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Thread: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

  1. #161

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Not really, particularly when Pompeo threatens to intervene in the British democracy to stop Corbyn becoming prime-minister, and nobody says nothing.Zero.
    In this case, the amount of cognitive dissonance is not merely outstanding, it's much more than that- it is an amazing hypocrisy.What's the name given to those who ask Pompeo to intervene against the UK democratic institutions? traitors?
    Well, I know you're a big fan of quoting Haaretz editorials, so here's one for you:

    It’s also painfully obvious that due to Trump’s unpopularity in Britain, any statements along these lines are counter-productive. Indeed, vocal opposition from Trump is a gift to Corbyn just as much as his endorsement would be a burden to Johnson or any other Conservative.

    Seen in that light, Pompeo’s statement was a massive blunder that transgressed diplomatic norms as well as undermining the U.S. policy objectives - keeping Corbyn out of power - he seeks to achieve.

    But there are two problems with filing this story alongside other Trump administration stumbles.

    One is that the claim that Pompeo vowing to intervene in U.K. politics has been taken out of context, and a fair interpretation of what he said doesn’t back up the belief that the U.S. is planning to forestall a Corbyn government by fair means or foul.

    The other is that the United States shouldn’t be the only foreign nation expressing alarm about the possibility of a Corbyn government. Nor is there any moral or realpolitik argument to be made in favor of the rest of the West standing mutely by, as Britain contemplates putting its fate into the hands of a confirmed opponent of the Western alliance, and the values it upholds, who is also an anti-Semite.

    As for the context of the Pompeo statement, it’s far from clear that he was warning of a plan to intervene in a British election.

    What he did do was to answer a question from an anonymous American Jewish leader who posed a frightening hypothetical to the secretary of state. The person who asked the question referenced the Labour Party’s troubling recent history of tolerance for anti-Semitism and Corbyn’s record of indifference to the problem, as well as his actions and gestures that expressed support for Islamist terrorists who work for Israel’s destruction.

    This question was posed: "If Corbyn is elected, would you be willing to work with us to take on actions if life becomes very difficult for Jews in the U.K.?"

    According to the Washington Post, Pompeo’s response was to say: "It could be that Mr. Corbyn manages to run the gantlet and get elected. It’s possible. You should know, we won’t wait for him to do those things to begin to push back. We will do our level best," he said to fervent applause from attendees. "It’s too risky and too important and too hard once it’s already happened," he said.

    Read in context, it’s just as easy to see it as a pledge to warn Corbyn to avoid anti-Semitic actions and statements, and not to act in such a way as to make life difficult for British Jews, rather than a threat to intervene in an election.

    But whether you are willing to jump to the conclusion that Trump and Pompeo would try to stop Corbyn from ever gaining the power to endanger Jewish life, there is a difference between an injudicious statement and one that is morally wrong.

    What Pompeo said might well have been the former but it is not the latter.

    That Britain might well be soon led by a man who has honored terrorists who shed the blood of Jewish innocents, and has no interest in disassociating himself or his party from anti-Zionist invective that is indistinguishable from anti-Semitism, is a shocking state of affairs...

    It is the moral obligation of all the leaders of the Western alliance to warn Corbyn that they would treat actions that created a hostile environment for British Jews as unacceptable and that there would be consequences should he act in that manner. A stance that regarded such an outrage as no one else’s business would be a reminder of an earlier tragic era in European history that must not be repeated.
    I suspect you're suddenly not going to find Haaretz so authoritative in this case, for some reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Corbyn praised the man after the attack?
    Yes, after multiple attacks. Several of Corbyn's "brothers" were well-known to have been responsible for multiple terror attacks at the time he praised them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  2. #162
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Hamas was elected democratically. Just because Israel(that has negotiated with Hamas again and again) considers them terrorists, doesnt mean they are. And as i said earlier if you have problems with that then Israel shouldnt have elected a prime minsiter who was responsible for the worst terrrorist attack against a western target in the history of Palestine.

