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Thread: Local recruitment and limits

  1. #1
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Local recruitment and limits

    In my mod, SWO-RD, I have put in place some mechanism to allow recruiting units with heraldry in specific provinces.

    The main goals are:
    - To allow more flavour, and give units with their local heraldry and colours. Meaning that whatever your faction, you have the option to get Eataine heraldry when recruiting units in Eataine, Yvresse heraldry when recruiting in Yvresse, etc.
    - To make the "core" provinces more interesting: for HE, heraldic units for Eataine are better than generic units recruiting in the Southlands. This to help a race protect its "natural" provinces, and make it a bit harder to expand to the territories of other races.

    Now, I'd like to discuss several ways to handle these, See what you think is the best approach, or if you have other ideas about local recruitment, unit limits, etc.

    Not directly link to the mod, but as general concepts for the recruitment in the Total War games.


    For rest of the world provinces
    First, outside of your race provinces, you can only recruit generic units (no specific heraldry, just your faction colours).
    Exemple: HE can only recruit generic units outside of Ulthuan

    For this units, I can see several options:

    - They have no limit. You can recruit as many as you want as long as you can afford the cost

    - Only some units are limited. Limit is based on a building. Base units are not limited.
    Exemple: HE can recruit as many spearmen or archers as they want, but they can only recruit one star dragon for each dragon building they have

    - Every unit is capped. Limit is based on a building or a settlement.
    Exemple: HE can recruit 5 spearmen for each barracks level they have, or 5 spearmen for each settlement level they have.

    For racial provinces
    These are in the provinces "natural" to your race (i.e. UIthuan province for HE, Lustria for Lizardmen...)

    - Only heraldic units are allowed. No limit.
    Exemple: HE can recruit Eataine spearmen in Eataine, as many as they want. But they can recruit generic units


    - Only heraldic units are allowed, with a cap
    Exemple: HE can recruit Eataine spearmen in Eataine, but they are limited to 20 (or 5 for each barracks level, or 5 for each settlement level in these province. If they want more units, they have to control another province (Yvresse for exemple

    - Heraldic units are allowed, with a cap. Generic units are also allowed, with no cap
    Exemple: HE can recruit Eataine spearmen in Eataine, but they are limited to 20 (or 5 for each barracks level, or 5 for each settlement level in these province. If they wan more units, they can still recruit generic units in Eataine, with no limits (and they will be slightly weaker than heraldic units


    - Heraldic units are allowed, with a cap. Generic units are also allowed, with a cap
    Exemple: HE can recruit Eataine spearmen in Eataine, but they are limited to 20 (or 5 for each barracks level, or 5 for each settlement level in these province. If they wan more units, they can still recruit generic units in Eataine, but the total number of generic units is limited also, and this glogal limits is shared: with only control of Eataine, you may have 10 generic spearmen, and if you control 5 provinces, you may have 50 spearmen


    Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

  2. #2
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    All your options are atractive indeed. I would say no caps except for elite units where is appropriate.

    On Nuln you could train regular hallabards and handgunners, but also Nuln guard and Nuln Ironsides, which should be not caped but expensier and require higher tier buildings.
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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    Actually, I have now a new concept... Manpower.

    - Duplicated buildings for each province are gone. There is now only one barracks buildable in every region. This barracks grant the generic units, and also all the heraldic units.
    - Heraldic units will be limited to a specific region via a resource system.
    - Some very region specific units, like the Swordmasters of Hoeth, will be linked to a landmarks, with a unit capacity linked to the level of the said landmark.
    - Monsters, Cannon, Tanks, will have a unit capacity linked to the levels of the building allowing their recruitment. For exemple, the capacity of Star Dragons will be +1 for every tier 5 dragon building.
    - For basic units non-monsters units (infantry, cavalry), there will be a kind of manpower mechanism, working with script.
    -- At the beginning of each turn, the script will check your settlements and some buildings to compute the "manpower" for this turn. This will affect the unit capacity.
    -- Each settlement will contribute to a global manpower, a provincial manpower, and sometimes a regional manpower.

    Here is an example for the Empire (numerical values are just for exemple)
    - Each settlement level in Altdorf will gives +5 core units(spearmen, swordmen, crossbowmen), +2 special units (greatswords, outriders), +1 rare units (demigryph). Altdorf will contributes to the global manpower, the Reikland provincial manpower, and the Altdorf regional manpower.
    - Each settlement level in Grunburg, will give the same +5, +2, +1, but contribute to the global manpower, the Reikland provincial manpower, but no regional manpower.
    - Each settlement level outside of the Empire will give the same +5, +2, +1, but only to the global manpower.

