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Thread: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

  1. #141
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Unfortunately nothing much can be done to help the people of HK. Best way in my opinion to respond to these actions are to continue to support Taiwan and sell it military equipment. Anything they need. China is going to have to be confronted eventually.

  2. #142
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    If your position on HK's right to self-determination is derived purely from a desire to spite CHINA, then it can be dismissed as irrational

  3. #143

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    No one in this thread supports HK's right to self-determination out of a desire to spite China. They believe in self-determination, democracy, human rights and liberty as matters of principle and of conscience. Your view - which would deny the people of HK all these things - seems to be derived purely from a petty resentfulness directed at the US (a charge which you have not denied). This sort of irrationality - which is propped up by appeals to hypocrisy - will get you nowhere here.



  4. #144
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    At least the Chinese build things before they steal from you. Americans just bomb you.
    Err no

    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a518306.pdf

    The bombing only starts when you shelter AQ.

    Although per this older view of the situation after the Taliban but before 9/11 one wonders if the US missed a soft Power opportunity. Its now clear that 2 decades of war did not remove the Taliban and we cannot make A-stan be a thriving modern liberal democracy. But had the US simply offered to restore the Helmand project and improve it , recognize the Taliban with the caveat that AQ got the boot one wonders what would have occurred. Sometimes maybe you just got let people live in the 13th century if that is what they want.
    Last edited by conon394; May 25, 2020 at 10:59 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    ‘I won’t allow this to be the end of Hong Kong’: campaigner on his long fight for democracy

    Lee has long been a thorn in the side of the Chinese government. In the early 1980s, as chairman of the Hong Kong Bar association, he was invited by China to become one of 23 Hong Kongers on the Basic Law Drafting Committee. But, after criticising Beijing for crushing the Tiananmen pro-democracy movement in 1989, he was banished from the body.

    His father’s advice for him was: “Don’t trust the Communist party. When they need you, they’d give you everything but when they’re done they’d drop you, kick you and stamp on you.”

    Lee went on to found the Democratic party in 1994 and has since been seen as a “traitor” to China for his lobbying for western support for the democratisation of Hong Kong. Last month, he was one of 15 prominent figures arrested for illegal assembly for demonstrating in last year’s anti-government protests.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-for-democracy
    Taiwan promises ‘support’ for Hong Kong’s people as China tightens grip

    The Hong Kong Bar Association said the legislation by China’s National People’s Congress would violate the territory’s de-facto constitution, which explicitly states that Hong Kong enact its own national security law.

    “This is unprecedented. The public must be allowed the opportunity to properly consider and debate about proposed laws which affect their personal rights and obligations,” it said in a statement.

    “In face of the changing situation, the international community has proactively stretched out a helping hand to Hong Kong’s people,” Tsai wrote.

    Taiwan will “even more proactively perfect and forge ahead with relevant support work, and provide Hong Kong’s people with necessary assistance,’” she wrote.

    Taiwan has no law on refugees that could be applied to Hong Kong protesters who seek asylum on the island. Its laws do promise, though, to help Hong Kong citizens whose safety and liberty are threatened for political reasons.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...l-security-law
    “When you consider their decency, firmness and wisdom, you cannot but respect their cause, and wish to make it your own.” William Pitt the Younger

    The US must also extend a hand. The spirit of Liberty, manifested in the hearts of countless thousands who continue to fight for their lives in the face of the inevitable, is not unlike our own, by which our Revolution accomplished the impossible and changed the world forever. It must not be extinguished by the iron grip of authoritarian tyranny.

    Asylum should be specially extended to resident HK protestors fleeing the city, and expedited wherever possible, before it’s too late. Germany and Canada have accepted a handful of Hong Kong refugees under similar conditions in the last year.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  6. #146

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Senators Toomey and Van Hollen's Hong Kong Autonomy Act would impose sanctions on:

    Persons or entities that materially contribute to the contravention of China's obligations
    Examples may include a police unit cracking down on Hong Kong protestors or Chinese Communist Party officials responsible for imposing a "national security" law on Hong Kong
    Banks that conduct "significant transactions" with persons or entities described above
    The legislation also expresses support for allowing Hongkongers, in a time of crisis, to become eligible to obtain lawful entry into the United States if they are facing persecution or violence from Beijing.

