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Thread: DLC expansion Ideas

  1. #21

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    I really don't think there should be a start for Guandu itself. I just feel it would be a bit of a pointless start, frankly most games as Cao Cao you will probably be running in to Yuan Shao anyway, lord knows I have. IMO a more interesting start would be the aftermath of Guandu starting after Yuan Shao's death in 202. So you have Yuan Shao's sons in the north fighting amongst themselves and against Cao Cao, Liu Bei in Jing province, Sun Quan still trying to establish his state after the still fairly recent death of Sun Ce. It would also be a good oppurtunity to introduce the Wuhuan. If we assume a 194/5 start would coincide with a Shanyue expansion since it would be in large part about Sun Ce's conquests(among other things), then a post Guandu start would be a good opportunity to serve as an introduction for a Steppe Tribes DLC since IIRC the Wuhuan tribes supported the Yuans.

    Same thing with Chi Bi, a post Red Cliffs start seems more interesting to me then a start that starts with Red Cliffs. Sun Quan consolidating his position even further and pushing against Wei and Liu Bei trying to secure Yi Province. Ma Chao's rebellion could also be scripted and he could maybe start as a playable vassal. Not sure what else they could do though, maybe they can exaggerate the amount of fires Cao Cao had to put out after Red Cliffs to make it so a Wei player has something to do.

    As for a Rise of Jin start, I'm not sure. I'm frankly just not super informed of the specifics of that event. I don't think Wei ever really split apart into full on civil war with clear territories being established did it?

  2. #22

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    We can infer some possibilities from data mining of the database. What I found looking around or what others found looking around include:

    1) Elephant animations, not carried over from Rome2 but in the very specific 3 Kingdoms format/organization.
    2) 4 religions, though I only saw them in a single db table. Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and Yellow Turban.

    The first clearly points to the Nanman, given their use of elephants seems common in pop culture of the Three Kingdoms - Dynasty Warriors and some 1994 Chinese tv series of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms at least. I am not sure if they show up in the official. The second is unclear - we don't see religion in the game right now, and it begs the question what the Nanman would be because they clearly are not Confucianist. There apparently was some Taoist general/state in Sichuan briefly but I don't know anything beyond coming across it on wiki. Buddhism had barely reached China at this point so I don't see any of them being Buddhist. The only Buddhist state I know of would be Khotan or the Tarim Basin oasis. Does the map reach that far? I can never tell since I'm not familiar with China's geographic scale and the harder to discern interior.

    CA explicitly said they want to release those "Chapters" which are not mini campaigns but rather different periods of the Three Kingdoms. They said it would be in between a culture pack (Attila's Celts, Norse, Desert Kingdoms) and an expansion (age of Charlemagne, The Last Roman). Focus on that, between. In other words:
    -It will have new cultures and new units (culture pack) but not everything will be new (Lots of the old players. Liu Bei based in Shu-Han region for instance)
    -It will have a new campaign layout but not be a new map.

    So it's what AHumpierRogue said, you'd have the culture pack feature with it a different campaign start and likely some new units thrown in. There's animations that are WIP for crossbows on horseback (with and without shield), we have the two handed swordsmen missing (those one handed swordsmen without shields that someone gets already don't count), there's plenty they can throw in to jazz up existing factions.

    I also think Warring States/Birth of China is entirely plausible as a standalone expansion Akin to Attila or possibly Age of Charlemagne (not standalone but practically a full expansion not just a mini campaign). It'd just omit the romance mode and be records mode only.

  3. #23

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Personally I think it's probable that they originally wanted to make religion a thing but just decided against it at some point in development and those references are just what is left of that phase of development. I don't think there will be a DLC that adds religion to the game. The current Faction Support system works well enough already frankly. It's clear that Han factions would already have mixed Daoist/Confucian populations and Yellow Turbans are Yellow Turban religion(Which is basically just Spicy Daoism). Buddhism was a thing in China at this time but not super popular, it would grow in popularity in the period after this however and there is even a Buddhist monk in the novel IIRC.

    CA probably just decided there wasn't enough real religious conflict in this era to make religion a mechanic worth implementing, and faction support can just infer religion automatically.