  3. #163
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Hamas was elected democratically. Just because Israel(that has negotiated with Hamas again and again) considers them terrorists, doesnt mean they are. And as i said earlier if you have problems with that then Israel shouldnt have elected a prime minsiter who was responsible for the worst terrrorist attack against a western target in the history of Palestine.
    Oh look. Whataboutism. Change a record Papay, that doesn't fly around here.
    And it's not just Israel that defines Hamas as a terrorist organisation. And they certainly are terrorists, targeting almost exclusively civilians, firing from amongst civilians (which is a double war crime).. the list goes on and on. No country recognises Hamas as the legitimate government in Gaza, because Gaza is not a state and doesn't claim to be.

  4. #164

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Just because Israel(that has negotiated with Hamas again and again) considers them terrorists, doesnt mean they are.
    Refer to my example of one of Corbyn's friend's attacks detailed in this post. Are you claiming that attack was not terrorism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #165
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Refer to my example of one of Corbyn's friend's attacks detailed in this post. Are you claiming that attack was not terrorism?
    To which i repeat you that elected israeli prime ministers have committed terrorist acts too. But if i claim that Ariel Sharon or Menahem Begin were terrorists and i demand boycot then i am accused as an antisemite. So i am sorry, i find this talk about Corbyn who has done zero terrorist attacks about how he is a terrorist sympathizer quite hypocritical

  6. #166

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    To which i repeat you that elected israeli prime ministers have committed terrorist acts too. But if i claim that Ariel Sharon or Menahem Begin were terrorists and i demand boycot then i am accused as an antisemite. So i am sorry, i find this talk about Corbyn who has done zero terrorist attacks about how he is a terrorist sympathizer quite hypocritical
    Again with the whataboutism, and again with the antisemitic view that all Jews are a hive mind. British Jews are not Israelis. Even most Israeli Jews today were either not born or not old enough to vote when when 33% voted for Menachim Begin in 1977. Although I would condemn it as terrorism based on the circumstances, the bombing of a military headquarters which included multiple warnings for the occupants evacuate is not on the same level as deliberately bombing families with young children.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #167
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    To which i repeat you that elected israeli prime ministers have committed terrorist acts too. But if i claim that Ariel Sharon or Menahem Begin were terrorists and i demand boycot then i am accused as an antisemite.
    Whataboutism, and borderline anti-semetism. Imagine if Sumskillz was a Muslim, having this debate and you'd come in saying "but what about Saudi Arabia?" just because he's a Muslim, even though he isn't even from Saudi Arabia (he isn't from Israel either, btw). I'd say that that would be borderline Islamophobic.

    So i am sorry, i find this talk about Corbyn who has done zero terrorist attacks about how he is a terrorist sympathizer quite hypocritical
    Had he committed a terrorist attack he wouldn't be a terrorist sympathiser, he'd be a terrorist. You clearly do not understand the terms that you're using.

  8. #168
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Yes, after multiple attacks.
    I'm surprised...he was aware, you said. Was he fully aware, really? link please. Hmm..who knows.
    ----
    Anyway,
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    ...the attack was not terrorism?
    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Had he committed a terrorist attack he wouldn't be a terrorist sympathiser
    Terrorism, terrorists, terrorist sympathisers.
    Terrorists and terrorism. Defining International Terrorism in Light of Liberation Movements
    The only question yet to be resolve is whether liberation movements or wars of self-determination constitute terrorism
    An example.
    Holden Roberto was an Angolan independence leader who founded Union of the Peoples of Angola, later called the National Liberation Front of Angola (FNLA).He was considered "one of the pioneers of Angolan liberation struggle," whose name encouraged a generation of Angolans to opt for resistance and combat for the country's independence".Holden Roberto had strong ties to the U.S. The United Sates National Security began giving Roberto aid in the 1950s, paying him $6,000 annually.

