally Posted by large jack View Post
    I've recently bought Three Kingdoms and only played it for a week. The game is good (I cannot deny) but I just can't get into it. I was the same with Warhammer, Britannia and Attila before that. Even though I still have a bit of fun with Rome 2 using DEI, do you think after 20 years, it's time to accept, I'm getting bored with it all? Anyone else feel the same?
    My breaking point was with Napoleon. I've never felt bored before with a TW game, now I can't play 20 hours before get bored. In the opposite side, I have 3000 hours in Company of heroes 2, I must play at least one on line battle every single day.
    Last edited by pajomife; June 17, 2019 at 07:08 AM.

  19. #19
    Anna_Gein's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    The biggest trouble for me is the campaign mode. I struggle to keep interest in a campaign after 50 turns.

    Three Kingdoms is a nice game but paradoxically I miss the simplicity of Warhammer II.

    It is a little bit awkward to admit it since I am an History enthusiast and I have argued in favour of deeper campaign gameplay for years on this website. Yet I find Three Kingdom campaign to be unnecessarily complicated and difficult to deal with. In part because if the bad UI but not only.

    Warhammer II campaign have less features to offer but it is a no brainer experience and it frequently rewards the players for following through his campaign. Just the more numerous building slots in the capital city and the many location specific buildings make it so much more enjoyable.

    I wish Three Kingdom was more this way. Sadly Three Kingdoms is closer to R2 and Attila, two games that punish the player in order to provide "more interesting choices" according to the devs In addition I think the system of limited recruitment options based on your generals classes is harming the game. It limits your recruitment options which in turn makes battles more monotonous.
    Last edited by Anna_Gein; June 19, 2019 at 06:20 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is anyone else feeling a bit jaded with Total War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    In addition I think the system of limited recruitment options based on your generals classes is harming the game. It limits your recruitment options which in turn makes battles more monotonous.
    I actually enjoy this mechanic, since it provides an additional strategic layer to the game. I only disagree with units regenerating every 2 turns, taking the EXACT problem people had with Attila (regenerating armies) and making it even bigger.

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