John Cleese: London doesn't feel like an English city anymore. Legitimate to prefer some cultures over others

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

After reading this article:

https://www.spiegel.de/international...a-1269597.html

im even more sure, its social caused.

[Mithradates]

@Cookiegod: I can agree, but in UK its obviously then social and political caused (broken neighbourhoods, too lax chemical laws), not cultural, as it has nothing to do with culture as obviously white and african-caribean doing this crimes in nearly equal parts.

According to data from the London Metropolitan Police,^[88] a demographic breakdown of known suspects in London attacks for the period (2002–2016) showed White Europeans comprising 32% of suspects, African Caribbeans 38% and Asian 6%. Victims for the same period were 45% White Europeans, 25% African Caribbeans and 19% Asian. Known suspects were overwhelmingly male, 77% of known suspects were male and just 2% of suspects female. Four out of five victims in 2016 were male in contrast to other countries where women are most frequently victimized by men.^[87]

Whites and African Caribbeans doing this crimes in nearly equal parts? Really?

Whites (60%) doing 32% of the attacks
African Caribbeans, (4%) doing 38% of the attacks

Thats equal? I see the African Caribbeans "slightly" over represented, like 8 times....

[Aexodus]

@Cookiegod: I can agree, but in UK its obviously then social and political caused (broken neighbourhoods, too lax chemical laws), not cultural, as it has nothing to do with culture as obviously white and african-caribean doing this crimes in nearly equal parts.

According to data from the London Metropolitan Police,^[88] a demographic breakdown of known suspects in London attacks for the period (2002–2016) showed White Europeans comprising 32% of suspects, African Caribbeans 38% and Asian 6%. Victims for the same period were 45% White Europeans, 25% African Caribbeans and 19% Asian. Known suspects were overwhelmingly male, 77% of known suspects were male and just 2% of suspects female. Four out of five victims in 2016 were male in contrast to other countries where women are most frequently victimized by men.^[87]

By the by, your data shows a huge under-representation of whites as both suspects and victims.

[Basil II the B.S]

The best part of it is that he posted it to prove that white people are worse than others. Jesus Christ.

[Infidel144]

On acid attacks my impression is that its more an outgrowth of good control of more typical weapons and the fact you can acquire the acid legally and cheap. Why bother in New York where all you need to do is pay a college kid a few buck to drive to a state with lax guns and buy a crate load or just hit the gun show - hey buddy you just like prison tattoos right? no criminal record?Sure I am saint, OK here is your glock how much ammo can you carry?

Which state are you paying the college kid a few bucks to drive to?

[Kyriakos]

Indeed knife attacks (as Conon also stated) require either the element of surprise or skill with knives (else you will end up dead )
In some countries (eg Argentina) there was a culture of knife fights (eg Borges mentions it in many of his short stories). In the Uk it is just used for ordinary, petty crime and not as much for showmanship i suppose.
But use of acid in the Uk is not only about making a hit (sometimes people throw acid on moped riders, to steal the moped; quite gloomy for London or anywhere else), it also happens when the person wants to humiliate their enemy. Gangs mostly do it, but it isn't always gang-on-gang crime.

[conon394]

Which state are you paying the college kid a few bucks to drive to?

OK not a few dollars that a was bit of understatement but there is a ton evidence that you kinda find college kids or hard up retires who drive down to say Virginia and back and buy guns. You need people with clean records. I'll see if I can find a good link. But the cycle is organized crime and gangs can find marks to for not all that much money get the guns and then pass them on be nobody wants to holding a hot gun if they used it.

The best part of it is that he posted it to prove that white people are worse than others. Jesus Christ.

No given history they likely just have opportunity to participate in medical malpractice and financial fraud and much higher rate.

[Aexodus]

Indeed knife attacks (as Conon also stated) require either the element of surprise or skill with knives (else you will end up dead )
In some countries (eg Argentina) there was a culture of knife fights (eg Borges mentions it in many of his short stories). In the Uk it is just used for ordinary, petty crime and not as much for showmanship i suppose.
But use of acid in the Uk is not only about making a hit (sometimes people throw acid on moped riders, to steal the moped; quite gloomy for London or anywhere else), it also happens when the person wants to humiliate their enemy. Gangs mostly do it, but it isn't always gang-on-gang crime.

Actually the knife crime has a lot to do with a growing gang culture. Kids stab other kids to ‘save face’ and prove themselves to a gang. People also have ‘high scores’ in these gangs.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Whites and African Caribbeans doing this crimes in nearly equal parts? Really?

