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Thread: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

  1. #21

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    In my 2.35 campaigns, Gauls is a battleground for Rome, Sweboz, Pritanoi and the Celtiberians. Aedui and Arverni can't catch a break.
    Gaul is one big battle ground in my 2.3 Rome campaign as well. It seems a bit ahistorical, especially with the Iberian peoples aggressively pushing into Gaul. Then again, there were intertribal clashes in history and having all Celtic nations under one banner would make another kind of ahistorical situation and ruin the game's balance in the process.

    The result of all the conflict is that there have been very few incursions into my territory form that direction as they are fighting it out constantly. At one point they sent assassins, but I guess they cannot afford them anymore.

    So I can just mind my business up north and in the east and concentrate on infrastructure with very few conflicts going on at any given time. I am counting that if things get tough, Rome will have enough development done to last many turns of military spending before stagnating economically. Playing too aggressively with Rome is something of an exploit anyway.

  2. #22

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    I would say it is different in each game, which is yet another testament to EB 2 team's skills - no one playthrough is the same. My Rome playthrough for example features Pritanoi as the ones being invaded by Aedui who had two cities on the British Isles at one point. Meanwhile Seleucids have always gotten ripped apart in ALL of my games without my interference, but I can see that's not always how it happens for other people.

  3. #23

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Has the invasion started?
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  4. #24

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    I was going to look this thread up and express my interest in learning how it went, but good old Rad beat me to it.

  5. #25

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    This is the largest invasion in the history of TW games. No way I'm not seeing this through
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  6. #26

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    This is the largest invasion in the history of TW games. No way I'm not seeing this through
    I hear you. To be honest, I genuinely thought at first glance that Dooz' setup is somehow fabricated and not the result of the natural course of a campaign. I have thought about the economics and logistics of that kind of operation a couple of times since, and I bet takes some actual work and effort from a human player to transport that kind of force to one side of the empire.

  7. #27

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    In a different mod, I invaded a continent with 12 full stacks. Training them, the navy required to transport them safely and the agents that helped pave the way was a huge task. Assembling them into one cohesive force and having them land simultaneously was another huge task, especially since the map is rather big - huge travel distances. After all that, the fight started

    Here's a pre-landing screenshot.
    Ten fleets packed with armies formed the main convoy. Two others were off raiding the coast in order to lead away the defenders and weaken their ability to summon reinforcements.

    A - training area
    B - assembly area
    C - invasion area
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by Rad; June 24, 2019 at 11:31 AM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  8. #28

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    In a different mod, I invaded a continent with 12 full stacks.
    Nice, thanks for sharing! The defenders seem numerous; good thing you were only facing some kind of weirdos in blue pajamas. Otherwise it would have been even scarier to jump into the fray.

  9. #29

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    The weirdos are my priests lol. I was trying to preach the word of the Holy Light to the ice trolls
    Last edited by Rad; June 24, 2019 at 11:46 AM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Thanks for checking in, guys. Indeed, the invasion has begun. The two southern strongholds were besieged by a double-stack each the same winter, with the rest of the three double-stacks landing and besieging northern settlement the following spring. Here is how it stands as of Summer 79 B.C.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I gotta say, I immediately regretted not setting up blocking armies in the northwestern chokepoints where Pritanoi forces have been moving up towards. I kinda hoped they'd linger down south longer, but soon as the northern armies landed they began moving that way. Now it's too late to take the two particular points I had in mind, not sure how I'll proceed. I'm thinking I'll assault and take the northern town, or maybe just two of them... Really don't know.

    Far as legitimacy, I can assure you it's real... all too real. Took so long to figure out and plan and execute just the recruiting, mustering and transportation alone that I shudder to think of the life I've wasted in this campaign. I have screenshots documenting every step of the process, because I'm insane. Regarding the economics, I had somewhere around 350k in reserve before recruitment began, built up over a few years of peace after destroying Carthage, and with no standing armies and a strong economy (buoyed by highest able tax rate across the empire). My current income with the 10 standing armies is around 15k/turn, and a double-stack costs right around there to maintain (8.4k heavy, 6.2k light, plus a bit for generals). I've been looking to disband any garrison units throughout the empire I can manage so I can recruit another double-stack to bring into the theater and not go bankrupt doing so. Though another couple of fleets for transporting them on top of that and, it's gonna be a close shave...

