Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

[AqD]

The people of Hong Kong (and Taiwan) continue the fight alone against communist tyranny, defying the Politburo’s manufactured display of strength and unity on the anniversary of the communist conquest of China. It’s inspiring to see that, despite all its wealth, power, and external bellicosity, the one thing Red China fears most is its own people. It’s tragic to think that if the West continues to put money over principles by tiptoeing around the Politburo, no amount of military might will save China’s neighbors from communist takeover. Hopefully the people of Hong Kong, who have long been educated and accustomed to democratic norms, will not be ground to dust by authoritarian force.

Eh, if they are really interested in fighting, they would have sought independence economically and socially. Instead they heavily rely on mainland for everything, and even increased dependence significantly after 97.

Best option is to move to UK while they still can.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Protest groups say 800,000 people participated in pro-democracy demonstrations Sunday, the latest in a series of anti-government protests that began in June.


Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators filled the streets of Hong Kong on Sunday in one of the biggest displays of public protest the semi-autonomous territory has seen in months.


https://www.vox.com/world/2019/12/8/...-december-2019

The courage, grit, and determination of these people never ceases to amaze me. May these brave souls forever raise their fists against the forces of communist tyranny, until the shackles of the Politburo are at last broken forever. Long live Hong Kong, free and independent.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Under Cover of Coronavirus, Hong Kong Cracks Down on Protest Movement

The arrests signaled a broader crackdown on the antigovernment movement that roiled the semiautonomous city last year, one of the most significant challenges to Communist Party rule in decades. Beijing and pro-government supporters in the city have called for lawmakers to pass national security laws that residents worry would allow the mainland authorities to further encroach upon the territory’s civic freedoms.

While opposition politicians have been included among the thousands of protest-related arrests over the past year, rarely have so many prominent pro-democracy figures been arrested at once.

Lau Siu-kai, vice president of the Chinese Association of Hong Kong and Macau Studies, a powerful Beijing advisory group, said that the arrests on Saturday represented an early step toward a broader crackdown by Beijing on the Hong Kong opposition.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/w...g-arrests.html

A reminder not to forget those brave souls who are battling Red China with nothing more than posters and umbrellas.

[irontaino]

Since we're in a pandemic, the politiburo can turn the public against the protesters saying they're cracking down in the name of preventing the spread.

[Infidel144]

Wouldn't China have to admit to a 'spread', then?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Lord Thesaurian]

China to impose sweeping national security law in Hong Kong, bypassing city’s legislature

China's Communist Party will impose a sweeping national security law in Hong Kong by fiat during the annual meeting of its top political body, officials said Thursday, criminalizing "foreign interference" along with secessionist activities and subversion of state power.

The move is the boldest yet from Beijing to undercut Hong Kong’s autonomy and bring the global financial hub under its full control, as it works to rewrite the “one country, two systems” framework that has allowed the territory to enjoy a level of autonomy for the past 23 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...641_story.html

And so it begins: An authoritarian one party state that puts ethnic and political undesirables in prison camps begins its quest for territorial expansion; first by degrees, then by annexation....and next? Well, we’ve been down this road before. Pray for the people of Hong Kong. At this point it’s all they’ve got.

[Aexodus]

The attempts to help China liberalise by opening it up to international trade have failed. We must begin reducing our trade with China as soon as possible, and impose sanctions for this action.

[RedGuard]

I mean can the imperialists in this thread even agree that Hong Kong is a part of china?

[Lord Thesaurian]

I mean can the imperialists in this thread even agree that Hong Kong is a part of china?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Consider learning more about the subject before commenting further:

Hong Kong was a colony of the United Kingdom, ruled by a governor appointed by the monarchy of the United Kingdom, for 156 years from 1841 (except for four years of Japanese occupation during WWII) until 1997, when it was returned to Chinese sovereignty. China agreed to accept some conditions, as is stipulated in the Sino-British Joint Declaration, such as the drafting and adoption of Hong Kong's "mini-constitution" Basic Law before its return.