    Leading a group of 4,000 to 5,000 terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever, he launched an incursion into Angola on March 15, 1961, killing whoever they encountered en route. Thousands were killed in this bloody massacre. Hundreds and hundreds of Europeans, children and women were killed,violated, dismembered in a barbaric way. Some photos are worth way more than a thousand words. Follow the links, and watch the horror.


    So, what happened after all that bloodshed? in the next year, 1962, the United States National Security increased his salary to $10,000.
    ----------
    When Pompeo suggests US could bloc Corbyn from n. 10 downing street, what is supposed to happen? is that an allusion to Corbyn's physical elimination ?

    it's not a surreal question, because in the last three years, the US/Israel tandem is becoming increasingly passive/aggressive day by day. In 2106, Netanyahu personally phoned New Zealand's Foreign Minister Murray McCully to warn him a UN resolution co-sponsored by the country was a "declaration of war and there will be consequences" Israel warned New Zealand that UN resolution was 'declaration of war

    In my opinion, what is at stake is Palestine, not the Jews or Israel. As we know, Jeremy Corbyn backs recognition of independent Palestine as Labour calls for halt of UK arms expert to Israel

    So, does Corbyn hate the Jews? does Corbyn hate the Jews of Israel? has Corbyn ever denied Israel's right to exist? I don't think so. Siding with the Palestinian struggle is not anti-semitic, as the UN points out: "Struggle of Palestinians Directed at Colonial Occupation of Land, People, Not Judaism", Struggle of Palestinians Directed at Colonial ... - the United Nations

    And even so, opposition to Zionism is neither antisemitic nor racist, it is a legit moral stance founded on the belief that the creation of Israel has a profound injustice at its roots. Following the UN and the EU principles, I defend Israel's right to exist. But the Palestinians also have the right and duty to defend their existence from a foreign occupier. Using a football analogy-the moral match has no winners, and ends in a draw.
    In 1940 the annual conference of the Labour Party passed a resolution favorable to Zionism. The resolution called for allowing the Jews "into this land in such numbers as to become a majority. Let's the Arabs be encouraged to be to move out as the Jews move in". Here: Britain Since 1945: A Political History

    The Party's 1941 adoption of ethnic cleansing -"lets the Arabs be encouraged to move out as the Jews move in"- sent a strong signal to the Jewish leadership. In the UK, Corbyn has always been under fire due to the fact that he is the first major political party leader in many years to vehemently resist Israel's expansionism, and standing almost alone for his open support of the Palestinian cause.
    And yet-almost paradoxically I say - the official UK pro-Palestinian position remains consistently clear. (somehow that doesn't surprise me at all, Britain has long been a land of political paradoxes. Britain relationship with Europe has always been a geopolitical paradox-part of Europe but not in it).
    The British Government's current position on Israel and Palestine
    We consider that the level of control that Israel retains over the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza amounts to occupation under international law, Hence Israel’s presence is governed by the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, to which Israel is a state party.

    The UK is firmly committed to the promotion and protection of human rights and compliance with international law in the Occupied Palestinian Territories and we continue to call on Israel to abide by its obligations under international law. We condemn all violence by settlers against Palestinians and urge the Israeli authorities to thoroughly investigate every instance and bring those responsible to justice. We repeatedly call on Israel to abide by its obligations under international law .

    ​The UK is gravely concerned by Israeli proposals to relocate Palestinian and Bedouin populations, which the UN has said could constitute forcible transfer.
    We regularly make clear our serious concerns about the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories to the Israeli authorities, both bilaterally and in co-operation with EU partners. These concerns include the evictions of Palestinians and demolition of Palestinian property, which cause unnecessary suffering to ordinary Palestinians, calls into question Israel’s commitment to a viable two-state solution, and, in all but the most exceptional cases, are contrary to International Humanitarian Law.