    Recruitment/mustering itself took several years. I recruited specific units from specific regions for roleplay-type purposes. Cavalry and Phalanxes were from my three Dynastic Government regions of Makedonia, Thessaly, and Epirus. The regular spearmen were all from southern greek states of Aetolia, Athens, Korinth and Sparta. And the Thracian swords, Illyrian light infantry and cavalry, Bosporan and Kretan archers of course were from their respective territories, spread evenly across available recruit pools. Here's some demographic info for any other statistic/logistics nerds like me...
    Spoiler for Heavy Corps. demographics
    Heavy Corps.
    Makedonia - 5,840
    1x Lonchophoroi Hippeis / 2x Phalangitai
    Thessalia - 4,420
    2x Hippeis Thessalikoi / 1x Phalangitai
    Epeiros - 3,420
    1x Lonchophoroi Hippeis / 1x Phalangitai
    Aetolia - 1,620
    1x Thorakitai
    Athenai - 1,620
    1x Thorakitai
    Korinthos - 1,620
    1x Thorakitai
    Sparte - 1,620
    1x Thorakitai
    Byzantion - 3,240
    2x Katoikoi Thraikes
    Histria - 3,240
    2x Katoikoi Thraikes
    Olbia - 1,600
    1x Thureopherontes Toxotai
    Khersonesos - 1,600
    1x Thureopherontes Toxotai
    Pantikapaion - 1,600
    1x Thureopherontes Toxotai
    Spoiler for Demographics totals
    58.5k Makedonians (2 phalanx units, one cav unit per army)
    34.2k Thessalians (1 phalanx unit per army, plus two Thessalian heavy cav units per heavy corps. no cav in light corps.)
    34.3k Epirotes (1 phalanx unit, one cav unit per army)
    64.8k Southern Greeks (16.2k from each with one spearmen unit per army each)
    53.5k Thracians (heavy and light swords, plus light cav for the light corps.)
    21.1k Illyrians (light infantry and cavalry for light corps.)
    24k Bosporans (8k archers from each of three northern Bosporan territories for heavy corps.)
    24k Kretans (archers for light corps.)
    I hope to put in some more time to edit together recruitment screenshots at some point, but here's one of the final mustering grounds in the Peleponnese just before boarding and setting sail. These are all grouped together by area of recruitment, before I split them up into my standardized armies, heavy and light. The + means they were recruited from several territories around there and coalesced.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    But I gotta say (apologetically), there is no guarantee I actually see this through all the way, and if I do it could take a long time and be a long way away... I hope you'll just sort of forget about it, and if there happen to be any updates they'll come as a welcome surprise down the line.

  11. #31

    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    I gotta say, I immediately regretted not setting up blocking armies in the northwestern chokepoints where Pritanoi forces have been moving up towards.
    Thanks, Dooz, for taking the trouble and giving us such a detailed update. I gave some serious thought to the chokepoint suggestions that people were giving earlier in the thread and found them useful, but something tells me I would not have followed them through as carefully as I should. I probably would have gone too gung-ho into it to truly play it safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    Far as legitimacy, I can assure you it's real... all too real. Took so long to figure out and plan and execute just the recruiting, mustering and transportation alone that I shudder to think of the life I've wasted in this campaign. I have screenshots documenting every step of the process, because I'm insane.
    You are in like-minded company. I fill notebooks documenting the history of my realm. Important battles and their outcomes, strategic concerns, major role-playing decisions, and the like. Pretty insane by someone's standards, no doubt, but to me it enhances the immersion and gratification in the game and helps out when I need to get back into business after a longer pause in playing. A person past his youth who is working for a living cannot necessarily allocate time for a single game every night or even every week, as it is in my case.

    Speaking of which, nothing in your writing suggests that you are particularly young. Still, as a person in his 40s, I seize the opportunity to express my opinion that spending time in something that interests you, makes you exercise your wit and imagination and fuels your interest in history and understanding of our world is most emphatically NOT wasting your life. Provided you have some kind of balance in between enjoying historical simulations and work or caring for people around you. You need your down time, and this is not the worst way to get that. Family and acquaintances in my parents' generation have been quite hostile towards gaming and even more so as I have grown older. They shake their heads if I mention playing computer games yet themselves spend hours each evening watching whatever useless crap just happens to be on TV. Looking back now, I am happy for all the free time I spent staging battles and managing a state in an imaginary world instead of watching some nitwits and bimbos in "reality" shows.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    Regarding the economics
    It is curious to read of that kind of management for someone who has worked hard to keep every settlement green and happy, invest everything in infrastructure and struggling to raise armies. Maybe it has to do with your advanced stage of campaing and losing any other incentive to go on with the campaign. Nevertheless, one of the attractive qualities of this mod seems to be that one can play successfully in so many different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    But I gotta say (apologetically), there is no guarantee I actually see this through all the way, and if I do it could take a long time and be a long way away... I hope you'll just sort of forget about it, and if there happen to be any updates they'll come as a welcome surprise down the line.
    I appreciate all your trouble in describing the grande finale of your campaign. If you find the time to finish it, we are here to listen!