The Hong Kong Basic Law ensured that Hong Kong will retain its capitalist economic system and own currency (the Hong Kong Dollar), legal system, legislative system, and same human rights and freedoms, as a special administrative region (SAR) of China for 50 years. Set to expire in 2047, the current arrangement has permitted Hong Kong to function as its own entity under the name "Hong Kong, China" in many international settings (e.g. the WTO and the Olympics).[1][2][3]
The Chinese Renminbi is not legal tender in Hong Kong. Likewise, the Hong Kong Dollar is not accepted in stores in mainland China. With this arrangement, a permit or special visa (Chinese: 簽注) is required when passing between the borders of Hong Kong and mainland China, and people in Hong Kong hold Hong Kong SAR passports rather than Chinese passports. The official languages are a major factor besides the history of the former colony that has made Hong Kong and mainland China distinct from each other, as Cantonese and English are the most widely used languages in Hong Kong while Mandarin is the official language of mainland China. The central government in Beijing maintains control over Hong Kong's foreign affairs as well as the legal interpretation of the Basic Law. The latter has led democracy advocates and some Hong Kong residents to argue that the territory has yet to achieve universal suffrage as promised by the Basic Law, leading to mass demonstrations in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

On Thursday, those authorities announced the most sweeping step yet, with proposed security laws that could effectively subvert Hong Kong’s remaining freedoms and bring it under full Chinese control.

Chinese officials in Beijing said the National People’s Congress, China’s Legislature, would review a plan to establish new laws and an enforcement mechanism for protecting national security in Hong Kong. The announcement provided no details but signaled that the new legislation would allow China’s central government more legal justification to directly respond to the large anti-Beijing protests that upended Hong Kong for much of the past year.

President Xi Jinping, the country’s most authoritarian leader since the Mao era, has viewed the Hong Kong unrest with impatience and exasperation, seeing it as a direct challenge to Communist Party primacy and legitimacy. Chinese government propaganda, under Mr. Xi’s direct control, has increasingly indicated the challenge would be crushed.


One possible catalyst for China’s announcement was the reluctance of Hong Kong’s own Legislature to enact toughened security laws under a provision of the territory’s basic law known as Article 23 — fearing such a move could incite even bigger anti-Beijing protests. The legislation that Beijing has proposed would allow it to bypass Hong Kong’s own legal structure for dealing with what are regarded as security threats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/w...urity-law.html

[Infidel144]

I mean can the imperialists in this thread even agree that Hong Kong is a part of china?

No. China should be part of Hong Kong.

[RedGuard]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Consider learning more about the subject before commenting further:

yeah and in 2047 Hong Kong will lose its special arrangement.

Its still a part of China. Thus even though they made an agreement with an irrelevant foreign power and Hong Kong itself, Hong Kong is still a subject of China. China can do whatever it wants with it, or Hong Kong can attempt to break away and realize how alone it really is.

In the same way a new president can change the federal laws of a country, but state law takes precedence, U.S. federal law overrides any state law where justified by the constitution.

[Lord Thesaurian]

yeah and in 2047 Hong Kong will lose its special arrangement.

Its still a part of China. Thus even though they made an agreement with an irrelevant foreign power and Hong Kong itself, Hong Kong is still a subject of China. China can do whatever it wants with it, or Hong Kong can attempt to break away and realize how alone it really is.

No, the Politburo can’t “do whatever it wants with it,” objectively speaking.

In the same way a new president can change the federal laws of a country, but state law takes precedence, U.S. federal law overrides any state law where justified by the constitution.

This is an objectively false comparison, as cited.

To the censored portion of your point though, the question is why you feel compelled to assert (incorrectly) that the Politburo can “do whatever it wants” in this situation, whilst insinuating the protests and international support for the rights of Hong Kongers under the Basic Law are some kind of “imperialist trojan horse” false flag operation.

