John Cleese: London doesn't feel like an English city anymore. Legitimate to prefer some cultures over others

[Kyriakos]

To some extent but the spike in London and surrounds looks to have been gang related as sales of the material were made more lax

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/y...going-anywhere

As Cookiegod noted, acid is also used because of the specific effects it has. An acid attack is almost impossible to kill you, but it can very easily leave you horribly deformed. Also, it takes zero skill to attack using acid. At least a person with a knife has to know a bit about how to use it + the wound will likely cause far less damage and not result to death either.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

That describes the EU in general, the acid and knife attack epidemic is a UK phenomenon, it is cultural.

Acid attack trio responsible for 19 robberies across north and east London

You dont see this in Vienna or Warsaw

Not true, its a worldwide phenomen:

According to researchers and activists, countries typically associated with acid assault include Bangladesh,^[36] India,^[37][38] Nepal, Cambodia,^[39] Vietnam, Laos, China, United Kingdom, Kenya, South Africa, Uganda, Pakistan,^[40] and Afghanistan. However, acid attacks have been reported in countries around the world, including:^[7][41]

• Afghanistan^[42]
• Australia
• Bangladesh^[36][43][44]
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Cambodia^[45][46]
• Canada
• China^[47]
  
  • Hong Kong S.A.R. ^[48][49]
  
  
• Colombia^{[50] [51] [52]}
• Egypt
• France
• Gabon
• Germany
• Indonesia
• India^[53][54]
• Iran^[55][56]
• Israel
• Italy
• Jamaica^[24]
• Kenya
• Laos
• Malaysia
• Mexico^[57]
• Nepal
• Myanmar
• Nigeria^[58][23]
• Philippines
• Pakistan^[59][60]
• Russia^[61]
• Sri Lanka
• Sweden
• South Africa^[14]
• Taiwan
• Thailand^[62]
• Turkey
• Tanzania^[63]
• United Kingdom^{[64][65][66][67][68]}
• United States^[69][70]
• Uganda^[23][23]

• Yemen
• Vietnam^[71]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#Pakistan_2

[Knight of Heaven]

I dont see what is the issue. Cleese comments seem to be on point. London has been like this multicultural for years, it isn't a exactly new thing.
London hasn't been typical English for a while.

[mongrel]

London isn't an English city. It was built around five centuries before any Angles set foot on Albion's soil. John Cleese, like Jlited John's Gordon, is a moron. Like a disappointing 1960's school dinner, this thread is just more poor quality spam.

Btw when was the last acid attack reported in London?

[Mithradates]

Really why not? I mean just social norms or better regulation of chemicals. The use of acid is kind nasty in the UK I mean you can put a gun to somebodies head and just walk away but you leave open the possibility of mass shooting becoming the new norm as well. Also of course once you have somebody at close gun point you and your mates can do all matter vile stuff under the threat of a rather easy means to death at close range that requires zero skill or effort. In the UK acid attacks have dropped after the high spike. I mean I worried not much in London vs walking about Chicago at night where I was back to my old Detroit roots guard level of watching everything on the street.

The UK has one of highest rates of acid attacks in the world and you must be 18+ to buy your first ...kitchen knife.
Knife crime: Asda to remove single kitchen knives from sale

A European city should not be like this and you should compare London to other European cities and not to Chicago. Something is just not right with London, I believe its something cultural.

Not true, its a worldwide phenomen:

According to researchers and activists, countries typically associated with acid assault include Bangladesh,^[36] India,^[37][38] Nepal, Cambodia,^[39] Vietnam, Laos, China, United Kingdom, Kenya, South Africa, Uganda, Pakistan,^[40] and Afghanistan.

Indeed it is worldwide, but I was talking about the EU. Also, look at what countries are on that "countries typically associated" list, the UK clearly has a problem.

London isn't an English city. It was built around five centuries before any Angles set foot on Albion's soil.

sure hahaha

[95thrifleman]

Right, so homogeneous architecture is a result of evil, liberal diversity?

Which is why every church and castle in the UK is the exact same basic design? In fact every church and castle in western europe is the same basic design, due to the evil medieval liberals no doubt.

Skyscrapers themselves are the design of WHITE, WESTERN American architects showing off the superiority of western industry and technology and date back to pre-war America. The basic design has remained unchanged since those original WHITE, WESTERN cultural icons, only the materials have changed.

Skyscrapers are not the result of the evils of cultural diversity.