    We regularly make clear our serious concerns about the situation in East Jerusalem to the Israeli authorities and the Municipality of Jerusalem, both bilaterally and in co-operation with EU partners. These concerns include: the evictions of Palestinians and demolition of Palestinian property; the construction of illegal Israeli settlements; removal of residency rights from Palestinians; possible unilateral changes to the municipal borders; and severe difficulties of access to Jerusalem for Palestinians from the West Bank, or for those residents of Jerusalem who live beyond the Separation Barrier. The EU issued a statement on 24 November raising concerns over this issue
    Allow me to make a little joke by saying that Netanyahu should also personally phone UK's Foreign Minister to warn him any UN resolution co-sponsored by Britain is a "declaration of war and there will be consequences".
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #169
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Ludicus can you understand that anti-Zionism and praise of Islamists are two different things? It is the latter that correctly attracts accusations of anti-semitism, but unfortunately yes some Zionists do erroneously call the former anti-semitism too. All we need is a little nuance here.

    Equally, Corbyn in the 1980s had every right to criticise Whitehall for its Northern Ireland policy, BUT this does not excuse his praise and support of violent Irish Republican terrorists such as Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness. I feel that his attraction to Sinn Fein is borne of anti-British sentiment, like the claims from his side that Ireland is under occupation which is anti-British rubbish.
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  10. #170

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    In 2014, three men of Palestinian descent set a synagogue on fire in Wuppertal, Germany. In Germany, according to the court anyway, this was not an antisemitic crime because the three were protesting Israel (by setting a random synagogue on fire). This was confirmed in an appeal court, making it look less like an isolated incident.

    If the synagogue arson had been deemed antisemitic as it obviously should have been, it would likely have been classified as "far-right" since nationalist motivation, including Palestinian nationalism, is considered far-right. It couldn't be considered "religious" without there being an unambiguously religious aspect to it.

    Antisemitic crimes can only be classified into the following categories in the official German statistics:

    right-wing
    left-wing
    foreign ideology
    religious ideology
    unknown (this one is rarely used)

    According to the aforementioned poll of German Jews who had experienced antisemitic incidences, the perpetrators were perceived to be:

    41% Muslim extremists
    20% far-right
    16% far-left

    In contrast to the government figures, this is more inline with what is being seen in nearby countries:

    In France, by contrast, more than half of anti-Semitism incidents, and virtually all the violent ones, are perpetrated by immigrants from Muslim countries or their descendants, according to the National Bureau of Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism...

    In the Netherlands, the previous director of CIDI, the country’s foremost watchdog on anti-Semitism, said that Muslims and Arabs are responsible for about 70 percent of all cases recorded in any given year.
    Although:

    In Britain, the Community Security Trust suggests that far-right perpetrators are responsible for 50-60 percent of the incidents where victims offered a physical description of their attackers. This happened in about 30 percent of 1,652 cases in 2018, a 19 percent hike from the previous year.
    A more charitable view of the German authorities including data from Berlin (emphasis mine):

    Poensgen doubted that official German statistics were being deliberately mislabeled for political purposes.

    “Most likely it’s the result of an out-of-date classification system, that for historical reasons is designed to monitor far-right anti-Semitism,” he said.

    He cited one case in 2014 in which about 20 men shouted the Nazi slogan “Sieg heil” at an al-Quds Day march, a pro-Palestinian event where the mostly Muslim participants typically chant anti-Israel and anti-American slogans. The episode appeared as a far-right incident in the Interior Ministry’s records.

    Such mislabeling does, however, help the German far-right’s attempt to discredit the government, Poensgen said.

    RIAS uses a more nuanced classification system than the government’s, he said. Last year, it indicated that the far-right was responsible for about 18 percent of anti-Semitic hate crimes where perpetrators could be affiliated with a population group or ideology. Islamists and anti-Israel activists accounted for about 11 percent of 1,083 cases last year in Berlin (RIAS limited its 2018 monitor report to that city). Other perpetrator categories included conspiracy theorists, the far left and centrists.
    Similar accusations of cover up have been laid against France and Belgium, with some good reason:

    In France and Belgium, authorities are frequently accused of downplaying or sugarcoating left-wing and immigrant anti-Semitism.