Adding an accusation of “dumb hypocrisy” to boot merely prefaces the boilerplate whataboutist deflections that inevitably follow this rationale as a stopgap narrative. This is an oddly familiar refrain, after all. Where have we heard it before? Certainly, there’s the defense of Soviet crackdowns on satellite territories in the 50s and 60s, whence we get the term “tankie.” But perhaps ironically, the CCP didn’t feel the need to rewrite the narrative either; not in 89, and not in 2019-2020:

China’s Theory for Hong Kong Protests: Secret American Meddling

The woman, Julie Eadeh, a political counselor, has become a central figure in a growing Chinese narrative that Hong Kong’s protests are the work of traitors who are being directed by foreign, particularly American, “black hands” bent on fomenting an uprising in the former British colony.

CCTV, China’s state broadcaster, described Ms. Eadeh on Thursday as “the behind-the-scenes black hand creating chaos in Hong Kong.”

Ta Kung Pao, a Hong Kong newspaper controlled by the Communist Party, published a photograph, taken on Tuesday, of the diplomat standing in the lobby of a luxury hotel with pro-democracy student leaders under the headline “Foreign Forces Intervene, Seek to Stir ‘Color Revolution.’” It said it had received the photo from unidentified patriotic “netizens.”

The newspaper described Ms. Eadeh, a graduate in Arab studies from Georgetown University, as “a mysterious and low-profile expert on subversion.”

The “black hand” allegations aired on Thursday against Ms. Eadeh mimic almost word for word Chinese propaganda 30 years ago against the leaders of the pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen Square.

The accusations of foreign meddling are a sign that Beijing, already bitterly at odds with Washington over trade, has decided to add Hong Kong to its list of grievances against the United States.

The belief that the State Department is coordinating and even orchestrating the Hong Kong protests feeds into a narrative that dates back to the Cold War, when the United States and the Soviet Union each sought to subvert the other’s ideology and its proxy states with spies and subterfuge.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/w...lack-hand.html

[tgoodenow]

yeah and in 2047 Hong Kong will lose its special arrangement.

Its still a part of China. Thus even though they made an agreement with an irrelevant foreign power and Hong Kong itself, Hong Kong is still a subject of China. China can do whatever it wants with it, or Hong Kong can attempt to break away and realize how alone it really is.

In the same way a new president can change the federal laws of a country, but state law takes precedence, U.S. federal law overrides any state law where justified by the constitution.

China can do whatever it wants with Hong Kong, but the world is free to respond in whatever manner they choose. This move may get ignored by the world community like the Muslim concentration camps are. I think China is overplaying it's hand unless they are already expecting serious repercussions from their corona virus mishaps.

[Aexodus]

In the handover of Hong Kong to the PRC, it was agreed that Beijing would not fundamentally violate Hong Kong's autonomy. They can't simply do whatever they want, unless they impose it by force.

[RedGuard]

but is it a false narrative to claim that a rightful part of china that was stolen from it in the 19th century and returned 23 years ago, is in fact a rightful part of china? If thats a no, then talking about internal relations among Chinese people is kind of moot.

This isn't the same as the USSR cracking down on Prague Spring or whatever. The difference should be clear enough to anyone I don't feel like I even need to explain it.

the United States is fine with authoritarianism btw.

China can do whatever it wants with Hong Kong, but the world is free to respond in whatever manner they choose

I agree, in the same way those same people that want to liberalise china through a former british colony are open as well to ridicule.

it was agreed

yeah as if the UK hasn't broken hundreds of agreements. China made that agreement to get a piece of china back, now that its back, that agreement. It'd be like if the British seized Florida in 1830 but gave it back to the United States with the promise that they wouldn't actually try to integrate it back in. And I mean independence is always an option for the Hong Kongers.