  12. #32
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    Hey Dooz. Sorry to hear that you're literally insane. I had a feeling that was the case, not just with the OCD stuff, but also the strange summaries you would give where it seemed like you relished in the virtual genocide of the civilian populations you conquered (not just besting the enemy armies and enslaving the prisoners of war).

    Also, sorry to hear that you are considering not seeing this through. See it through, Dooz! See it through...for us.

    On another note, it's great that you use a lot of Thureopherontes Toxotai archer infantry from the Pontic Steppe region in the northern half of the Black Sea, but what about the horse archer variant, the Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai? Do you not use them at all? Or did you just decide not to bring them to this particular invasion? Kind of like how you only used elite Hypaspistai and Agema Phalangitai for the personal royal escort of your king?

  13. #33
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    Default Re: The War Council is hereby convened - Invasion: Britannia

    @Septentrionalis
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I gave some serious thought to the chokepoint suggestions that people were giving earlier in the thread and found them useful, but something tells me I would not have followed them through as carefully as I should. I probably would have gone too gung-ho into it to truly play it safe.
    I'm most annoyed at myself for this because one of my two initial invasion plans I posted was all chokepoint-centric. If you look at the screenshot for Operation: Zeus' Hammer, all the landing spots in the northwest are exactly the areas where the enemy is now moving up through. They would have already been blocked, maybe even seen some battles if they decided to attack. All were chosen due to not allowing enemy forces to be able to attack with more than 2 maybe 3 armies at a time. I think I must have just gotten impatient or I really don't know what I was thinking when I decided to land as I did... all this planning and effort, possibly blown with the stroke of a key...

    You are in like-minded company. I fill notebooks documenting the history of my realm. Important battles and their outcomes, strategic concerns, major role-playing decisions, and the like. Pretty insane by someone's standards, no doubt, but to me it enhances the immersion and gratification in the game and helps out when I need to get back into business after a longer pause in playing. A person past his youth who is working for a living cannot necessarily allocate time for a single game every night or even every week, as it is in my case.
    I love it. I would be interested to see some of what you have, if you have any posts detailing such things. And far as helping getting back into the swing of things, that's the biggest reason I think this campaign has been in progress going on three years now. Usually, after long pauses (months), I forgot too much and am not as motivated to keep going, and that's been a major factor in moving onto a new campaign in the past. This time, since I had so many screenshots and notes of every major (and most minor) development, I would take a few days just to go through them, sort of like faux-history lesson, and would be more amped to go right back into than ever, picking up right where I left off. It's been the most gratifying total war experience for me to date, so thanks again for that EB2 team.

    Speaking of which, nothing in your writing suggests that you are particularly young. Still, as a person in his 40s, I seize the opportunity to express my opinion that spending time in something that interests you, makes you exercise your wit and imagination and fuels your interest in history and understanding of our world is most emphatically NOT wasting your life. Provided you have some kind of balance in between enjoying historical simulations and work or caring for people around you. You need your down time, and this is not the worst way to get that. Family and acquaintances in my parents' generation have been quite hostile towards gaming and even more so as I have grown older. They shake their heads if I mention playing computer games yet themselves spend hours each evening watching whatever useless crap just happens to be on TV. Looking back now, I am happy for all the free time I spent staging battles and managing a state in an imaginary world instead of watching some nitwits and bimbos in "reality" shows.
    I'm 30's myself, and appreciate your comments. The problem is, I have not been exercising good judgment and balance and in fact have been spending unhealthy amounts of time on distractions, to my personal detriment. I didn't mean to imply that all gaming by any adult is a waste of life, just meant how I've been going about it has been for me. I have no shame or qualms about my love of gaming itself, as opposed to watching tv or whatever, only in how I've used it to distract myself from real life and the things that actually matter (beyond leisure time and enjoying how I spend it).