    The bill text can be found here.
    https://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=op_ed&id=2642
    US Senate Contact List

    Legislation of this kind is long overdue. The USG has also begun to take a look at Chinese nationals from military institutions studying in the US, and at Chinese firms enjoying access to US exchanges without providing public financials. Better late than never I suppose. The rest of the world may or may not join in such efforts. The US must in any case lead if others are to follow. The Politburo must be held to account, for better or worse.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #147

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    UK widens visa rights offer to almost 3m Hong Kong residents | Financial Times

    The UK has set itself on a collision course with China after broadening its offer on extended visa rights from 350,000 to almost 3m Hong Kong residents.

    After Beijing announced plans this week to proceed with the imposition of a national security law on Hong Kong, UK foreign secretary Dominic Raab retaliated with an “unprecedented” pledge to expand visa rights for British National (Overseas) passport holders in Hong Kong from six to 12 months and “provide a pathway to future citizenship”.

    About 350,000 people hold valid BNO passports, a document issued to Hong Kong residents born before the handover of the territory from UK to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.

    However, the Home Office clarified on Friday that the pledge to extend visa rights would apply to anyone eligible to apply for a BNO passport currently living in Hong Kong, of which there are estimated to be about 2.9m. Most of the additional 2.55m people have held a BNO passport in the past but not renewed it.

    The move was made because “the new security law will undermine the existing legal commitments to protect the rights of Hong Kong people”, the Home Office said. It is symbolic of the UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s new willingness to adopt a tougher stance towards Beijing.
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    Exarch, Coughdrop addict

  8. #148

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Good.



  9. #149
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    It's remarkable that Beijing has 'tolerated' this for so long (they actually didn't). HK is asking for a massacre and the revelation of the true brutality of the Chinese police state. This will not go well much longer, i fear. And British influence... come on chaps, seriously?

  10. #150

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill


    China Says Main Challenge in Hong Kong Is Opposition to Communist Party

    “I think that Hong Kong’s main problem isn’t an economic problem,” said Zhang Xiaoming, deputy director of the Chinese government’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office, specifically dismissing issues such as housing, employment and lack of social mobility for youth that some have fingered as fueling protests in the city. “Rather, it is a political problem,” he said.

    In a nearly hourlong speech televised in Hong Kong, Mr. Zhang said the recent chaos and social conflict stemmed primarily from the “grave differences” over what the territory’s future should look like.

    China wants to ensure a prosperous and stable Hong Kong, whereas opposition groups and foreign forces want to turn the city into “a bridgehead for opposing China and opposing the Communist Party,” said Mr. Zhang, who was addressing an online seminar marking 30 years since Beijing approved Hong Kong’s miniconstitution, known as the Basic Law.

    Threats to national security must be dealt with decisively, he said, as China’s legislature did last month in passing a resolution to impose legislation on Hong Kong that would prevent and punish subversion, separatism, terrorism and foreign interference, and allow mainland Chinese state-security agencies to operate officially in the former British colony.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-s...ty-11591627540
    The CCP has dropped all pretense. The Basic Law is effectively dead.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    A glorious day indeed; we can expect to see CIA spies being hunted down and tortured to give up their handlers, and we can expect to have those handlers being mailed back piece by piece back to Langley in the coming weeks.

  12. #152

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    A glorious day indeed; we can expect to see CIA spies being hunted down and tortured to give up their handlers, and we can expect to have those handlers being mailed back piece by piece back to Langley in the coming weeks.
    So if the US starts to do the same to Chinese nationals in revenge, you'll be cool with that? Or is basic human decency is for everyone but the Chinese master race?

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    So if the US starts to do the same to Chinese nationals in revenge, you'll be cool with that? Or is basic human decency is for everyone but the Chinese master race?
    White anglo supremacist americans are perfectly fine doing exactly that to other nations and other people; it is after all realpolitik.



    Reminds me of Hilary Clinton who also said 'we came, we saw, he died'.

    Against such wannabe Nazis, you're gonna have to crack a few heads, and i am perfectly fine with that.

    EDIT: See, the thing is, your American leadership wanted a cold war with China, and they got their cold war with China. Unfortunately, this remake of the Cold War has the Americans taking on the role of the Soviets down to glasnost and perestroika.
    Last edited by Exarch; June 09, 2020 at 05:03 AM.

  14. #154
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    White anglo supremacist americans are perfectly fine doing exactly that to other nations and other people; it is after all realpolitik.
    Except all the personal freedom, democracy, industry and even Communism were brought by white supremacists.