[Kyriakos]

London isn't an English city. It was built around five centuries before any Angles set foot on Albion's soil. John Cleese, like Jlited John's Gordon, is a moron. Like a disappointing 1960's school dinner, this thread is just more poor quality spam.

Btw when was the last acid attack reported in London?

1)You clearly have never seen a 2000s English University dinner. Let me tell you that it looked dreadful
2) Acid attacks are a very real and serious issue, currently a bit of a trend in London. We are talking about hundreds of attacks of this type per year. That is only comparable to places like Pakistan.
3) Historically, acid attacks started in Britain (and quickly after that appeared in France). The "Vitrioleur" was a thing, and only stopped when ww1 (and ww2) caused chemicals to be difficult to get or be very pricey.

I had written something on the history of acid attacks, last year, in this forum: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...y-of-violence)

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Not true, its a worldwide phenomen:

According to researchers and activists, countries typically associated with acid assault include Bangladesh,^[36] India,^[37][38] Nepal, Cambodia,^[39] Vietnam, Laos, China, United Kingdom, Kenya, South Africa, Uganda, Pakistan,^[40] and Afghanistan. However, acid attacks have been reported in countries around the world, including:^[7][41]

• Afghanistan^[42]
• Australia
• Bangladesh^[36][43][44]
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Cambodia^[45][46]
• Canada
• China^[47]
  
  • Hong Kong S.A.R. ^[48][49]
  
  
• Colombia^{[50] [51] [52]}
• Egypt
• France
• Gabon
• Germany
• Indonesia
• India^[53][54]
• Iran^[55][56]
• Israel
• Italy
• Jamaica^[24]
• Kenya
• Laos
• Malaysia
• Mexico^[57]
• Nepal
• Myanmar
• Nigeria^[58][23]
• Philippines
• Pakistan^[59][60]
• Russia^[61]
• Sri Lanka
• Sweden
• South Africa^[14]
• Taiwan
• Thailand^[62]
• Turkey
• Tanzania^[63]
• United Kingdom^{[64][65][66][67][68]}
• United States^[69][70]
• Uganda^[23][23]

• Yemen
• Vietnam^[71]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#Pakistan_2

@Mithridates: I have highlighted the european countries for you.

[The spartan]

Wtf? I guess John Cleese is fine with Male genital mutilation, then?

[conon394]

The UK has one of highest rates of acid attacks in the world and you must be 18+ to buy your first ...kitchen knife.
Knife crime: Asda to remove single kitchen knives from sale

A European city should not be like this and you should compare London to other European cities and not to Chicago. Something is just not right with London, I believe its something cultural.

Well to fair you link is not about London but the stats for England and Wales overall. And while true they did spike (in London) but they have receded. I'm just saying from an American perspective they represent a very low rate of violent crime that you have to live with in comparison . In place with good gun laws the means for those seeking easy violence can be difficult and obviously acid seems to be the easy button. Kyriakos is not wrong say to really dangerous with a knife does require skill or at least strength and luck or absolute surprise (assuming we are talking a spring knife that you carry concealed in public - given the number of police I saw hanging about in London I am fairly sure walking around with Bowie Knife on your belt would elicit some interest from the cops or a call to what 999? from people). From the last more careful study I saw the rise is more gang related that cultural change related. So maybe the first step is like the ones in the US to take the some drugs that are precursors for meth off the open shopping selves at the Chemist. From your link I be interested to understand the dynamic of the fake attacks mentioned.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

@Conon: I would tip on gang violence too.

According to data from the London Metropolitan Police,^[88] a demographic breakdown of known suspects in London attacks for the period (2002–2016) showed White Europeans comprising 32% of suspects, African Caribbeans 38% and Asian 6%. Victims for the same period were 45% White Europeans, 25% African Caribbeans and 19% Asian. Known suspects were overwhelmingly male, 77% of known suspects were male and just 2% of suspects female. Four out of five victims in 2016 were male in contrast to other countries where women are most frequently victimized by men.<sup>[87]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#Pakistan_2</sup>



I would surely feel safer on a trip in London than for example in Virginia...

A guy in the Tourist Office only needs to have a bad day and then...

[95thrifleman]

nevermind

[sumskilz]

@Mithridates: I have highlighted the european countries for you.

No European country on that list is among those said to be "typically associated with acid assault" other than the UK.