    “Today I no longer have full confidence that anti-Semitic hate crimes in France are handled properly,” Sammy Ghozlan, a former police commissioner and founder of France’s National Bureau for Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism, or BNVCA, recently told JTA. He cited a series of perceived failures in the murder trial of a Muslim man who killed his Jewish neighbor while shouting about Allah and calling her a demon.

    The judge presiding over the case recently reopened the issue of the defendant’s sanity — on her own initiative — after he was found fit to stand trial in psychiatric evaluations following his arrest. Critics charge that the court appeared reluctant to say the attack was motivated by anti-Jewish animus.

    In its annual report for 2016, the French National Consultative Commission on Human Rights, a government watchdog, wrote that a “significant part of the anti-Semitic acts (actions and threats) pertains to neo-Nazi ideology, whereas in most other cases the perpetrators’ motivations are difficult to ascertain.”

    It did not mention attacks by Muslims, who BNVCA says are responsible for nearly all violent anti-Semitic incidents in France.

    The report also questioned the very existence of a “new anti-Semitism” generated by critics of Israel, saying that if this new anti-Semitism exists, “then it pertains to a minority” of the cases.

    In Belgium, the lawyer for the country’s federal watchdog against racism, UNIA, in 2017 protested the hate speech conviction of a Palestinian man who shouted about killing Jews at an anti-Israel demonstration event though UNIA was among the initiators of his trial. The conviction was “distorted justice instead of true justice,” the UNIA lawyer wrote.

    Joel Rubinfeld, president of the Belgian League Against Anti-Semitism, said the case showed that UNIA was “part of the problem, not the solution, of anti-Semitism.” The Flemish Forum of Jewish Organizations said in 2017 that it has “lost all confidence” in UNIA.

    Belgian prosecutors recently dismissed a criminal complaint filed against a Turkish cafe owner who in 2014 placed a sign on his business saying dogs are welcome at his business near Liege, “but Jews are not.”

    The prosecutor’s office explained its decision not to prosecute the cafe owner by saying he had promised to write a letter apologizing to the Jewish community. The letter has yet to be seen.
    Source for all quotes and data: Germany is accused of downplaying anti-Semitic attacks by Muslims

    And this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I'm surprised...he was aware, you said. Was he fully aware, really? link please. Hmm..who knows.
    The classic defense of Corbyn is that we can't be sure he's an antisemitic enabling terror supporter, he may just be an idiot, completely unaware of his surroundings, major events related to the issues he's passionate about, and the views of those he regularly associates with. He always claims he didn't know when he's caught in something by the media, over and over and over again. It's quite far-fetched that he knows nothing about the Second Intifada.
    Last edited by sumskilz; June 15, 2019 at 12:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #171
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Islamists and anti-Israel activists accounted for about 11 percent of 1,083 cases last year in Berlin (RIAS limited its 2018 monitor report to that city).

    Obviously the official statistics are correct, as RIAS, which only investigate things in Bavaria and Berlin, as i already state here:

    RIAS has only two centers in Germany, one in Berlin, one in Bavaria.

    These two centers investigate antisemitic crimes only in Berlin and Bavaria.

    In January 2015, the “Association for a Democratic Culture in Berlin” (VDK e.V.) founded the “Department for Research and Information on Antisemitism Berlin” (RIAS Berlin). Alongside Jewish and non-Jewish organizations, RIAS Berlin has built up a Berlin-wide network for reporting antisemitic incidents.

    https://report-antisemitism.de/#/en/about

    Die Recherche- und Informationsstelle Antisemitismus Bayern (RIAS Bayern) nimmt Meldungen über antisemitische Vorfälle auf und unterstützt Betroffene von Antisemitismus in Bayern. (The Research and Information Center Antisemitism Bavaria (RIAS Bayern) records reports of anti-Semitic incidents and supports those affected by anti-Semitism in Bavaria.)


    https://report-antisemitism.de/#/bayern/de/about

    So their numbers are only relevant for the federal states of Berlin and Bavaria. I already have explained, why Berlin is a special case.
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...=#post15791933

