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Thread: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

  1. #41
    La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham's Avatar Artifex♔Duffer♔Civitate
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post

    However, the primary reason, in my opinion, is the fact that many customers are not familiar with the politics of 2nd and 3rd century imperial China. Apart from armies looking identical, for the average Westerner, fighting with and against unknown warlords, whose names are a tad difficult to pronounce, is not as enjoyable as, for instance, role-playing as Wellington or Czarist Russia (despite the fact that the lack of diversity in armies is not less serious in vanilla Napoleon). All the above applies to modding, as well, at least regarding the majority of the forum's membership. The announcement of DLCs will probably reverse the trend, but only temporarily, in my pessimist opinion.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this statement! well said sir!

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  2. #42

    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    I'll admit I didnt play for a while after getting a solid 35 hours in on my first campaign but I still gave it an excellent review at the time for good reasons and I'm getting back into it now and am hooked again.

    I think the first build was a little unbalanced too, I tried playing as Ma Teng in my first attempts at the campaign and would get raped. I just started a new campaign as them and it has so far been easier.

  3. #43
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    The major issue for me is little similar to ToB. 3K is great game but after Warhammer it seems very repetitive..units,factions,characters. What it needs is a few DLCs to flesh out parts of map, add variety, units. Basically due to WH slowing down content pace, 3K seems to be sluggish as well but situation is different. 3K is barebone with just one DLC, Warhammer is fully fleshed out due to long list of DLC thus the situation is different.

    I just hope it will get way better with a few more DLCs

  4. #44
    Rosbjerg's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Ironically, I think it's the best vanilla historical title since Shogun 2, although it would be more fair to call it a mythical game, rather than historical. Previous titles suffered from less than stellar launches and weird design choices. TW:TK is very well designed, similar to Warhammer.

    It would have been mindblowingly awesome, if the engine was moddable. The levy system with feudal generals, paired with the political system from Rome 2, could've made the coolest Total War Medieval game.

  5. #45

    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post

    I just hope it will get way better with a few more DLCs
    I don't understand this mindset, I do not want a few more DLCs for a fully priced game to feel "complete", I want it be done when its released. I did not need Kingdoms to enjoy the original MTW2.

  6. #46
    Basileos Leandros I's Avatar Writing is an art
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    You're not kidding - that is a significantly steep drop in players from launch to the next month. But why? Why would you buy a game and then not play it the month after, when it has such good reviews?
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  7. #47

    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    You know what is funny. I bought the game, played one battle and nope, not my kind of game. Never played since.

  8. #48
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind View Post
    I don't understand this mindset, I do not want a few more DLCs for a fully priced game to feel "complete", I want it be done when its released. I did not need Kingdoms to enjoy the original MTW2.
    Sight. I understand what you are saying plus I said my part in short way...basically it sounded that I want more DLC because game is not complete. The problem is we are no longer in MTW2 days. CA is making way in certain way. Creating base game which will be ground for the whole life span of that particular TW. Instead of creating smaller campaign map and adding new areas with expansion like in older days, now CA is creating bigger maps and filling them slowly with DLCs. Think whatever you want, that is the current way. So if we have side by side comparison of one game at very beginning of its life cycle (3K) the map will feel little empty in comparison with similar game but in second half of its life span (Wh2, 2 years after release, with 7 DLCs and a few more on the way) quess which one is feeling richer. Of course setting is not everyone but for me it is competition for my time.

    You will probably say that buying 7 DLCs just to have complete game is nonsence, that you want full game like in old times and that is the catch. The free content with Warhammer is probably the best in history, you are getting tons of free parts plus all the paind content is there to fight against. So even people with just base game have very much richer experience after year, two then at very start of the game. Of course playing 3K is fully perfect, just Wh2 is right now bigger fun... and 3K in two years will be quite better experience. Tons new units, factions, characters...problem is, I can see it how CA is working and because Wh2, I don´t need to play 3K right now.

    Plus we got big iong dinos last week https://imgur.com/WRFnl8b

  9. #49
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by izzi View Post
    You know what is funny. I bought the game, played one battle and nope, not my kind of game. Never played since.
    What was it that led you to that conclusion, specifically?

  10. #50

    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    What was it that led you to that conclusion, specifically?
    Just boring. Don't know why. But when i played it, i felt so bored. Maybe because i am more of a gunpowder guy.