  4. #24
    Lionheart11's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Gunpowder(rockets) and exotic ballista , 40 units.
    "illegitimi non carborundum"

    TW RIP

  5. #25

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Basically, four barbarian DLC packs, with 3 new factions per DLC:

    1. The Yue tribes
    a. Shanyue (Starting in Jian'an)
    b. Laoyue (Starting in Yulin)
    c. Li (Starting in Hainan) not really part of the Yue, but for naming convention, have to put them here.

    2. The Man tribes
    a. Wuqi (Starting in Wuling)
    b. Bandun (Starting in Ba)
    c. Ailao (Starting in Yongchang, or the furthest Southwest of the map)

    3. The Qiang tribes
    a. Di (Starting in Shu)
    b. Canlang (Starting in Wudu)
    c. Zhong/Niaowu (Starting in Longxi)

    4. The Steppe tribes
    a. Xiongnu (Starting in Shuofang)
    b. Xianbei (Starting in Yanmen)
    c. Wuhuan (Starting in Longxi)

    5. The Korean tribes
    a. Gaogouli (Starting in Manchuria)
    b. Baekje (Starting in Central Korea)
    c. Silla (Starting in Southern Korea)

  6. #26

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahiga View Post
    CA explicitly said they want to release those "Chapters" which are not mini campaigns but rather different periods of the Three Kingdoms. They said it would be in between a culture pack (Attila's Celts, Norse, Desert Kingdoms) and an expansion (age of Charlemagne, The Last Roman). Focus on that, between. In other words:
    -It will have new cultures and new units (culture pack) but not everything will be new (Lots of the old players. Liu Bei based in Shu-Han region for instance)
    -It will have a new campaign layout but not be a new map.
    I think this is very on point, especially considering the lack of time-period accurate units in-game, that they've shelved most of them to DLC.

    So it's what AHumpierRogue said, you'd have the culture pack feature with it a different campaign start and likely some new units thrown in. There's animations that are WIP for crossbows on horseback (with and without shield), we have the two handed swordsmen missing (those one handed swordsmen without shields that someone gets already don't count), there's plenty they can throw in to jazz up existing factions.

    I also think Warring States/Birth of China is entirely plausible as a standalone expansion Akin to Attila or possibly Age of Charlemagne (not standalone but practically a full expansion not just a mini campaign). It'd just omit the romance mode and be records mode only.
    Last edited by La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham; June 05, 2019 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Corrected formatting mistake

  7. #27

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
    Basically, four barbarian DLC packs, with 3 new factions per DLC:

    1. The Yue tribes
    a. Shanyue (Starting in Jian'an)
    b. Laoyue (Starting in Yulin)
    c. Li (Starting in Hainan) not really part of the Yue, but for naming convention, have to put them here.

    2. The Man tribes
    a. Wuqi (Starting in Wuling)
    b. Bandun (Starting in Ba)
    c. Ailao (Starting in Yongchang, or the furthest Southwest of the map)

    3. The Qiang tribes
    a. Di (Starting in Shu)
    b. Canlang (Starting in Wudu)
    c. Zhong/Niaowu (Starting in Longxi)

    4. The Steppe tribes
    a. Xiongnu (Starting in Shuofang)
    b. Xianbei (Starting in Yanmen)
    c. Wuhuan (Starting in Longxi)

    5. The Korean tribes
    a. Gaogouli (Starting in Manchuria)
    b. Baekje (Starting in Central Korea)
    c. Silla (Starting in Southern Korea)
    This would be incredibly disappointing.

  8. #28

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton View Post
    This would be incredibly disappointing.
    How so?

  9. #29

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
    How so?
    Because the tribes never played a big role during this era apart from the Nanman Tribe. I have no problem with them being added but to centre 5 DLC's around them when they were practically insignificant in the grand scheme of things would be disappointing. There are so many interesting people during this era it would be a waste to use resources on insignificant tribes with barely any historical knowledge at all.

    I'd rather them focus on expanding the lore, new start dates and upgrading the political system to better than what it currently is.

  10. #30

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Did Tocharians play any role as mercenaries in this era?