I looked at Israel because I was surprised to see it on the list since I'd never heard of it happening despite having lived in the country for years, but it turns out there were no Israeli perpetrators. Most of it was this sort of thing:

In 1983 acid attacks were reported to be carried out by Mujama al-Islamiya against men and woman who spoke out against the Mujama in the Islamic University of Gaza.[127] Additional attacks by Mujama al-Islamiya were reported through 1986.[128] During the First Intifada, Hamas and other Islamist factions conducted an organized intimidation of women to dress "modestly" or wear the hijab. Circulars were distributed specifying proper modest dress and behavior. Women who did not conform to these expectations, or to "morality expectations" of secular factions, were vulnerable to attacks which included pouring acid on their bodies, rock pelting, threats, and even rape.[129][130][127][131] B'Tselem has also documented additional attacks with acid in specific attacks involving women in a collaboration context.[131]

In 2006-07, as part of a wider campaign to enforce Islamist moral conduct, the al-Qaida affiliated "Suyuf al-Haq" (Swords of Righteousness) claimed to have thrown acid on the faces of "immodestly" dressed woman in Gaza as well as engaging in intimidation via threats.[132][133][134][135]

That is certainly cultural.

Another example, Bangladesh:

In Bangladesh, such attacks are relatively common.[36] Bangladesh has the highest reported incidence of acid assault in the world.[14] According to the Acid Survivors Foundation in Bangladesh, the country has reported 3000 acid attack victims since 1999, peaking at 262 victims for the year of 2002.[45]...

Acid attacks are often referred to as a "crime of passion", fueled by jealousy and revenge.[14] Actual cases though, show that they are usually the result of rage at a woman who rebuffs the advances of a male. For the country of Bangladesh, such passion is often rooted in marriage and relationships. One study showed that refusal of marriage proposals accounted for 55% of acid assaults, with abuse from a husband or other family member (18%), property disputes (11%) and refusal of sexual or romantic advances (2%) as other leading causes.[26]

I guess you could say that's cultural to some degree.

Different cultures, different causes, but it seems what is currently happening in the UK is somewhat unique.

[95thrifleman]

Well to fair you link is not about London but the stats for England and Wales overall. And while true they did spike (in London) but they have receded. I'm just saying from an American perspective they represent a very low rate of violent crime that you have to live with in comparison . In place with good gun laws the means for those seeking easy violence can be difficult and obviously acid seems to be the easy button. Kyriakos is not wrong say to really dangerous with a knife does require skill or at least strength and luck or absolute surprise (assuming we are talking a spring knife that you carry concealed in public - given the number of police I saw hanging about in London I am fairly sure walking around with Bowie Knife on your belt would elicit some interest from the cops or a call to what 999? from people). From the last more careful study I saw the rise is more gang related that cultural change related. So maybe the first step is like the ones in the US to take the some drugs that are precursors for meth off the open shopping selves at the Chemist. From your link I be interested to understand the dynamic of the fake attacks mentioned.

It's one of the reasons for the drop in terror attacks between the IRA and islamic groups. The IRA had guns (supplied by Americans) while the islamic lone wolves have to deal with UK gun laws.

Those draconians laws Americans rant about save British lives.

[Mithradates]

@Mithridates: I have highlighted the european countries for you.

Those countries are not on the "countries typically associated with acid assault" list, probaly because acid attacks are not prevalent there?

Well to fair you link is not about London but the stats for England and Wales overall. And while true they did spike (in London) but they have receded. I'm just saying from an American perspective they represent a very low rate of violent crime that you have to live with in comparison.

Everything is relative I guess, what you would see as "low rate" could be "unacceptably high" for someone else.

In place with good gun laws the means for those seeking easy violence can be difficult and obviously acid seems to be the easy button. Kyriakos is not wrong say to really dangerous with a knife does require skill or at least strength and luck or absolute surprise (assuming we are talking a spring knife that you carry concealed in public - given the number of police I saw hanging about in London I am fairly sure walking around with Bowie Knife on your belt would elicit some interest from the cops or a call to what 999? from people).

You would be arrested, its illegal in the UK to have a knife on you in public, only a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less is permitted. Spring knifes are banned in general. I was not kidding, you have to be 18+ to buy a gun in Texas, and you must be 18+ to buy a kitchen knife in the UK.

From the last more careful study I saw the rise is more gang related that cultural change related.

Isnt that the same? Gang uhh.. cultural change?

I be interested to understand the dynamic of the fake attacks mentioned.