  11. #51
    Rosbjerg's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    That's a shame, it really has potential for some awesome emergent gameplay.

    In my latest campaign, a major power (Cao Cao) instigated a proxy war between my vassal and the vassal of another major power (Zong), triggering a huge war between myself and Zong.
    In retaliation I had my spy, which was deeply embedded in the royal family of Cao Cao, trigger a massive civil war, which tore their kingdom apart. Giving me time to end the war with Zong and then turn my attention the severly weakened Cao Cao.

    I've never been able to do instigate (or been subjected to) that level of diplomacy in a Total War game before. This is something I hope they bring forward into other titles - it almost feels like playing a hybrid between Crusader Kings and Total war, when it works like above.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    A hybrid between CK2 and TW has been a long desired feature of TW gamers, at least the old guard who played the simplistic MTW/STW style diplomacy. And it works amazing.
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  13. #53

    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    In what concerns the main factors behind this development, I suspect that its quality had been slightly exaggerated, while the Eight Princes DLC proved to be rather disappointing.
    Another possible explanation could be that this title was the first TW for many Chinese people and after trying it out, it wasn't their cup of tea.

    However, the primary reason, in my opinion, is the fact that many customers are not familiar with the politics of 2nd and 3rd century imperial China. Apart from armies looking identical, for the average Westerner, fighting with and against unknown warlords, whose names are a tad difficult to pronounce, is not as enjoyable as, for instance, role-playing as Wellington or Czarist Russia
    This wasn't an issue when Shogun 2 came out, which is at least as unfamiliar with westerners.

    I've stopped playing Three Kingdoms because I find the whole game quite superficial and opaque. When do you get to recruit certain units? When do you unlock certain formations and who gets them? What color beats what color in duels? The list goes on and on and on...

    Also, a lot of factions I found to be too challenging for me personally. Only the factions of the first tab (can't remember the names of the groups) were doable for me, with the others ones being quite masochistical (including the Yellow Turban DLC). I like a challenge, but not one where i'm being gangraped from all sides (I had the same problem with Shogun 2 though)

  14. #54
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    I agree with Jupiter. I am not a fan of Eurocentrism, and many Westerners had NO PROBLEMS WITH SHOGUN 2 DESPITE THE NAMES, DESPITE THE COMPLEXETIES OF JAPANESE POLITICS.

    So what was wrong with 3k? Everyone praised it and said yeah we don't care about Asian history, our history is glorious and nothing else can triumph it.

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  15. #55
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Maybe because popculture? Samurais, Ninjas, Vikings, Roman Legionaires...there were a lot western films about them andd hero is usually one of them, part of warrior elite group. But there is not many western films about eastern guys and eastern films are simply little different. Plus looking even on stupid films like Braveheart, the Wallace is not killing dozens people with ease a tthe same time, he is ending blooded and hurt while a lot eastern films I have feeling that there is legendary gap between "hero" of the film and common poor guys..

    Plus who is good guy and who bad guy? In western popculture it is usually two sides versus each other, Three Kingdoms that is more likely free-for-all...

  16. #56
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Pop culture (Samurais, Tom Cruise) certainly played a major role, but I personally wouldn't overestimate Shogun's success. It has been indeed praised (rather excessively, in my opinion) as the pinnacle of the Total War franchise, but its sale figures never reached those of Empire, while it sank in relative obscurity, once Rome II was released. Keep in mind that both Empire and Rome has a sinister reputation of being in an exceptionally bad stage, at least during their early stages of their life. Meanwhile, Three Kingdoms faces some difficult competition from Warhammer, while its lackluster recruitment system, uninspired battles and streamlined administration discourage the average player from replaying the same campaign, under a slightly different warlord, whose name he can't easily pronounce.

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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    I was deeply disappointed by Shogun: Total War, I bought it and some DLCs, but I never played it for long. When I first saw the battlefields it was quite a shock, after the experience in ETW (most realistic looking battlefields still), now enjoying the pink flowered dreams of a 14 year old. I was fury about the fact they even increased the use of ropes and pocket ladders for castle attacks. I was bored by the units and factions, despite some existing interest in Japanese history.