Whites (60%) doing 32% of the attacks
African Caribbeans, (4%) doing 38% of the attacks

Thats equal? I see the African Caribbeans "slightly" over represented, like 8 times....

Absolute nonsense.

Population of London (Census 2011):

White British (44.9%)
Other White (14.9%)
Asian British (18.4%)
Black British (13.3%)
Arab British (1.3%)
Mixed (5%)

Other (2.2%)

15.6 per cent of London's population are of Black and mixed-Black descent. 13.3 per cent are of full Black descent, with those of mixed-Black heritage comprising 2.3 per cent. Black Africans account for 7.0 per cent of London's population, with 4.2 per cent as Black Caribbean and 2.1 per cent as "Other Black". 5.0 per cent are of mixed race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

Those 13,3 % Black British consist of 7,00 % Black Africans, 4,2 % Black Caribbean and 2,1 % other Blacks ( 2,3% mixed Black Descent).

The African Caribbeans are also only 3 times over represented. Not 8 times.

But as Gang Criminality is defined by the Met Police with:

A gang is defined as "a relatively durable, predominantly street-based group of young people who see themselves [and are seen by others] as a discernible group, and engage in a range of criminal activity and violence".

So we should take a look at the relevant age group in London, shouldn't we?

Across London, Black and Asian children outnumber White British children by about six to four in state schools.^[246] Altogether at the 2011 census, of London's 1,624,768 population aged 0 to 15, 46.4 per cent were White, 19.8 per cent were Asian, 19 per cent were Black, 10.8 per cent were Mixed and 4 per cent represented another ethnic group.[247]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

So Black British are only two times overrepresented now.

Now we take a look were the ethnics live, as we know, gangs are "street-based".

Whites

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Blacks:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As everybody can see, blacks and whites live in different districts of London.

In some of this districts Blacks are more than 40 % of the inhabitants, so its total normal, that gangs of this districts consisted in majority of Black British and commit 38 % of those acid crimes.

I'm certain those are the poorest districts without any social infrastructure (youth clubs) (broken neighbourhood).

So acid crimes have nothing to do with black skin or black culture. Nothing more than racistic bs propaganda.

This argument is even more ridiculous, as they are british citizens, born in UK and not in Africa or Jamaica.

And the good news at last:

Gang crime is gone down 50 %

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-45189359

[mongrel]

1)You clearly have never seen a 2000s English University dinner. Let me tell you that it looked dreadful
2) Acid attacks are a very real and serious issue, currently a bit of a trend in London. We are talking about hundreds of attacks of this type per year. That is only comparable to places like Pakistan.
3) Historically, acid attacks started in Britain (and quickly after that appeared in France). The "Vitrioleur" was a thing, and only stopped when ww1 (and ww2) caused chemicals to be difficult to get or be very pricey.

I had written something on the history of acid attacks, last year, in this forum: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...y-of-violence)

But when was the last acid attack, I recall some stringent laws on the sale of corrosive substances were passed since such stories were frequently reported in the media.

also what have acid attacks to do with the racist rantings of an old tax-dodging comedian?

[Infidel144]

Absolute nonsense.


Population of London (Census 2011):


White British (44.9%)
Other White (14.9%)

That comes out to @60% as Mithradates said.

Asian British (18.4%)
Black British (13.3%)
Arab British (1.3%)
Mixed (5%)


Other (2.2%)


15.6 per cent of London's population are of Black and mixed-Black descent. 13.3 per cent are of full Black descent, with those of mixed-Black heritage comprising 2.3 per cent. Black Africans account for 7.0 per cent of London's population, with 4.2 per cent as Black Caribbean and 2.1 per cent as "Other Black". 5.0 per cent are of mixed race.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London


Those 13,3 % Black British consist of 7,00 % Black Africans, 4,2 % Black Caribbean and 2,1 % other Blacks ( 2,3% mixed Black Descent).
The African Caribbeans are also only 3 times over represented. Not 8 times.

Does "African Caribbean"= "Black British" or "Black Carribean"?

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Black British = African Caribbean.

[Infidel144]

Black British = African Caribbean.

Are you sure? Following your wikipedia source:
"The term has sometimes been used to include UK residents solely of African origin or as a term to define all Black British residents, though the phrase African and Caribbean has more often been used to cover such a broader grouping. The most common and traditional use of the term African-Caribbean community is in reference to groups of residents continuing aspects of Caribbean culture, customs and traditions in the UK."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...ribbean_people

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Yes, i am, as the Met police statistics don't differentiate between African Black or Caribbean Black, its all count under "Black":

Lee Bridges, Professor Emeritus (School of Law, University of Warwick), examines the ethnic composition of the Metropolitan police’s gangs database.