  11. #31

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    Did Tocharians play any role as mercenaries in this era?
    Don't think so.

  12. #32

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton View Post
    Because the tribes never played a big role during this era apart from the Nanman Tribe. I have no problem with them being added but to centre 5 DLC's around them when they were practically insignificant in the grand scheme of things would be disappointing. There are so many interesting people during this era it would be a waste to use resources on insignificant tribes with barely any historical knowledge at all.

    I'd rather them focus on expanding the lore, new start dates and upgrading the political system to better than what it currently is.
    To be fair, that's assuming they won't keep filling out the map with other Warlord factions.

    As far as their significance is concerned, all three kingdoms had to devote a significant amount of resources to dealing with barbarian factions. All of them did major campaigns to settle the tribes.
    1. Wu's forces had to significantly deal with Yue tribes resistance throughout the period. He Qi's campaigns come to mind.

    2. Shu had to constantly deal with the Di, Man and Southern Qiang tribes. You have the famous Nanman campaign from the novel. The Nanman kept resisting after he left (As for instance Zhang Yi and Ma Zhong's biographies can testify.)

    And these tribes were embedded thorughout their territory, which severely hampered their ability to internally consolidate against Wei.

    3. Wei had to consecutively deal with the Qiang, the Wuhuan, the Korean kingdoms as well as Xianbei raids throughout the period. You have the likewise famous campaign against the Wuhuan by Cao Cao.

    From a gameplay perspective, they will bring about a varied roster from the Chinese forces as well as, hopefully different gameplay mechanics.

    This game is also about Whatifs. As history clearly shows, not even 40 years after China was unified by Jin, invasion by Northern tribes shattered the Chinese State. Why would it be unconceivable that the player couldn't do the same thing some 100 years before, when the country was overrun by Civil War?

    Regardless, of course CA should focus on other faction DLCs besides the barbarian ones. The ones I suggested were merely ideas to have all borders that had barbarians, properly covered and be dangerous throughout the period as they were supposed to historically have been.

  13. #33

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Calling the Koreans a tribe is a bit much don't you think? They were an advanced culture by this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton View Post
    Because the tribes never played a big role during this era apart from the Nanman Tribe. I have no problem with them being added but to centre 5 DLC's around them when they were practically insignificant in the grand scheme of things would be disappointing. There are so many interesting people during this era it would be a waste to use resources on insignificant tribes with barely any historical knowledge at all.

    I'd rather them focus on expanding the lore, new start dates and upgrading the political system to better than what it currently is.
    1. To say that the Non-Han groups besides the southern tribes did not have a big role is true. But they did have a role, they did affect things. As Jolt says Wu had many campaigns against the Shanyue, these campaigns were basically all cut from the novel with not even a mention of the Yue I don't think, but in history the Wu conflict against the Shanyue was huge in scale. Elswhere there were little conflicts like Cao Cao against the Wuhuan and the various Wei wars both with Goguryeo against Gongsun Du and against Goguryeo. Interacting with the Steppe tribes was basically unavoidable especially for the minor characters that are playable in this game like Ma Teng and Gongsun Zan who border them, not having there be some sort of interaction with the Steppe tribes like there is now is probably more inaccurate than having them have a role.

    2. While they wouldn't have a huge role in the 3K period itself, they would play a role in the period following which CA might see as enough.

    3. We already know Chapter Packs are a thing. What's the harm in non-Han factions being added as DLC if we already have Chapter Packs? What more could they add besides stuff that will be added in Chapter packs which we know are coming? Adding a Steppe Horseman isn't going to mean the game will be ruined. Also frankly, if CA decides it is worth the investment they will make the DLC.

    4. It's just more fun this way. Maybe it's not accurate to have the Korean Empire stretching from Vietnam to Manchuria but it'd be pretty fun. Besides, it's not like the Yellow Turban theocracy or Ma Teng becoming Emperor, or literally most options are exactly historically accurate anyway. I'd rather they have some fun with the period.

    As for Tocharians, I don't believe they did. Wei did supposedly take control of the Western regions again in this era but I wouldn't put too much faith in that control being anything more than talk and lipservice.