Acid attacks are so common, people are so aware of them that if you spray or pour something into someone's face they will panic because they will think it was acid. The panic will last only for a little time but thats enough to take their valuables without resistance.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

@sumskilz: Mithradates claimed, this wouldn't happen in Warsaw and Vienna. I posted a list, which showed all countries, where acid attacks happened, including many european ones. So his claim is wrong, its cultural and wouldn't happen in Europe.

Two cases from Germany:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Germany.html

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-in...-idUKKBN1GG0ZN

One stalking, one political or organized crime motivated.

[Mithradates]

Erm... I said an "acid and knife attack epidemic" and no, you dont see that in Warsaw or Vienna.

[Cookiegod]

You missed the point though. I had contradicted conon because normally, acid is NOT a weapon used for coldblooded crimes such as robbery. It is normally an emotional one, such as ex-boyfriends/ex-girlfriends having a "if I can't have you, no one else should either!" fit. It's something messed up psychological.
conon was right though, it does happen in England. And that's really messed up, to be honest. From the perspective of the perpetrator, you have to be much more psyched to knowingly use something that inflicts massive pain, rather than something where much of the damage is immediate (and you don't see much of the internal bleeding etc.). So I was genuinely surprised that people can really do that.

It's really messed up.

Conon's article though also specifically mentions that this is a specifically UK thing:

In 2017, most acid attacks around the world were aimed at women by men, typically to do with rejected marriage proposals or sexual advances. In the UK, though, the violence was predominately male-on-male (with some notable exceptions) and – according to former members and police – related to gang activity.

Primarily, acid attacks are used to settle disputes, enact revenge and rob people, increasing in number at a time when all violent crime is skyrocketing.

The examples you list in your latest post are also most likely revenge, not profit driven. It's less clear with the CFO, since his crime hasn't been solved, but given that there's no mention of a robbery and they'd waited at his home for him to return from his jog, that's a somewhat safe bet.



Obviously, gang violence, racial and social segregation in ghetto suburbs and an overwhelmed policeforce are to blame, but those can also be found in e.g. France. Maybe even to a higher degree.

But I haven't heard from widespread acid attacks there.

So the answer is most likely this:

One little-known fact is that, prior to their outrage last summer, the Conservative government (then under the leadership of David Cameron) actually relaxed laws in 2015 around the sale of acid, making it no longer necessary for retailers of dangerous substances to register with their local councils. This came against the warnings of their own advisory board and medical experts, and resulted in the sale of untold amounts of untraceable acid – in a move that can only be attributed to the Tories' usual evangelical zeal to deregulate everything.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

@Cookiegod: I can agree, but in UK its obviously then social and political caused (broken neighbourhoods, too lax chemical laws), not cultural, as it has nothing to do with culture as obviously white and african-caribean doing this crimes in nearly equal parts.

According to data from the London Metropolitan Police,^[88] a demographic breakdown of known suspects in London attacks for the period (2002–2016) showed White Europeans comprising 32% of suspects, African Caribbeans 38% and Asian 6%. Victims for the same period were 45% White Europeans, 25% African Caribbeans and 19% Asian. Known suspects were overwhelmingly male, 77% of known suspects were male and just 2% of suspects female. Four out of five victims in 2016 were male in contrast to other countries where women are most frequently victimized by men.^[87]

[conon394]

Spring knifes are banned in general.

Didn't know that I am used to carrying mine almost always put in my check on bag when and pick it when I travel. Quite useful really. Glad no fuzz in London noticed me use in public for completely legal reasons. In the US by and large you are only in trouble if you fail to inform a cop when interacting with them in a situation where they are detaining you.

But again the situation seems to one where other easy means of disproportionate violence have been largely manged out of use. By that i mean a modern 9 mm automatic gives pretty much anybody the power to do a lot death at range and easily [Side note there was back in the day a editorial in the NYT by a retired police commissioner for keeping the old style revolvers because of the effort needed to shoot (trigger weight) gave a cop who started shooting time to think if he or she should keep shooting where as a 13 round glock allows all those the cops shot an unarmed man 30 times...]. A Knife is a fairly intimate and up close weapon. Fine if you are good or have somebody restrained. But your victim can run away and the act of pulling it out is sorta hostile. So I can see how how human ingenuity can lead to acid. After all It cheap - Guns at least decent ones are not cheap even in the US and I assume black market ones in the UK are really not. And it looks innocuous put in what a water bottle or spray bottle.

So again what I see is mostly the untended consequence of effectively managing other tools of violence and not acting quickly to put a finger in another hole in the dyke