    So, if you control Altdorf (level 3), Grunburg (level 2), Carroburg (level 2), and Artois + Gisoreux (each level 1), and nothing else, you would have:
    From Altdorf:
    - Global: 15 core, 6 special, 3 rare
    - Reikland: 15 core, 6 special, 3 rare
    - Altdorf: 15 core, 6 special, 3 rare
    From Grunburg:
    - Global: 10 core, 4 special, 2 rare
    - Reikland: 10 core, 4 special, 2 rare
    From Carroburg:
    - Global: 10 core, 4 special, 2 rare
    - Middenland: 10 core, 4 special, 2 rare
    From Artois:
    - Global: 5 core, 3 special, 1 rare
    From Gisoreux:
    - Global: 5 core, 3 special, 1 rare

    Total:
    - Global: 45 core, 20 special, 9 rare
    - Reikland: 25 core, 10 special, 5 rare
    - Middenland: 10 core, 4 special, 2 rare
    - Altdorf: 15 core, 6 special, 3 rare

    So you have 25 Reikland spearmen, 25 crossbowmen, 10 greatswords or 10 halberdiers.
    To have a bigger army, you'll need to recruit generic unit (up to 45 additional spearmen).

    Want a bigger army? Upgrade your settlements, or capture new one.

    This will also limit doomstack, due to the global limits to special or rare units. And even force some spreading of chaff units: number of spearmen and swordmen are limited, so to have many armies, you'll need to have spearmen and swordmen.

    The system maybe refined with some add

  4. #4
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    In fact I was tthinking about how with resources as manpower or weapons, horses and so arbitrary limits aren't necesary because you'll find natural limits.
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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    Except resources are not really consumable, and forcing cavalry to be available only in region with horses for example, it would be very unbalanced.

    OR maybe you had in mind something different from what I imagine?

  6. #6
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    Yes, I envision resources as manpower in the Empire mod Proper Empire. Ie a forge that produces x ammount of weapons/shields/armor per turn. Lets say it the lowest level produces 200 weaponws per turn. You can recruit up to 200 armed men, lets say 2 units of 100 men per turn, given you have also the manpower. Any excedents can be either stored or traded away, or a bit of both.

    What if you don't have the building? Well you could have a base production that could represent the private smiths and entrepreneurs that make weapons or rise horses by themselves. Some regions could have bonuses to this base production depending on the lore and local resources. The bigger the city the larger this base would be and perhaps with enough big cities you don't need to have those buildings at all. However then recruiting could have a tad penalty on gold represeting the purchase of the goods to the local merchants and artisans.

    Or you could trade with a faction that does makes the goods (trading guns with the dwarves comes to mind). Or in a pinch refuse to pay the local business but deal with the unrest and/or taxes penalties.

    Building this producing buldings would give the advantage of you controling the quality and having a large surplus of goods so you can make a profit from them or raise large armies quickly.

    Having access to special resources, say meteoric iron, would give bonuses to the weapons/armor made with it, on top of any bonuses given by the expertice (level of the building or character traits). Or perhaps an increase in the production.

    Maybe a way to compensate and discourage the making of this buildings everywhere could be a bigger upkeep the further is away from the resouces needed (logistical expenditures) so you dont end up with weapon forges everywhere and they are concentrated on areas next to the resources or/and expertise like in real life.

    This could allow Nuln to really be the armoury of the empire in a campaing and make far more interesting the conquest of places with large deposits of this resources.

    It would need however to have this "resources", weapons, steads and manpower basically as secondary treasury. Your idea if far more easier to script and implement I think.
    Last edited by Lord Baal; October 22, 2019 at 02:41 PM.
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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    This is interesting in theory, but would probably require a strong involvement of CA in an engine update. I don't think it is moddable with the tool we have at the moment, while my manpower solution is actually working.

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    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    This is not based on resource consumption as you suggested.


    Actually, this is the base system I'm using, with a global capacity for each unit (the "core" "special" "rage" is just a way to classify the units). This is based on the building you have. This means that if you want to fine tune it, you need to add more buildings. With many side effects. For exemple, if you want a regional recruitment system with limits, you need to make a barracks for Reikland, a barracks for Averland, etc. This increase the table significantly, and has nasty side effect. Like if the building is required by a tech, or as secondary building.

    My system is different: I have a global limit to, but it is manage via scripted effect bundle. Meaning it can work with only the basic buildings, without attaching effects directly to the building.

  10. #10
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Local recruitment and limits

    Yes, I linked it because it seems on the surface similar to what you are intending to do.

    I know it's a fantasy game with dragons, zombies and ratmen fighting lizarmen and wizards of all kind, but I would love to top that challenge with the plus of supply and real strategy in general. I feel CA abstracts too much on the campaign department and thus the campaigns become boring before soon (at least for me in the older games).

    But a supply/manpower system like APE: TI isn't possible for Warhammer? If so then in theory something like I'm thinking could be implement, at least a simpler version. I'll be years however before I can factually play this game and I hope Warhammer 3 brings all sorts of things like real naval battles and other stuff. Maybe I'm lucky and by the time I get to play it someone has made the "realistic" mod I'm looking for.
    Last edited by Lord Baal; October 24, 2019 at 12:21 PM.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
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