    But i'm out of this discussion now, this is the usual antimuslim, antimigrant propaganda thread , fueled from always the same people.
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  12. #172

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    Islamists and anti-Israel activists accounted for about 11 percent of 1,083 cases last year in Berlin (RIAS limited its 2018 monitor report to that city).
    And far-right for about 18 percent. RIAS is obviously more careful in their classification. If they don't know, they don't just force the incident into a default category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    Obviously the official statistics are correct
    By what logic do you come to that conclusion? Do you believe lighting a synagogue on fire to protest Israel is not an antisemitic crime? Because that and counting Hezbollah supporters as far-right is the logic the official statistics appear to at least partially be based on. Arguably there are some similarities between fascist and Islamist ideology, but I don't think Muslims are involved in neo-Nazi groups, which makes the official statistics not very useful, other than as fuel for misleading political narratives and conspiracy theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #173
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    RIAS Berlin is only counting numbers in Berlin, its one of the very few cities were a bigger arabian or palestinian community lives.

    Still jewish cemeteries in whole rural Germany, where nearly no arabs, even turks live, were desecrated with Nazi symbols and antisemitic insults.

    The overwhelming majority are far rights.

    I can judge that because i live in one of the rural regions.

    And i give a what foreign newspaper are writing, when they have opinion parts like this:

    The government of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has faced considerable criticism, including that she is importing anti-Semitism, over her decision to let in more than 2 million immigrants from Syria and the Middle East since 2015.

    Which is nothing more than putting those syrians under general suspicion of being antisemitics and criminals, which is plain spoken nothing else than racism.

    And i give a , what antimuslim British people, Americans, Israelis claim, who are the real antisemitics in Germany.

    I'm born here, i know it better.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; June 15, 2019 at 11:28 AM.
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  14. #174

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post

    And i give a what foreign newspaper are writing, when they have opinion parts like this:

    The government of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has faced considerable criticism, including that she is importing anti-Semitism, over her decision to let in more than 2 million immigrants from Syria and the Middle East since 2015.
    Has Merkel been criticized for her decision?

  15. #175
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    From far right parties yes. But those newspaper is not citing it as not own opinion.

    The newspaper article is also bad researched, as only 770000 Syrians came to Germany since 2011. 2 millions is nonsense.

    http://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlage...ionFile#page=3
    http://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlage...ublicationFile
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  16. #176

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    RIAS Berlin is only counting numbers in Berlin, its one of the very few cities were a bigger arabian or palestinian community lives.
    I caught that the first time, but the conclusion you draw from it is a non-sequitur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    Still jewish cemeteries in whole rural Germany, where nearly no arabs, even turks live, were desecrated with Nazi symbols and antisemitic insults.

    The overwhelming majority are far rights.

    I can judge that because i live in one of the rural regions.
    I have no reason to doubt your subjective perception of the situation in that regard, but also have no reason to doubt the subjective impression of the Jewish victims polled, who perceived the perpetrators as 41% Muslim extremists, 20% far-right, and 16% far-left. These aren't even mutually exclusive claims. Granted there is always some degree of distortion in data based on subjective impressions, but all data points in this case appear to be flawed in their own ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    And i give a what foreign newspaper are writing, when they have opinion parts like this:

    The government of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has faced considerable criticism, including that she is importing anti-Semitism, over her decision to let in more than 2 million immigrants from Syria and the Middle East since 2015.

    Which is nothing more than putting those syrians under general suspicion of being antisemitics and criminals, which is plain spoken nothing else than racism.
    Actually it is nothing more than a statement of fact, in that she has faced that criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    And i give a , what antimuslim British people, Americans, Israelis claim, who are the real antisemitics in Germany.

    I'm born here, i know it better.
    Well this just an irrational rant. Why should anyone take your claim as stronger evidence than a scientific poll of the victims?

    And in this case, I don't believe you, because in your reaction you are clearly demonstrating that you do care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  17. #177

    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    From far right parties yes.
    So she has faced criticism.
    Has some of that criticism included that Merkel is "importing anti-Semitism"?