    It is curious to read of that kind of management for someone who has worked hard to keep every settlement green and happy, invest everything in infrastructure and struggling to raise armies. Maybe it has to do with your advanced stage of campaing and losing any other incentive to go on with the campaign. Nevertheless, one of the attractive qualities of this mod seems to be that one can play successfully in so many different ways.
    Getting the economy to this point has been 150 years coming. For most of the campaign, I was much the same. Lowest taxes, priority on growing settlements and happiness. But as the empire grows, so do the evils of man. Is part of the roleplay rationale. The other part, the practical part, is that I had grown my core cities, and quite a few outer-core ones to Huge status, and had no reason to keep their population growing. In fact, I had reason to keep them stable because of disease outbreaks when they got to huge, and the possible spread of the contagion and all those concerns. On top of that, I initially had about 10 or so "outer-core" settlements that were Supervised Hellenic Administrations, which allowed me to build everything available as they got to Huge status, which in turn helped economy and public order.

    Relatively recently, as part of this huge roleplay/gameplay revolution that happened, where my first non-father-son lineage King came to power (I was at first distraught, then I noticed all his traits and ancillaries were about what a great liar he is, with actors and orators at his side, so I went with the story that he conned and defrauded his way into power), I had massive reforms. These included military, where I now allowed myself to retrain units and keep standing armies after finally building higher level colony buildings in my main areas enfranchising citizens, and also turning the outer-core settlements into allied territories which allowed me to disband many of the garrisoned units, saving thousands and tens-of-thousands on upkeep per turn. The economic benefit of that move was huge. I suddenly went from barely breaking even, to a massive surplus. This all happened just before the war with Carthage, so pretty recent developments.

    And at that point, the evil empire was in full swing. I bumped taxes as high as they would go all throughout, including all the allied territories. Nobody outside my core and outer-core regions are happy. And the Emperor don't care. We have wars to run, militaries to feed (Makedonia is now a fully fledged military culture and empire, everyone goes into training at 16 and all men from 20 are conscripted into the armies, but given land in return as part of the great land reforms which reverted ownership from tiny percentage of the superwealthy, to everyone who fights). The main place my money goes, other than military, has been when I save up for other periods of great reforms, for things like education or roads or military/land reforms. Meaning, I don't build, say, the Academy in allied territories soon as I can. I save them up, until a bunch of settlements in a given region can now build it, then in one fell swoop I build it in all of them. Depending on the level of building in question, these can get very, very expensive. I remember construction costs of I think almost or around/above 200k for one project across the empire...

    I appreciate all your trouble in describing the grande finale of your campaign. If you find the time to finish it, we are here to listen!
    And I certainly appreciate your comments and understanding and support.

    @Roma_Victrix
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Hey Dooz. Sorry to hear that you're literally insane. I had a feeling that was the case, not just with the OCD stuff, but also the strange summaries you would give where it seemed like you relished in the virtual genocide of the civilian populations you conquered (not just besting the enemy armies and enslaving the prisoners of war).
    Ah, the genocide of whole peoples is a relatively new development. See "evil empire" above. In fact, the war with Carthage was the first time I ever used the Enslave option at all, and it was partly roleplay and partly gameplay inspired. Needless to say, there's no going back now. When you rule half the world, you didn't get there through flowers and candy, nor will you stay there with such. It's all evil all the way now. Mass slavery, military conscription, death and destruction is the order of the day. The year. The life.

    Also, sorry to hear that you are considering not seeing this through. See it through, Dooz! See it through...for us.
    It's not that I'm considering it, I just recognize that it's a very real possibility. To go with the insanity, I play battles at 0.1 or 0.2 speed for the most part. They take between 2-5 hours, and I have never and will not autoresolve any battles this campaign (including one unit skirmishes). I have what looks to be well over 50 battles ahead of me on the island, and that's not counting all the time that goes into planning, empire-maintenance, rebel battles, etc.... YOU do the math.

    On another note, it's great that you use a lot of Thureopherontes Toxotai archer infantry from the Pontic Steppe region in the northern half of the Black Sea, but what about the horse archer variant, the Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai? Do you not use them at all? Or did you just decide not to bring them to this particular invasion? Kind of like how you only used elite Hypaspistai and Agema Phalangitai for the personal royal escort of your king?
    If I had a Total War trait under my avatar, it'd be "Infantry Commander". It's where my heart lies. Hence the love of the phalanx I think. The purest form of a mass infantry formation, and looks awesome as hell to boot. But no, the only time I've ever used the horse archers is in those areas for rebel battles. The only time I focused on cavalry at all (other than of course the classic hammer-anvil I use in every battle), was during the second war with the Sarumatae. Though my main army was mostly like the ones here, standard Makedonian fare, I had my king's brother recruit and roll through with an all cavalry fullstack, where each unit was different. Just for funsies. I definitely prefer infantry, though. :p

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