    But the main factor for my lasting desinterest was the fact that the game had a narrow scale. Similar to Attila (at least an interesting time period) or Three Kingdoms. There is no real development in the game, there is no real diversity. The advantage of Three Kingdoms over Shogun for me is that I did not even buy the former, fortunately. M2TW, ETW and R2TW on the other hand had the broad story and/or the diversity of factions and areas.

    I don't play any longer M2TW, for graphical reasons, but ETW and R2TW are the only TW games I need and I value. I could not play them unmodded, but with mods they are the best what the serial has made.

    I would highly appreciate a TW from the Neolithic Age up to the late Bronze Age: from a primitive start to a highly developed army design with most of the branches later in use. I would also highly appreciate a game ranging from 1500 AD to 1700 AD with a worldwide scenario because the military changed a lot in this timeframe and a lot of various cultures could be included. I would buy in any case an E2TW game. I'm not sure about M3TW, I'm a bit sick of the medieval times, but maybe.
    Last edited by geala; September 23, 2019 at 05:13 AM.

  18. #58
    Basileos Leandros I's Avatar Writing is an art
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Pop culture (Samurais, Tom Cruise) certainly played a major role, but I personally wouldn't overestimate Shogun's success. It has been indeed praised (rather excessively, in my opinion) as the pinnacle of the Total War franchise, but its sale figures never reached those of Empire, while it sank in relative obscurity, once Rome II was released. Keep in mind that both Empire and Rome has a sinister reputation of being in an exceptionally bad stage, at least during their early stages of their life. Meanwhile, Three Kingdoms faces some difficult competition from Warhammer, while its lackluster recruitment system, uninspired battles and streamlined administration discourage the average player from replaying the same campaign, under a slightly different warlord, whose name he can't easily pronounce.
    A bit of apples and oranges here, Abdulmecid, because Shogun 2 was a very limited geographical scope and Empire was a transcontinental empire game which clearly has way more people interested. It would be obvious the sales numbers would differ greatly, just as well for Rome 2.

    I absolutely loved Shogun 2 TW and found it a very solid game overall - the only TW game where I finished a campaign with nearly every single faction in the game. Including FoTS.
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  19. #59
    Anna_Gein's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    The game looks good but it is difficult to get into it. The UI looks brilliant but it is rather ineffective and frequently obscurs more than it explains. So it's a pretty big failure here as an UI must be clear and intuitive. The exotic names are okay imho. The biggest issue is that factions keep changing their names according to their faction leaders and their colour are very likely on the campaign map so it is a bit hard to check what is going on.

    Since the comparison with shogun 2 was made it is worth mentioning S2 UI was very effective to explain everything the player needed and make its world easy to understand despite the exotic setting.

    I have to admit Three Kingdoms is the most difficult TW title I ever played. I keep getting gang raped by the AI factions on normal difficulty

  20. #60
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    Default Re: The Popularity of Three Kingdoms

    I think there is a big difference between how people perceive Japan to China. Japan despite being the "bad guy" in WWII is a culture that is highly adaptable. Chinese are quite the opposite and very conceited culture. I say this having lived in China off and on for 6 years now. I am also married to a Chinese wife. One minute a Chinese person will go out of their way to help you and the next moment they are shoulder- blocking you get on the bus. But i am over generalizing here. Japan is a more accessible and politically palatable region than China.

    What I find disturbing about 3 Kingdom is the treatment of Chinese history. Chinese history is very vibrant and colorful history. If you are able to break away from urge to look at it dynastic-ally, you will see a very unique and very interesting events that could make for some unexpected game-play. CA has instead opted to view its history legendary status of individuals both real and imagine. Watching some for the Let's play from CA, it is pretty clear to me that Chinese history is only interesting if you read stories and fables. It is like saying that you love Greek history but only through the eyes of the Iliad or English history through the Arthurian tales. Oddly, they double down on this approach with the next Saga "tale."

    ----

    I would agree that the name change can be disorienting. Many times in the game I say to myself, "who." I have to look at the map and see whee they are located and then I know. Generally, I do recognize the family name, but when the family do not rise to the title, then I have to go look.

    ----

    To be honest, all of the talk about economy synergy i found I did just fine building my provinces up as I feel. If I need more food, then I build more food producing building. If I need more money, I build more income producing buildings. I rarely have any cash flow problems. My armies were always at capacity once I passed a certain threshold.
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