    But those newspaper is not citing it as not own opinion.
    I am not sure what you are trying to say here.
    The newspaper article is also bad researched, as only 770000 Syrians came to Germany since 2011. 2 millions is nonsense.
    That is not what the newspaper article said.

  18. #178
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    Yes, i care, because what is done in this thread, is nothing more than whitewashing far rights from their responsibility for rising antisemtism, as saying 42 % of antisemitic crime is done by muslims.

    Far rights will spin off this as own fairy tale narrative like "This rise in antisemtism is caused only by the evil muslims and will be worser because of millions of coming syrian refugees. Throw all muslims out of Germany, jews will be safe again and no Eurabia."

    If this claims would be more substantiated with proper studies (How strong was the growth in number of crimes? cultural background? social integrated? naturalizised (german citizenship)?...) instead of subjective feelings and general suspicion, it would be more helpfull and a point to work with.
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    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  19. #179
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    If you think these claims are based on feelings and suspicion, maybe you should read the OP again.

    Per the NYT article:

    Such openness is all the more important because Fraenkelufer Synagogue, like others around Germany, resembles something of a fortress: with an iron fence, security cameras, bulletproof glass covering the stained-glass windows and an incessant police presence on the street in front. Synagogues in Germany have been under police protection since around 1969, when Marxist militants tried to bomb a Jewish community center in West Berlin. The following year, a still-unsolved arson attack on a home for Jewish seniors in Munich left seven people dead.
    We need an open and frank discussion free of gaslighting in order to reduce violence against Germans of racial motives.
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    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  20. #180
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: German Jews warned against wearing kippah in public.

    This is nothing more than an antimuslim and antigerman bash thread, which only aim is to spread antimuslim and antigerman propaganda.

    All european jewish synagogues are massive protected, now after the far-right antisemitic shooting in Pittsburgh jewish communities are discussing, if this should be done in US after the latest attacks against US synagogues too.

    The Aftermath of Tragedy

    Synagogues are debating new security measures after attack

    In Europe, synagogues are protected like fortresses. That took decades


    Will security at American Jewish institutions now mirror that of Europe, with its police protection, armed guards, panic rooms and sterile zones at synagogues?

    BRUSSELS — Will security at American Jewish institutions now mirror that of Europe, with its police protection, armed guards, panic rooms and sterile zones at synagogues?
    It’s a possibility that is being debated more seriously than ever before following the Tree of Life shooting in Pittsburgh in which a gunman killed 11 people.


    Rabbi Jack Moline, president of the Interfaith Alliance, told The Washington Post that posting armed guards outside synagogues in some places would be “prohibitive” to Jewish communal life itself.

    But Gary Sikorski, director of security for the Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Detroit, told the Detroit Jewish News that the idea, suggested by President Donald Trump after the attack, is “not a bad one.”
    European security professionals say that even if Sikorski’s approach prevails, it will take at least a decade and hundreds of millions of dollars before U.S. Jewry’s security infrastructure matches the European counterpart.
    “The security doctrine you see in Europe is the result of decades of evolution,” said Ophir Revach, director of the European Jewish Congress’ Security and Crisis Center. “It was built on lessons from terrorist attacks in the 1960s and adjusted constantly. It’s pretty comprehensive.”
    Even if a critical mass of U.S. Jewish communities decide tomorrow that they want to replicate the European model, Revach said, “Optimistically speaking, it will take at least a decade to achieve.” When it comes to security, he said, “American Jewry is at the beginning of a long journey.”
    In several European countries, synagogues are under constant protection of police or army troops. Most of them have volunteer guards, including armed ones. Many also have a security command room, where trained professionals or volunteers use elaborate video surveillance systems to monitor their premises, often while exchanging information with other Jewish institutions in real time.
    These arrangements regularly prevent violence against congregants.
    In 2015, a volunteer guard outside Copenhagen’s main synagogue was shot dead after engaging an armed Islamist who had intended to carry out a shooting attack inside the building, where dozens of people were celebrating a bat mitzvah. Dan Uzan’s intervention allowed police to shoot the assailant, who never made it inside the shul.
    A year earlier, a dozen or so volunteer guards staved off dozens of rioters who had intended to storm the Synagogue de la Roquette in Paris as payback for Israel’s actions in Gaza. As 200 worshippers waited inside, the defenders held their ground for 20 minutes amid a vicious street brawl with the attackers until police finally arrived at the scene.
    “Dan Uzan’s death was tragic, but from a security point of view it was a system that did what it needed to do,” Revach said.
    Had the Tree of Life synagogue been guarded, “this attack may have been prevented,” he said. “Even armed perpetrators are deterred in a major way by guards.”
    Some American synagogues, like Har Shalom, the largest Conservative synagogue in Potomac, Md., have an armed police presence during services and other events, The Washington Post reported. Community Security Service, a nonprofit, has trained volunteers at dozens of synagogues, mostly in the New York area. In Teaneck, N.J., a suburb with dozens of synagogues, many have a police presence out front and CSS-trained congregants on patrol.
    Others have a closed-doors policy in which visitors must request entry through an intercom system.


