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Thread: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

  1. #21
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    A country's laws have nothing to do with modding. Contrary to what some modder want to believe they do not have exclusive rights to their mods once published for public use. The only protection you have is via a gentleman's agreement among modders to not use another modder's work without permission or credit and the terms of Service agreement as per websites/ forums. There are NO legal percussion or legal action that can be taken for using another person's mod.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Actually, a country laws has to do with modding, because the server for TWC is located in the US and thus US laws apply for TWC to follow and the same thing also applies for hosted mods on TWC Download.


    The only thing CA cannot take away from you are the resources you have created from scratch for a mod. But CA can prevent your mod for being redistributed as CA owns every modification for their games.


    That's pure nonsene as a gentleman's agreement doesn't exist among modders, instead it is the GPL that covers that and the official EULA of course.


    Yes there are legal aspects regarding modding.

    Let say you have a created something from scratch, a modding resource if you will, and you have stated in your permission that nobody can use your resource without your explicit permission.

    Now, let say somebody else are using your resource in a mod for personal use and later decide to release it then you can take action against the individual for copyright infringement in court if you wish.

    I know Ponti is a lawyer, perhaps he can share his insights in this.
    Sorry to intervene, I've read the Three Kingdoms EULA, and...
    1. SEGA wants to have every right on what you created and incorporated into mods they can get (meaning in Germany they can't get the intellectual property on models you have created because German law doesn't allow the transfer of intellectual property, only certain rights on it can be sold, leased, etc.) Even to include it into a new DLC if I'm correct.
    2. You need to let every player of the game play with your mod.

    So that's the EULA, meaning the contract you have with SEGA. But.... if I'm not mistaken this EULA would not stand in court in the EU due to costumers protection laws regarding standard form contracts (if you ever asked what the EU has done for you, here it is, Costumer Protection Laws) because SEGA wants to grab everything. Also interestingly in accordance to German Law, they don't want to have the rights on your intellectual property exclusively, so you can sell your models to a third party, SEGA has just the right to use them nonetheless.
    [Btw the law of the state you live in is applicable if you live in the EU, another part of the EU's Costumer Protection Laws)

    But that's just the SEGA side of things.

    Also here on TWC we all have a contract with TWC - the TOS we agreed on. Again here are standard form contract laws are applicable for every EU-Citizen (reason same as above) but that's just a side note. Because the TOS don't allow to Using Modders' Work Without Permission. Given a quick thought this would stand in any court in the EU. So you can not use the work of another modder without permission. Except for: Alternate mirrors are permitted for authorised uploads as long as full credit is given to the author(s).
    Also the Hex / GED can always allow you to use an old dead mod as a base for your new mod and submods should be generally allowed as this is common practice unless stated otherwise (no garantee on that!).

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  2. #22
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Let me try to clarify some things about basic copyrights and distribution-rights....

    ***

    For starters, SEGA have zero claims on anything that does not somehow require or build upon any of their materials as released and existing in the base game(s) (including DLC's or other expansions). This means, ANY material that stand apart from and beyond all that stuff, and ANY material that can still function in their own right (in a separate context), AND also have sufficient levels of originality - CAN and WILL be rightfully regarded as the creators property. Any material, that can and will qualify for that status will have basic legal standing due to general copy- and distribution-rights. Usually the creator holds these rights, even commercially, unless traded/sold away. In this case SEGA can do zilch about it, as they will have no claim in such a case. As such relevant materials will stand on its own - apart - from SEGA's material. All such material is by definition the original creators property - to do with and decide over in whatever way he/she pleases. Period. And, any such stuff can still be included or incorporated into a mod, if the modder in question wishes it - and have the skills to make it happen...

    Now, the only way SEGA can ever make a claim is once something require or rely upon ANY of SEGA's materials in order to function or exist. If you ever use or rely upon SEGA-materials somehow then the result will ultimately be SEGA who holds all rights to it, as long as it is possible to identify it as derivative of SEGA's materials. Period. Because then SEGA will have a credible and rightful claim on it...

    Lastly, if a mod contains both SEGA-dependent and derivative materials AND other original material created by the modder personally - then both, as rights-holders will have a say about that package - in terms of public use and distribution. Any commercial use will not be possible as long as any SEGA parts or dependent materials are included, of course (as that would be piracy). Usually, it is obvious stuff like audio, music and various GFX that can be sorted out as unique quite easily. Beyond such cases it gets increasingly hard (fast) to claim and trace various materials as unique - apart from SEGA's stuff. Code for instance, is much more problematic as it is much harder to successfully distinguish then say (original) audio and various GFX....

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; June 16, 2019 at 02:33 PM. Reason: clarity...

  3. #23
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus Hortensius Hortalus View Post
    Except for: Alternate mirrors are permitted for authorised uploads as long as full credit is given to the author(s).
    No. Why? Because if the modder haven't stated anything about redistribution then any site that is hosting the mod in question cannot re-upload by request from other people than the original author.

    The only thing that allows that if a site have inherit the permission from the original author and that's called stewardship in the TES community like what I stated in my permission for my first Skyrim mod.

    However, if the modder have allowed redistribution then a site can re-upload a mod, but it's a common practice in a modding community (especially in the TES community) that people are still asking for permission even if it isn't necessary.
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    No. Why? Because if the modder haven't stated anything about redistribution then any site that is hosting the mod in question cannot re-upload by request from other people than the original author.

    The only thing that allows that if a site have inherit the permission from the original author and that's called stewardship in the TES community like what I stated in my permission for my first Skyrim mod.

    However, if the modder have allowed redistribution then a site can re-upload a mod, but it's a common practice in a modding community (especially in the TES community) that people are still asking for permission even if it isn't necessary.
    Would this effectively terminate any efforts to recover mod downloads in instances where the policy has not been defined and the modder cannot be contacted?

  5. #25
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Would this effectively terminate any efforts to recover mod downloads in instances where the policy has not been defined and the modder cannot be contacted?
    No, it would not.

    That's what purpose the Morrowind Modding History has and that's to be a permanent home for mods that's not gonna be updated and the original author have retired from modding.
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.

  6. #26
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    No. Why? Because if the modder haven't stated anything about redistribution then any site that is hosting the mod in question cannot re-upload by request from other people than the original author.
    The quote from you answer to was "Alternate mirrors are permitted for authorised uploads". And it's a part of TWC TOS. Are you implying the TOS are not valid?

    I think what it means if the author alredy gave the permission ("authorized uploads"), the alternate mirrors are allowed. Meaning here no modification at all, just a mirror in case the main host is unaivalable.

  7. #27
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    The quote from you answer to was "Alternate mirrors are permitted for authorised uploads". And it's a part of TWC TOS. Are you implying the TOS are not valid?

    I think what it means if the author alredy gave the permission ("authorized uploads"), the alternate mirrors are allowed. Meaning here no modification at all, just a mirror in case the main host is unaivalable.
    I think you answered your own question.

    What I mean is about "authorized uploads". Does it mean TWC already have permission from the original author at the same time he/she released a mod and posted a thread?
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.

  8. #28
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Questions about permissions for "dead" mods

    From a TWC point of view it should be noted that a mirror of a dead mod's original installation files (previously here linked) is deemed authorized - it's the base of the dormant vault initiative.
    It is recommended to contact modding staff before doing so as some upload sites are blocked in a variety of countries and other sites have a downright unsafe reputation. Staff will then arrange for the new download link to be placed in a prominent position, eg the original download thread\post.

    All other mirrors require the authorisation of the mod's creator\team leader.
    Last edited by Gigantus; June 17, 2019 at 03:37 AM.



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