[Aexodus]

So if they want, Hong Kong, can secede? And what’s happening there is being done with the support of the Hong Kong masses?

ha

[Cope]

but is it a false narrative to claim that a rightful part of china that was stolen from it in the 19th century and returned 23 years ago, is in fact a rightful part of china? If thats a no, then talking about internal relations among Chinese people is kind of moot.

All people have the right to self-determination. The CCP, in direction violation of the understanding that was reached in 1997, has has a clear and unequivocal agenda to suppress that right in Hong Kong. Medievalist arguments about "historic rights" are nothing more than a distraction; you might as well be trying to argue that the UK has a right to annex the RoI because of England's 12th century technical rule over the Lordship of Ireland.

This isn't the same as the USSR cracking down on Prague Spring or whatever. The difference should be clear enough to anyone I don't feel like I even need to explain it.

The comparison to the USSR is valid. The CPP is an overbearing authoritarian state issuing diktats.

the United States is fine with authoritarianism btw.

Whataboutism.

I agree, in the same way those same people that want to liberalise china through a former british colony are open as well to ridicule.

You seem to say that with a sense of smug satisfaction - as if you endorse the sort of politics propagated by the CCP. I dare say if you were under the CCP's jurisdiction you would not have the right to ridicule as you saw fit.

yeah as if the UK hasn't broken hundreds of agreements.

Whataboutism.

China made that agreement to get a piece of china back, now that its back, that agreement. It'd be like if the British seized Florida in 1830 but gave it back to the United States with the promise that they wouldn't actually try to integrate it back in. And I mean independence is always an option for the Hong Kongers.

The substantive violation is of the understanding between the CCP and the people of Hong Kong, not of the agreement with the British government. Claiming that the "independence is always an option" for Hong Kong as if the CCP is going to offer them a peaceful choice is the most disingenuous thing you've said so far.

[Lord Thesaurian]

but is it a false narrative to claim that a rightful part of china that was stolen from it in the 19th century and returned 23 years ago, is in fact a rightful part of china? If thats a no, then talking about internal relations among Chinese people is kind of moot.

This isn't the same as the USSR cracking down on Prague Spring or whatever. The difference should be clear enough to anyone I don't feel like I even need to explain it.

We’ve established objectively that the parameters of HK’s legal and political autonomy are not merely a matter of internal relations among the PRC, per conditions the latter explicitly agreed upon. The comparison to the Kremlin’s brutal crackdown on ostensibly semiautonomous satellites is self evident. It is only as necessary as the identical narratives being advanced to hurl accusations of imperialist false flags and hypocrisy at those who support HK’s rights under the Basic Law.

[RedGuard]

everything I like about governments I support: whataboutism

everything I don't like about governments I don't support: authoritarianism

So if they want, Hong Kong, can secede? And what’s happening there is being done with the support of the Hong Kong masses?

yes because it won't happen, and no because it isn't.

You seem to say that with a sense of smug satisfaction - as if you endorse the sort of politics propagated by the CCP. I dare say if you were under the CCP's jurisdiction you would not have the right to ridicule as you saw fit.

I say that with smug satisfaction because I actually study history. And finally the "democratization" of the United States fails somewhere, finally its met its match. Too bad so many south Americans, Latin Americans, Africans and Asians had to die before hand. American exceptionalism is a bad joke. At least the Chinese build things before they steal from you. Americans just bomb you.

this is why I support Trump. Under his leadership the influence of the USA will only get weaker. Case in point his complete silence on Hong Kong lmao.

[Cope]

I say that with smug satisfaction because I actually study history. And finally the "democratization" of the United States fails somewhere, finally its met its match. Too bad so many south Americans, Latin Americans, Africans and Asians had to die before hand. American exceptionalism is a bad joke. At least the Chinese build things before they steal from you. Americans just bomb you.

this is why I support Trump. Under his leadership the influence of the USA will only get weaker. Case in point his complete silence on Hong Kong lmao.

If your position on HK's right to self-determination is derived purely from a desire to spite the US, then it can be dismissed as irrational.