In October 2014, the Met police disclosed information[1] on the ethnic composition of its ‘Gangs Matrix’ or database, showing that no fewer than 78.2 per cent of 3,422 persons then included were classified as black and a further 8.7 per cent from other minority ethnic communities. The full ethnic breakdown was as follows:

It is interesting to note how ethnicity is defined. While four of the six categories are geographically based, with ‘whites’ being divided between Northern and Southern European origins, no such differentiation is made for either ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ people on the database, both being taken as blanket categories based purely on race or ethnicity.

But what is even more remarkable is that the Met could claim that there are only 439 white people in the whole of London who are engaged on an organised basis in ‘violence, criminal offending and gang membership’, which is the purported basis for inclusion on the database. Once account is taken of such organised criminal activities as drug-dealing; sex and people trafficking; multi-handed robbery: fraud: theft (including auto theft) and extortion; football hooliganism; and racist violence, these figures are simply not credible.

http://www.irr.org.uk/news/the-met-g...ism-in-action/

[Basil II the B.S]

I love how this thread turned out to be. So many posts are complete own goals uncovering stats that the left stays away as much as they can because it dismantles their narrative, then followed by hyperventilating posts that try to minimize the damage.

[TheLeft]

It's amusing to see that the conservatives always miss the blindingly obvious. Let me spell it out for you...

Your Tory Gods decided in their infinite wisdom to cut the police budget.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...report-reveals
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/...MP=ILC-refresh
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/new...jKvP9cPLT5gyYw

Violent crime then rose as a result. But yeah, you lot continue blaming the Mayor, or black people, or whatever distracts you from the simple truth...

[Basil II the B.S]

But I hate the Conservative party. I even call them Cuckservative..

Regardless, crime is correlated with low social cohesion. Not so much police forces. Plenty of cities waste great amounts of resources on the police, but they have low social cohesion and thus achieve little. This is very common for instance in Sub-Saharian Africa. Large urban conglomerates like London also have the same issue, but also New York, for the same reason. Parallel societies developed along tribal lines, different value sets and often religious boundaries. In short, what you call ''multicultural society'' in the end results in a complete breakdown of society into microcosms relying on tribal belonging. Outside that, noone trusts anyone.

This is actually the most notorious study:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...7.2007.00176.x

Mostly because Putnam is a liberal in favour of diversity and didn't really like the results of his research, thus postponed it for a bit, hoping to find a solution. Regardless, ethno-cultural diversity is strongly correlated with low trust in neighbours, media, political leadership, but also participation in protests, lack of friends, spending time watching tv.

And that's the US. The most diverse societies are unsurprisingly in Sub-Saharian Africa, to the point that someone advanced the argument that what actually hinders development over there is indeed too much diversity and tribalism. This seems to find confirmation in the fact that the most cohese societies are.... in East Asia, aka the most homogenous ones like Japan, Korea and China. Does Japan waste infinite amounts of money on police? Not at all.

[conon394]

I love how this thread turned out to be. So many posts are complete own goals uncovering stats that the left stays away as much as they can because it dismantles their narrative, then followed by hyperventilating posts that try to minimize the damage.

How do figure that. I see no damage to minimize.

[Basil II the B.S]

Clodia started posting race/crime statistics thinking that 32% of crime being committed by white people proved white people commit a lot of acid attacks and the issue wasn't cultural/ethnic. Then when multiple guys pointed out that London is 60% white, meaning that despite being 60% of the population, white people commit only 32% of the crime in question, things started falling apart in the narrative. Especially when given the statistic: despite being only 13% of the London population, blacks commit 38% of all acid attacks.

And now he's trying to minimize that complete up with ''yes ok but they are only twice more represented if we exclude non-British blacks''. Rofl.

[Kyriakos]

But when was the last acid attack, I recall some stringent laws on the sale of corrosive substances were passed since such stories were frequently reported in the media.

also what have acid attacks to do with the racist rantings of an old tax-dodging comedian?

Acid was what killed the parrot?

I wasn't claiming that acid attacks are characteristically done by minorities. I merely noted that it is a phenomenon which does have far more prominence in London, afaik, than in the rest of Europe.
I do hope it has gone down, because an acid attack can literally happen to anyone and can ruin a life in a few seconds...

Afaik (i don't have stats, so i am not saying this as a 'this is how it is') use of acid when done by some minorities is done for different reason (""honor"" attack, eg to have revenge against an ex girlfriend/boyfriend or similar) than when done by youth gang members. And most of the acid attacks in London seem to be of the gang-crime type.