    What would China be if they hadn't intervened, believing their way of life is superior and need to be enforced onto others?

    Would you prefer to live like a poor dirty Chinese peasant, an overweight imperial officer who didn't even have toilet at home and the only hobby was smoking opium all day, or someone who's normal?

    I for one would rather be an American than Chinese and most of the commie council members would agree with that too, by having their families living in US. Let's not forget the glorious leader's own son was in UK, the very home of white anglo supremacists. The only kind of people who are happy to be governed by Chinese are those who don't have a choice.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Would you prefer to live like a poor dirty Chinese peasant, an overweight imperial officer who didn't even have toilet at home and the only hobby was smoking opium all day, or someone who's normal?
    .
    I actually wouldn't mind historical re-enactment and whilst i dont cosplay, i have no issues with anyone else who does.

    Anyway, your comment is fallacious in that of course, modern China 2020 isn't Qing China anymore than modern US is antebellum US or the Camelot days of JFK.

    @topic

    British money backs China and HK
    HSBC and StanChart back China security laws for HK







    HSBC and Standard Chartered have given their backing to China's new security laws for Hong Kong.
    Both banks made statements saying the proposed law can help maintain long-term stability in the troubled city.
    On Wednesday, HSBC's Asia Pacific chief executive Peter Wong signed a petition backing the law which has been widely criticised.
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52916119

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Anyway, your comment is fallacious in that of course, modern China 2020 isn't Qing China anymore than modern US is antebellum US or the Camelot days of JFK.
    Yet rich Chinese are still moving to US and elsewhere. What advantage can a PRC-owned HK be expected to provide to its residents, aside from the good feeling of some delusional nationalists, mostly in in PRC territory with far lower standard of life than HK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    British money backs China and HK

    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52916119
    Backing? Or be threatened to sign? What would happen if they say no?

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Yet rich Chinese are still moving to US and elsewhere. What advantage can a PRC-owned HK be expected to provide to its residents, aside from the good feeling of some delusional nationalists, mostly in in PRC territory with far lower standard of life than HK??
    Actually, rich Chinese move to Canada and Australia; the US is too much of a 3rd world country given the events of this past year and the USG's response to COVID-19, and your post is ignorant in that the only thing the security law does is make life painfully difficult (painful in the sense that kneecappings and torture) for american spies would make life difficult for america. It does nothing for finance, and even then the foreign money still keeps pouring into HK as we saw with HSBC.


    Backing? Or be threatened to sign? What would happen if they say no
    Proof? Otherwise you're simply indulging in propagandistic fantasies.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    It is true that rich chinese people are flocking to the United States, as are their children. Our universities, even inferior state schools, are overflowing with chinese nationals desperate to attain a western education. Discontent over the situation with Hong Kong is a major impetus for their immigration, they understand that their totalitarian, communist government can exercise total control over them. The chinese communist party has become just decadent enough to allow for private citizens to gain enough wealth to flee the oppressive chinese communist regime.

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    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    It is true that rich chinese people are flocking to the United States, as are their children. Our universities, even inferior state schools, are overflowing with chinese nationals desperate to attain a western education. Discontent over the situation with Hong Kong is a major impetus for their immigration, they understand that their totalitarian, communist government can exercise total control over them. The chinese communist party has become just decadent enough to allow for private citizens to gain enough wealth to flee the oppressive chinese communist regime.
    Well, i hate to burst your little fantasy, but even the United States in a screeching Tom Cotton-esque fear over the inevitable rise of China's technological prowess is now trying to stop Chinese students from coming to the US-which is perfectly fine with Beijing since a massive proportion of US tech R&D is conducted by ethnic Chinese, but i'm sure the superior white anglo supremacists can do science just fine amirite?

    @topic
    The HK riot movements are fast running out of money as the security services close off the funding and bringing in the ringleaders to have a nice chat with the Ministry of State Security. Earlier this week, a white australian man was sentenced to be executed on drug charges, we can expect similar sentences for traitors and spies.
    Britain stands by China and the City of London voices its support with China.
    Last edited by Exarch; June 15, 2020 at 10:26 PM.

  20. #160

    Default Re: Hundreds of thousands march in Hong Kong to protest China extradition bill

    China unveils details of national security law with sweeping new powers over Hong Kong

    Unfortunately for the people of Hong Kong, the Chinese government has decided to crush them underfoot just as they do to their subjects on the mainland. The people of Hong Kong's now have to choose, fight or be a slave.

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