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Thread: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

  1. #21
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    For me all ranged units are at the front no matter the unit. I think it may be because I changed all projectiles in my own modding to have a low trajectory rather than a dual_fixed trajectory, so now they all act like crossbows. I've been messing with every single table that affects battle stats though.. so it's hard to tell exactly what is causing it.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    My current project in progress. Ignore what unit types are in the formation, just using whatever composed entities I can get to function right now while testing. Each entry needs to be unique and standard bearers and officers/generals have preset locations in the formation based on their composed entity table. Was trying to get a General in the middle with some bodyguards and standard bearers, a vanguard colonel/bodyguards/standard bearers and a rearguard colonel/bodyguards/standard bearers. Can't get the rearguard one to work (just puts them all up front), but I can get a vanguard colonel and general. From there I have a vanguard of crossbows, several lines of veterans (they show up at the very back right now, trying to put them behind the crossbows), the core of spear, the rearguard of pike. Since I cannot get the rearguard colonel to work I may just put in several bodyguard units of cavalry on the edges of the rear of the formation to act as "rear sergeants" similar to the video Wake posted. I really wanted to get a line of standard bearers at the very back but I can't seem to get it to work.

    My hope is that once we can adjust how many units are allowed per army again via ESF/Saveparser I'll be able to increase the unit sizes to a realistic brigade size, have each unit operate as a brigade entity, and have less units on the battle map but far more armies on the campaign map. As it is now I gotta keep the unit sizes down due to performance reasons. Even though I've prevented the AI from blobbing the game still gets finicky when there are more than 20,000 soldiers on screen (though far less so if the entities cannot run..something else I may do).
    Last edited by McCarronXLD; June 10, 2019 at 02:10 PM.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GDE...ew?usp=sharing

    You can play with it. Tell me if you figure something out.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arni the Terminator View Post
    Sure, sent you the file.
    Nevermind, deleted my file from the discord as someone else apparently saw it and thought it'd be a great idea publishing the unfinished WIP version as his own work.
    Welcome to the internet I guess.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Ahh, I actually had some time to look at it today too. I should have specified you Private message me.

    As for everyone else, ill try and look more into the specifics of how the systems work, Im fairly limited with time as usual though so im counting and you guys to do some of the work as well. I will reformat the first post instructions as we learn more about the system.

    @McCarron I can assure you that I also change every variable with my units. The ones from the video have no stat left untouched XD

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Guys, I don't think it has anything to do with projectiles, spacing, or anything else...EXCEPT the total health (or even maybe total weight of unit type in the template).
    Why am I saying this?

    I couldn't figure out how to put the "spear guards" in front of any missiles troops.
    Then somehow after I add more spear guards to every missiles troops (spread equally: equal spear guards health which mean equal number of spear guards; in theory). Then the crossbowmen unit has spear guards at the FRONT, but the other unit remains the same (spear guards at the rear, horse bannermen at the front).
    THEN I added a another horse man to every missiles units. NOW!!! All of my archers stand at the rear behind the bloody spear guards.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

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    Last edited by Srisiam; June 12, 2019 at 12:26 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by WakelessREX View Post
    Ahh, I actually had some time to look at it today too. I should have specified you Private message me.
    Yeah, I'm not familiar with discord so I clicked your name to send it to, but all that did was mark you in the public channel. This has taken a dynamic of its own, after getting the upload link removed on reddit now a user has pointed me to nexusmods, where some moron youtuber has uploaded the WiP-file as his own mod, asking for subscriptions. I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to....

  8. #28

    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Srisiam View Post
    Guys, I don't think it has anything to do with projectiles, spacing, or anything else...EXCEPT the total health (or even maybe total weight of unit type in the template).
    Why am I saying this?

    I couldn't figure out how to put the "spear guards" in front of any missiles troops.
    Then somehow after I add more spear guards to every missiles troops (spread equally: equal spear guards health which mean equal number of spear guards; in theory). Then the crossbowmen unit has spear guards at the FRONT, but the other unit remains the same (spear guards at the rear, horse bannermen at the front).
    THEN I added a another horse man to every missiles units. NOW!!! All of my archers stand at the rear behind the bloody spear guards.
    Good find man, will try it later. This could be the big breakthrough


    Ok, I tried the method with the number of entities, but that did nothing for me. What worked however and finally got my custom unit working to influence the position of single entities was changing their prefix; so for example my unit is called TUP_wood_guardians, and the archers I created were called TUP_wood_guardians_bow which always made them stand in front of the melee infantry. What I did was simply changing the name of the archers to TUP_water_guardians_bow so the game would recognize them as archers and put them in the back. Now that suggests that if you want to influence the position, you just change the prefix e.g. to "wood" for spear guards in the front, although I'm done modding for today so this theory would have to be tested.
    Last edited by Leonardo; July 14, 2019 at 04:55 AM. Reason: Posts merged.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    I'm glad we are making progress...but it still doesn't explain why my vanilla spear guards are at the front of the crossbowmen and archers (but not archers militia). Right?

  10. #30
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Haven't had any luck with the above suggestions.. but I feel like I'm getting closer. Almost positive it has to do with a combination of which entities use random/middle/front/no_override, as well as if an entity is ticked as a general or not (the far right box). I think it may determine where the entities reform to when the formation is changed around in battle, with general ticked units resuming their previous position no matter how the men/ranks are divided/lost. Further still, I think the greatest effect of all comes down to your unit size, your rank depth, and how you've split your entities numerically in the land_units_templates table. I had to make sure the ranks were divided in such a way as to garuntee an odd number when split, to account for the single entity generals. You can see this uneven splitting effect in other entities throughout the formation.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Here is the table for anyone interested. My thanks to the modder who released this unit template (Beifang Warriors), which I am shamelessly using as a template for this.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Ignore the HP amounts though. I was putting in whatever just to see if I could get any changes. The unit rank depth is 20 and the unit itself has 500 men, for 25 men per rank.
    Last edited by McCarronXLD; June 12, 2019 at 06:11 PM.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  11. #31
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Ah changing the unit types around within the formation does have some effect from naming, but I can't tell exactly how yet..
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  12. #32
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Has anyone had more insight with this? After my own testing I surmised that the position of the entity is dependent on if it is assigned as an officer, standard bearer, or none in composed_entities, in addition to some sort of alphabetical ordering in land_units_templates table for the composed_entities column. Can also cheat the system a bit and make any unit you want to be at the very front to be assigned as an officer in composed_entities and put in the front in land_unit_templates, no matter the name.

    Thing is I don't know in what way the alphabetical ordering needs to be to get the desired result. What comes before what.. argh!
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  13. #33

    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Well I spent hours trying to get the game to honor the unit positioning with no luck at all. Looking forward to someone figuring this out for us.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by McCarronXLD View Post
    ...Can also cheat the system a bit and make any unit you want to be at the very front to be assigned as an officer in composed_entities and put in the front in land_unit_templates, no matter the name.
    This!

  15. #35
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Mixed Units Tutorial (Finally CA yes!!)

    Revisiting this to see if anyone else has made any progress in finding out the minutiae of how the entities are ordered. I still haven't figured it out!
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

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