    That said, maybe I'm some racist and I don't even know but in terms of military and general aesthetic, how much difference is there between the Qiang and Steppe Tribes? I feel like they could all be added in some big "Northern Tribes" DLC. Add the Wuhuan, Xianbei, and a Qiang tribe with maybe Han Sui as FLC too.
    Last edited by AHumpierRogue; June 07, 2019 at 07:59 PM.

  14. #34
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Not sure what will be next DLC but we got today another DLC entry into SteamDB. So currently there are two unknown entries..
    https://steamdb.info/app/779340/dlc/

  15. #35

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by AHumpierRogue View Post
    Calling the Koreans a tribe is a bit much don't you think? They were an advanced culture by this point.
    TBF, the Han like the Romans called everyone barbarians right? Even the Yue people of the south had kingdoms and very sophisticated bronze working techniques, yet got called tribes and barbarians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    Did Tocharians play any role as mercenaries in this era?
    I thought there were figurines of Tocharian mercenaries in a hoplite stance found in the Han or 3k era? Not entirely sure.
    Last edited by Intranetusa; June 10, 2019 at 12:15 PM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Ah... Hearing you fine folks talk, makes me fear for my wallet :s

    As I am blissfully unaware of most of chinese history, I have no specific preference for DLC additions, I just REALLY hope the additional gameplay is worth the money.

    Just shifting around the existing factions with a few new units added in for flavour doesn't sound too appealing to me but...

    Hopefully it's the best dang DLC we've ever seen instead ^^

  17. #37
    Nizam's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    I wanna play as Huns.
    I wanna play as Korea.
    I wanna play as Tibet.
    I wanna see tons of RPG things (weapons, horses, costumes, event, quests...)

    Ottoman Total Overhaul received the 2nd favorite Overhaul/Compilation Mod - 2016 award!
    by_TotalWarTurkiye

  18. #38

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by ABullishBear View Post
    Ah... Hearing you fine folks talk, makes me fear for my wallet :s

    As I am blissfully unaware of most of chinese history, I have no specific preference for DLC additions, I just REALLY hope the additional gameplay is worth the money.

    Just shifting around the existing factions with a few new units added in for flavour doesn't sound too appealing to me but...

    Hopefully it's the best dang DLC we've ever seen instead ^^
    This doesn't sound like the game for you. Most of the glaring content missing is just different characters and times. All the characters were Chinese and all fought in roughly the same way, using the same technologies and techniques

    CA is already greatly stretching the characters as it is to differentiate them and give them unique mechanics that they clearly didn't have in history or the books.

    Ultimately outside of unique faction mechanics and units, that's all that's coming.

    They could add more universal mechanics in the game to make it deeper too, but in general what's expected right now is to widen the roster, rather than deepen the mechanics.

  19. #39

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    I don't care too much about the characters, that does not mean this game is not for me.
    There's a reason they included records mode.
    And there is plenty more to like about the game except for the characters, such as improved diplomacy, a battle AI that actually becomes smarter as battle difficulty increases, etc...

    I'm just fairly disappointed in the unit roster at launch, and what I said about additional gameplay can just as well mean more varied unit rosters.


    I'm hoping once the workshop comes out mods will address the lack of variety in the unit roster,
    if not I'll figure out how to do it myself.

  20. #40

    Default Re: DLC expansion Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
    This doesn't sound like the game for you. Most of the glaring content missing is just different characters and times. All the characters were Chinese and all fought in roughly the same way, using the same technologies and techniques....
    There is plenty of room for additional factions and adding unit diversity.

    There were a ton of non-Han factions during the timeperiod that aren't added in the game yet. And even for the Han Chinese factions, different regions had different units and fighting styles that varied due to the climate, geography, local people, local resources, etc. Take a look at Tiger Knight's diverse unit roster for Wu, Shu, and Wei for example.

    It makes no sense to send horse archers of the northern steppes or pike and crossbow infantry blocks of the temperate central plains into the wet and hot subtropical climate of southern China that is filled with jungles and mountains. So even the Han Chinese factions can have more diverse unit rosters if the game shifts more to regional recruiting systems.

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