    In recent years, more and more Jewish federations, the communitywide fundraising groups, have hired full-time security directors for their facilities and to advise their donor agencies. The Secure Community Network, the security arm of the Jewish Federations of North America and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, was formed in 2004. Since then, the number of federations with full-time security directors grew from two to 30, according to the Post.
    Federal money is available for beefing up security at Jewish institutions. In fiscal year 2018, Congress appropriated $50 million for nonprofit security through something called the Urban Area Security Initiative; much of the money goes to Jewish institutions.
    But many American synagogues, including Tree of Life, had been leaving their doors open on Shabbat — a scenario that became unthinkable years ago in Western Europe, where jihadists have carried out several deadly attacks in recent years on Jewish targets.
    Joel Rubinfeld, the president of the Belgian League Against Anti-Semitism, remembered feeling “simultaneously envious and worried” when he was greeted recently to a major New York synagogue by a concierge in his 70s — and no one else.
    Before 2015, even at-risk synagogues like the Grand Synagogue of Marseille, France, had lax security and at times open doors. But the attacks in Paris that year prompted all but the most distant synagogues of Western Europe to abandon the open-door policy they used to have.
    European synagogues by and large now employ a multilayered defensive doctrine of several threat circles in cooperation with law enforcement.
    “It accounts for all kinds of scenarios, not just a shooting but also a car bomb, firebombs and snipers,” Revach said.
    Each scenario requires building adjustments, sometimes just adding a security barrier and at other times replacing windows with bulletproof glass. Then there’s the need to set up international, national and regional situation rooms to help communities coordinate their activities.
    “Just setting up the physical elements … takes years,” Revach said.
    If American Jewry quickly ups the security arrangements around its institutions, “there’s still the issue of awareness,” said Sammy Ghozlan, a retired police commissioner and the president of the National Bureau for Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism in France.
    “It’s not enough to build security,” he said. “You need a community that’s drilled at maintaining it even when nothing happens year after year, so that when the threat does appear, it is met. It needs to be hardwired into you.”
    American Jewry is facing a “monumental challenge” if it seeks to adopt the European security model, Ghozlan said.
    “It will take them at least 15 years,” he said, noting that American Jewry is “far larger and more far-flung” than its European counterpart, making the task more complicated than in France.
    Ghozlan nonetheless believes that American Jews will rise to the challenge.
    “We are witnessing a Europeanization of the situation in the United States for Jews,” he said. “It takes time for a worldview to change, but I believe American Jews have the resources and resourcefulness to fix the security problems exposed in Pittsburgh.”

    https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...-took-decades/



    Nothing more than hypocrisy from someone, in which country even christians can't live together without being separated by high walls.

    I'm definitely out of this antimuslim and antigerman propaganda thread.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; June 15, 2019 at 03:36 PM.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


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